Red deer won't cross former iron curtain

S

Shirokuma

Well-Known Member
Deer still stuck behind Iron Curtain - Telegraph

The Iron Curtain was traced by an electrified barbed-wire fence that isolated the communist world from the West.
It was an impenetrable Cold War barrier - and for some inhabitants of the Czech Republic it still is.

Deer still balk at crossing the border with Germany even though the physical fence came down a quarter century ago, new studies show.
Czechoslovakia, where the communists took power in 1948, had three parallel electrified fences, patrolled by heavily armed guards. Nearly 500 people were killed when they attempted to escape communism.

Deer were also victims of the barrier. A seven-year study in the Czech Republic's Sumava National Park showed that the original Iron Curtain line still deters one species, red deer, from crossing.

"It was fascinating to realise for the first time that anything like that is possible," said Pavel Sustr, a biologist who led the Czech project. Scientists conducting research on German territory reached similar conclusions.

The average life expectancy for deer is 15 years and none living now would have encountered the barrier.

"But the border still plays a role for them and separates the two populations," Mr Sustr said. He said the research showed the animals stick to traditional life patterns, returning every year to the same places.
"Fawns follow mothers for the first year of their life and learn from them where to go," Mr Sustr said.

Wildlife officials recorded the movement of some 300 Czech and German deer with GPS-equipped collars which sent data to computers.
"I don't think it's a surprising result," said professor Ludek Bartos of the Czech University of Life Sciences in Prague, who was not involved in the research. "These animals are really conservative."
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That's a very interesting result. Its always amazing how much impact humans can have on wildlife, especially in these sort of situations where past issues have theoretically been fixed.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Not so, red deer are a rather conservative species when it comes to range and roaming.
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I agree, & fallow even more so. However what it appears happens is a small percentage of females do become "dispersers" & leave the home range & disperse up too 100klms away, the males then follow & somehow find them. It was commonly thought that fallow would only disperse at around 1 klm per year & a little more for red deer. The most recent work on this dispersal strategy is based upon Persian Fallow not reds but several deer biologists I've discussed this with have had minor eureka moments from the discovery.

Back on the red deer, Germany & Eastern Europe do have red deer with different phenotypes. The German reds can reach about 250 kgs have slightly rougher coats, shorter heavier antlers, different rump patch & narrower muzzle than the Eastern red deer. The Jelen/eastern reds are taller, larger 350 kgs, have a lighter smoother coat, longer antlers, larger rump patch narrower muzzle. The German deer are better suited to "forest" & the eastern reds to "open" landscapes. There could be environmental pressure & also different landscape modification which occurred when the curtain was up still influencing the dispersion.

Cheers Khakibob
 
khakibob said:
Back on the red deer, Germany & Eastern Europe do have red deer with different phenotypes. (...)The Jelen/eastern reds are (...)
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The Czech Republic and Slovakia are parts of Central Europe, not East Europe. Please remember this when communicating with Czechs & Slovaks; for some, it's a major gaffe.
 
Batto said:
The Czech Republic and Slovakia are parts of Central Europe, not East Europe. Please remember this when communicating with Czechs & Slovaks; for some, it's a major gaffe.
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Not for me, I've lived in several countries & judge each person as I find them, not by their race or country of origin.

I thought this board was "conservation" not politics anyway?

As you seem to have some local interest in this subject. Is there a difference in phenotype,(Not "political" boundaries) between the deer either side of the old "iron curtain"?

Cheers Khakibob
 
Not to my knowledge. The Czech and German deer belong to the same subspecies hippelaphus. The Carpathians further south are a different matter though.
 
khakibob said:
Not for me, I've lived in several countries & judge each person as I find them, not by their race or country of origin.

I thought this board was "conservation" not politics anyway?

As you seem to have some local interest in this subject. Is there a difference in phenotype,(Not "political" boundaries) between the deer either side of the old "iron curtain"?

Cheers Khakibob
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If you've really lived in several countries, you should know that there are certain cultural pitfalls a foreigner should avoid to put one's foot in. May it be ordering an English breakfast in Ireland, eating with your left hand in Saudi-Arabia or not taking off your outdoor shoes when entering a Japanese private house; you don't want to deliberately offend sensibilities of other peoples, do you?
That's why I just simply indicated this aspect to you; no guile or political presumption intended from my side.
And does realistic conservation work not also include a lot of politics?;)

Regarding your question: what Kifaru Bwana wrote. Local populations might differ among each other in Germany, Austria, CZ or Slovakia very slightly (maybe due to the individual local history and practice of gamekeeping), but they are members of the same subspecies.
 
A DNA study of populations on both sides of the line would have been more conclusive. I dont know how many deer are in the area but I would imagine 300 is a small fraction. DNA studies would show when the last time the populations mixed.

It implies that the deer are afraid to cross the line. It merely shows that the 300 tracked had no reason to cross it. If the grass was greener on the other side or a pack of wolves on their tail I have no doubt they would cross it without consideration.
 
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