I'm sure at some time there was more than one, but Taronga doesn't have room to keep a second group separate. They would have all been in together.
I believe they were together, as she was attacked by both.
Hix
Taronga Zoo Recent history of Taronga and developments etc
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I'm sure at some time there was more than one, but Taronga doesn't have room to keep a second group separate. They would have all been in together.
I believe they were together, as she was attacked by both.
Hix
I'm sure at some time there was more than one, but Taronga doesn't have room to keep a second group separate. They would have all been in together.
I believe they were together, as she was attacked by both.
Hix
Oh so Victoria Scrivener was attacked by both Tigers. I thought it was just Meta who forced the gate open when poor Victoria had the cubs seperate for a moment to photograph them.
Yeah after learning from you about 3-4 years ago that the Sumatran Tigers had been kept on what I first knew as the 'Jungle Cats' (Cats of Asia would have been a better name). I only got a better look at the foundational limegreen walls when I revisited the exhibit in the spring of '97 (when Mr and Mrs B. the Zoos resident Binturongs were temporarily in the Golden Cat enclosure for about three or four months and the Golden Cat/s temporily in the 'Dog Row' enclosure between the Fennec Foxes and Dholes). But when I saw the outer walls of the 'Jungle Cats' exhibit I thought they looked historically impressive but perhaps not as old as I thought back then (I gather the exhibit was constructed sometime in the 60s or 70s so would have always been Meta and Nico's residence from 1979-1992. My recollection is there were still Northern Palm Squirrels in the aviary enclosure between and the Shrews came later (like I said the idea of having a third cat exhibit had left my mind on this second visit, would be very hypocritical of me to have still thought it was a good idea when I just criticised the Clouded Leopard enclosure lol). Incidently I had no idea what species of Squirrels were there, I was enlightened about them on this thread. I just remember at some point it became Tree Shrews. I'm developing much more of an interest in squirrel species thanks posts i've read on this site.
I read a heritage report from May 2015 from the Taronga Conservation Society just now (really interesting, didnt know about the Aboriginal engravings between the two lower roads in the south-west corner of the zoo).
But it was explaining what Hix had already told me about a few years back. The remodelling of the Lion and Tiger pits between 1991 and 1993. So the Tiger pit (c.1939) was slightly lower than the Lion pit (c 1935) and the former mentioned was the first to be restructered with the mock rock arcades removed etc, upper walkways (waterhole road accessed from above) turned into greenery and the glass viewing windows created below on 'Dog Row' (again much of this Hix told me about in late 2016).
But what I didnt know was that Chester the White Tiger who arrived in late 1992 had his exhibit (former Tiger pit) established six months to a year before the adjacent Lion pit became the exhibit for Seletan and Shiva the Sumatran Tigers opened to the public sometime in 1993.
It was really interesting about the history of the Lion pit with the mock rock base shaped like Australia (again I first learned much of this from the photos and forums here from Hix and others) but what was interesting too was learning about how the brick area of pathways leading into the viewing bays of both Tiger exhibits had been the space that in the early 1920s had become the enclosures for Jaguars, Leopards and Pumas. And the westernmost and eastermost enclosures were later developed into a Lady's Room and Staff Office. The middle enclosure survived and was a Caracal exhibit until being re-structured into the afforementioned Clouded Leopard exhibit (now with the viewing section on the north side facing south whether as before it was the opposite). Hix told the three Pumas, Jaguarundi, Caracals and Servals that were exhibited where the Snow Leopard exhibit came to be in June 1990 next to Tahr mountain.
The report talks about the northern upper wall of the Lion pit having a viewing back once the viewing walkways around the pit became gardens. And to the left you could view Ali the Jaguar in (would say the Jaguars but Taronga emailed me last year to say Wendy died in 1988).
So from what I gather for maybe a year 1991-1992 the Asiatic Lions (albeit hybrids) who arrived in 1991 briefly lived in the old Lion pit until renovations began when they moved to the adjacent enclosure from which Ali the Jaguar moved to a wired exhibit on Dog row.
Were the Tigers kept in the Tiger pit until 1991 still labelled as 'Tigers' even in 1991? or were they 'Bengals' or Amur/Siberians?
When the second new Tiger exhibit was completed Seletan Shiva left the east side of the zoo (If Seletan arrived from Melbourne 1992 I'm guessing so would have lived in this exhibit for a while).
The Clouded Leopard who arrived in 1993 would have arrived with the former Caracal enclosure restructured and ready to inhabit (I take it the big majestic tree was planted for the new exhibit?)
If Hari and Nugi the Golden Cats arrived in December 1992 I wondered if construction on the 'Jungle Cats' was yet to happen or if Shiva was kept off display so construction could go ahead. Either way I was wondering if the Golden Cat brothers were kept in an enclosure on Dog Row in the intrum? (perhaps the same enclosure I saw them in when from mid 1997 their former 'Jungle Cats' enclosure was home to the Binturong pair Mrs and Mrs B, and then later on Clouded Leopard/s)
As I learned from the report, the former Peve Davids Deer enclosure next to the old Monkey and Orangutan cages became one of the Pygmy Hippo exhibits. So I take it the third Hippo exhibit I saw in 1994 was on this road. And perhaps what became the Malaysian Tapir exhibit in 1996 had been Ali the Black Jaguars exhibit until he died in '96 (I'd just assumed that the third Pygmy Hippo exhibit became the new Tapir exhibit in '96). I also didnt know that the first Dholes had been at Taronga since 1983!
Dakar, of course! I would have remembered it at some point (just not late at night!)
And Faye and Twiga are correct too. I knew there was another female starting with 'F' but all I could remember was Faith (who didn't live long). Dakar was renamed Charity to make up the trio of Faith, Hope and Charity. I always thought Dakar was a better name for him. A nice stately giraffe, a bit more aloof than the others. And a well-calcified skull.
Thanks for that.
Hix
Of course, makes perfect sense Water Dragons would be free roaming!
Hey Hix with the info i read that the Kodiak Bear exhibit wasnt renovated until 1999, did that mean between 1985 and 1999 that Barney lived seperate to Bethyl and Cynthia?
Also was wondering if for a period from '93-96/97 if Caracal(s) were still at Taronga Zoo (figured in the enclosure in 'Dog Row' between Fennec Foxes and Dholes/Ali the Black Jaguar?)
There’s an account of the 1988 tiger attack in the book The Keepers and the Kept.
Apparently the wrong slide door was shut, which allowed Meta access back into the den; Meta dragged Vicki out into the yard, where she was joined by Nico. The tigers were scared back into their dens by the keepers, but her injuries were sadly unsurvivable.
John Kelly - the newly appointed zoo director, asked Vicki’s parents if they wanted Meta put down. They refused, saying their daughter would have been appalled at the idea, given her love of animals; and the fact Meta was just acting on instinct to protect her cubs.
Meta died 20 months later in August 1990 at the age of 15 years. The cubs (a male and a female) were Meta’s sixth litter. The female died at three months of age; the male (Jambi) was sent to Wellington Zoo in 1992, where he died in 2001
It was one exhibit and all three were in it. However, for many years it was split in two by a fence separating Barney from the girls.
The 1994-95 Annual Report doesn't list caracals as being part of the collection, and the only image I have of caracals at Taronga is a photo I took in 1979, in an exhibit that is long gone now. I'm not sure exactly when the Caracals left.
Hix
I'm glad Meta wasn't euthanised considering she had newborn cubs. I wonder if they actually would have done this.
It’s hard to say. It’s possible the offer was made knowing the likelihood of it being accepted was low. The public outcry would have been huge.
That said, Taronga Zoo were open to handraising cubs - Lunka and Usha were handraised after being rejected by Meta three years earlier; and they would later handraise Kemiri.
Also from a practical perspective, Meta was at the end of her reproductive lifespan and wouldn’t be producing more cubs. The future of the breeding programme lay in the import of a new tigress to breed with her son.
I’ve always thought it was strange why the new tigress, Selatan (1990), was paired with the older tiger, Shiva (1985); not his younger brother, Jambi (1988), who was exported. I’d assumed the reason was because Shiva was laidback and easy to work with; but perhaps retaining Jambi would have served as a reminder of the incident for the keepers, who would have been close friends of Vicki.
Yeah so glad Vicky's parents were compassionate about Meta's maternal defense instincts. Yeah would Dr John Kelly really have allowed Meta to be euthanized that would be very extreme. I think Meta and Nico (not to mention their success rate of litters 1980-1988) would have to of been the oldest Sumatran pair I've heard of been parents again at the age of 12-13 they would of been at when Jambi and his sister were born. I've heard varying accounts of when they passed away but ZooFan15 puts it 20 months after the incident in August 1990 for Meta (aged 15) and former (Taronga reptile) keeper Terry Boylan's account from his book 'Keeper and the Kept' (thanks for reccomendation ZooFan15 btw) saying five years after the incident which would mean 1993. Originally I heard both Meta and Nico died the same year 1992 but I gather they never lived to make the move from their exhibit on the south-east side of the zoo to the new exhibit created from the renovated 'Lion pit' Shiva obviously was born in the old enclosure in 1985 and made the move when he was coupled up with 2-3 year old Seletan from Melbourne and Jambi moved to Wellington, NZ as ZooFan15 mentions above in 1992.
Wow Shiva must have been a laid back fella to have stayed with his parents until well after sexual maturity. He could of been sent elsewhere by the time Jambi was born three and a half years later. Even Jambi was what 3 and a half before he was moved on Wellington. Did Jambi end up being laid back like his older brother?
[QUOTE="Hix, post: 1201861,
The 1994-95 Annual Report doesn't list caracals as being part of the collection, and the only image I have of caracals at Taronga is a photo I took in 1979, in an exhibit that is long gone now. I'm not sure exactly when the Caracals left.
Hix[/QUOTE]
Hey Hix is there anywhere online to read the Taronga annual reports from the early 1990s?
The 1994-95 Annual Report doesn't list caracals as being part of the collection, and the only image I have of caracals at Taronga is a photo I took in 1979, in an exhibit that is long gone now. I'm not sure exactly when the Caracals left.
Hix[/QUOTE]
Hey Hix is there anywhere online to read the Taronga annual reports from the early 1990s?
[QUOTE="Hix, post: 1201861,
The 1994-95 Annual Report doesn't list caracals as being part of the collection, and the only image I have of caracals at Taronga is a photo I took in 1979, in an exhibit that is long gone now. I'm not sure exactly when the Caracals left.
Hix
Hey Hix is there anywhere online to read the Taronga annual reports from the early 1990s?[/QUOTE]
No Idea. I have hard copies. If you find them online please let me know as I'm missing several years.
Hix
No Idea. I have hard copies. If you find them online please let me know as I'm missing several years.
Hix[/QUOTE]
Will do! Hey I found an article on Google Scholar which is about analysing the impact of toxoplasmosis being transferred between the wild Brushtail Possums inhabiting the zoo and the felid species (still 6 at the time of the report finished 2008 but conducted possibly as early as 2002/2003) but also finding that several of the Chimps, all 3 of the Zoo's Dingoes Jack, Sally and Sugar had the antibodies of toxoplasma gondi.
With the felids the antibodies were found in Nugi the Golden Cat (m 12 yrs); Fiddle (f 5) and Pakikan (m 8) the Fishing Cats; Nonah (f 12) and Samar (m 13) the Clouded Leopards; Kuchani, Njeri and Shinyangi (f all aged 3) the African Lionesses; and two thirds of the Sumatran Tigers and Snow Leopards (with Sumatran Tigers Seletan (f 12) Shiva (m 17) were positive along with possibly two of their cubs, I think Assiqua (3) was clear as I wonder if she had only recently been imported to the zoo from France) and interesting enough it seems with the Snow Leopards Prafula (m 14) tested positive but Omaha (f 14) did not even though they had been at the zoo for the same amount of time.
One of the issues stated in the report was individual carnivores preying on Possums which managed to enter their enclosures. This is why the Chimps, Dingoes were also tested aswell as the two Leopard Seals Diesel (m 13) & Rove (m 1) aswell as the male and female Saltwater Crocodiles (aged and names not given or determined). The Crocodiles and Leopard Seals turned up nothing (I was curious if they tested the Crocs why they didnt with the American Alligators or perhaps Tuka the Komodo Dragon).
But skimming the report and seeings all 16 Chimpanzees were tested (with Jack aged 14 and female Spitter aged 46 returning positive to antibodies) I was reminded of the way Chimpanzees although omnivorous can be extremely violent to animals which happen upon their territory (like with other Chimps and Colobus, Guenon and Mangabey Monkeys in the wild and the Black-Backed Jackals with the ill-fated attempt to co-exhibit in the verly early 1980s)
According to the Sumatran tiger studbook, Nico and Meta’s details are as follows:
Nico (M)
Born at Rotterdam Zoo 12/04/1976
Arrived at Taronga Zoo 15/01/1979
Died at Taronga Zoo 02/05/1990
Meta (F)
Born at Rotterdam Zoo 25/04/1975
Arrived at Taronga Zoo 15/01/1979
Died at Taronga Zoo 08/08/1990
Shiva’s littermate was sent to San Diego Zoo in July 1987, when they were 22 months old. I’m guessing he was separated from Meta around this time. His father would have seen him as a threat by this age, so they would have to have been separated.
Jambi was just over four years old when he was sent to Wellington Zoo in December 1992. He would have been living alone since Meta died when he was 21 months old.
No, Jambi was a powerful and ferocious male by all accounts. He killed his first mate when they were introduced in 1993.
Taronga Zoo have never had a chimpanzee named Jack. If Spitter (born 1960) was 46 in this paper, the 14 year old male chimpanzee must have been born 1992 (give or take a year). The only male in the community in 2006 that was in this age bracket was Lubutu (born 1993).
Ok thanks ZooFan, I had wondered for a while when exactly Meta and Nico had died and now I know it was definitely 1990 for both of them. I take it the 'Big Cat House' (current Tassie Devil house) as Hix explained to me over three years ago was about four seperate rectangular yards with dens between. It sounds like Meta and Nico always shared an exhibit but I take it Shiva would have occupied his own yard obviously and by the time Jambi was mature enough to be on his own he lost both his parents around that time so would have occupied their old enclosure until his move in 1992.
What I've been trying to establish as also being really interested in the specific historical details of the Zoos I'm most familiar with (Mogo, Perth, Taronga & Western Plain) is what year the renovations to turn the 'Big Cat House/first Sumatran Tiger exhibits' into the 'Jungle Cats' happened. I keep wondering if it was in fact 1993 ? This was the year apparently Shiva and Seletans new exhibit ajacent to Chester's and the Clouded Leopard(s) was complete (along with the Clouded Leopards exhibit), also 1993 was the year Ali the Black Jaguar's former exhibit became the (hybrid) Asiatic Lion exhibit. Obviously Ali would have moved to the enclosure I first saw him in (in 1994) on 'Dog Row' in order for his previous enclosure to be renovated for the Lions who would have moved from the old 'Lion pit' in order for it to be renovated into Seletan and Shiva's exhibit. I can't find any old archive press releases about when Seletan and Shiva's exhibit was completed but based on a press release stating 1993 was when the new Lion exhibit was opened and the records stating Clouded Leopar(s) came to TZ first in 1993 I had guessed it was late 1993 that this second phase of 'Cats of Asia' was completed. Chester the White Tiger obviously had his exhibit 'phase one' completed in 1991 or 1992.
I imagine that restructuring of the old Sumatran Tiger exhibit/s would of course taken place after Seletan and Shiva were moved to their new home but now I wonder if I in fact saw Hari and Nugi the Golden Cats & the Fishing Cat (possibly Pakikan) in 1995 and not 1994 (very possible I've muddled my memory). I was curious too if this meant that when Hari and Nugi arrived at TZ in December 1992 they in fact were housed possibly one of the enclosures on 'Dog Row' next to the Fennec Foxes, Ali Jaguar and Dholes? (I would later see them in this exhibit circa 1997 and 1998 when the Binturong pair moved into their 'Jungle Cat' exhibit and shortly after the Clouded Leopard pair, it wouldn't be until a bit later on sometime between 1999 and 2002 that I would see Golden Cats back in the easternmost 'Jungle Cats' exhibit again).
Apologies I know this is all incredibly specific semantics but I am very interested (my aspergers is showing again lol) in the finer details of when and where individuals animals and species were moved to during the Zoo's restructurings. Also thanks for the details on Meta and Nico as I enjoy knowing when, where and how the individual animals lived, moved, reproduced etc.
''The 1994-95 Annual Report doesn't list caracals as being part of the collection, and the only image I have of caracals at Taronga is a photo I took in 1979, in an exhibit that is long gone now. I'm not sure exactly when the Caracals left.''
Hix
Hey Hix I was wondering if in the 1994-1995 annual report was there a mention of Fishing Cats being at TZ by then and if there was any mention of the 'Jungle Cats' exhibit being completed during that financial year??
Ok that makes sense as Jack sounds like the sort of name a Chimpanzee would have been given in the 1950s or 60s not for an individual born in the 1990s. I'm afraid I really need to brush up on my knowledge of the Chimpanzee individuals of TZ's Chimpanzee Park. Is it possible that the report wrongly identified Lubutu as 'Jack'. A keeper in 1995 told me Tuka the Komodo Dragons name was Keith when in fact the long lived Keith had passed in 1991 so obviously this keeper wasnt use to having Tuka as the new dragon. Not the best example in comparison to the Lubutu/Jack mix-up as with the Komodo Dragon scenario their had been a Keith only four years before but no Jack the Chimp. Also with this report the ages of animals vary as if to give the idea that the tests would have been conducted bewteeen 2002 and 2006 not just over the course of one year (i.e Seletan was 12 in 2002 and Shiva was 17 in 2002).
I saw Lubutu in the TZ documentary in 2010/2011/2012? he was the new dominant male or was the right hand Chimp of the dominant male I think. It was sad as in that documentary one of the young males was euthanized due to poor health. I also remember graceful old Lulu in that doco. It was when they were moving back to newly renovated Chimp park from their temporary home in the (1993 built) hybrid Orangutan exhibit. I was always curious too where Jantan and Willow were housed during that time (my first guess would be the indoor Orang exhibit opposite the outdoor one the Chimps took over for a while)
Taronga Zoo has never had a chimpanzee called Jack - past or present. Shabani (born 1994) was renamed, but his previous name wasn’t Jack. Generally speaking, all chimpanzees born from the mid 1970’s onwards were given names that started with the same initial as their mother’s name - and there was no J family.
Assuming the report didn’t make a mistake (is it available online?) the only thing I can think of is that Taronga Zoo does that double name thing that Melbourne Zoo do. As far as I’m aware, they don’t.
That would have been the first series of Wildlife at the Zoo (2011). Lubutu (1993-2019) was the dominant male, and had been since 2001; with the support of Chimbuka (1995-2011) as his right hand man. Chimbuka was the adolescent male who died in that doco. After Chimbuka’s death, Samaki (2001) took over as Lubutu’s right hand man. Since Lubutu’s death, the alpha role has been up in the air.
Lulu (1952-2014) was Lubutu’s grandmother. Lulu’s daughter, Lisa (1979) had Lobo (1989-1996), Lubutu (1993-2019), Lani (2002) and Liwali (2014). They are the L family.
I’ve uploaded the records of the chimpanzee families in this thread: Chimpanzee Troop [Taronga Zoo]
Susie’s line = Post #121
Bessie’s line = Post #128
Biddy’s line = Post #136
Fifi’s line = Post #137
Mary’s line = Post #140
Lulu’s line = Post #146
Koko’s line = Post #160
Oh cool thanks ZooFan (yeah its available online do you want me to send the link?), I fully believed you when you said their was no Chimpanzee named Jack. I remember now learning that the Chimp families go by a letter.
Jack was one of the Dingos, not one of the Chimpanzees.