Chester Zoo Rethinking RotRA

Pertinax said:
Chester's Orangutans, of both species, bred very freely in their old building too. I think the design/move into RoTRA is unconnected with their continued breeding success.
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Up to a point, Lord Copper (which really means no, for any poor soul who has not read Scoop). I don't think they could have continued to accommodate 2/5 adults of the two different species, with their young, in the old Ape House.
My guess is that RotRA will be used for the Borneans, but it may need some modifications, particularly for Tuan. In theory they could bring in more Borneans, but I think they would be more likely to demolish or modify the old house, perhaps in a way like the one suggested by SMR. This could include redeveloping the babirusa & small-clawed otter enclosure beside it, as the babirusas will also be moving to Islands.

Alan
 
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gentle lemur said:
I don't think they could have continued to accommodate 2/5 adults of the two different species, with their young, in the old Ape House.
My guess is that RotRA will be used for the Borneans, but it may need some modifications, particularly for Tuan. In theory they could bring in more Borneans,
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Agree- I was only suggesting they bred as freely in there(and do in much poorer accomodation in many other Zoos too) as they have done since, but population wise they needed to move them, although the Bornean Orangutans had been severely reduced in numbers well beforehand.

If ROTRA houses only Bornean Orangutans in the future it will look extremely empty IMO, unless they keep the animals they've bred, or add additional ones, or both. Or fill some of the enclosures with other species?

It does seem rather unusual for a building like this to have such a short 'shelf life' in its original form- though admittedly there will still be 'Red Apes' living in it. Compare with e.g. Dudley where the poor Orangutans are still in the 1960's house!
 
Pertinax said:
Agree- I was only suggesting they bred as freely in there(and do in much poorer accomodation in many other Zoos too) as they have done since, but population wise they needed to move them, although the Bornean Orangutans had been severely reduced in numbers well beforehand.

If ROTRA houses only Bornean Orangutans in the future it will look extremely empty IMO, unless they keep the animals they've bred, or add additional ones, or both. Or fill some of the enclosures with other species?

It does seem rather unusual for a building like this to have such a short 'shelf life' in its original form- though admittedly there will still be 'Red Apes' living in it. Compare with e.g. Dudley where the poor Orangutans are still in the 1960's house!
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If RotRA will be home to only Bornean Orangutans, could this mean they'd possibly look at putting Tuan on-show?
 
Why not build an aviary for Bornean birds on the site of the old Orang House, like the one at Twycross, but actually holding birds which come from Borneo.
 
I wonder if they could put special flooring into one of the indoor enclosures specially for Tuan's benefit. It's not as though they'd have to destroy any luxurient planting to do so :) :)

I think the Bornean's accommodation is inferior because the 'other half' of the project has not yet happened, so maybe the new Sumatran accommodation is 'the other half' of the project, just geographically separate!
 
bongorob said:
Why not build an aviary for Bornean birds on the site of the old Orang House, like the one at Twycross, but actually holding birds which come from Borneo.
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Nice idea. I imagine the old Ape/Orangutan House will be demolished as although its not as old as the Tropical House, it doesn't really lend itself to any form of conversion/modernisation in the same way.

Maybe ROTRA and its immediate area would then become a 'Borneo House'!
 
OrangePerson said:
I wonder if they could put special flooring into one of the indoor enclosures specially for Tuan's benefit. It's not as though they'd have to destroy any luxurient planting to do so :) :)
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Maybe they will up the number of Borneo Orangutans and add another male? The two large outside enclosures will look very underused otherwise- unless one is devoted to another species. Tuan presumably needs concrete or(better for his coat) gunite/plastic surfaced flooring to prevent the soil eating. But that could be done in one of the big inside areas.
 
Think langurs and colobine monkeys and gibbons from Kalimantan and .. we would be there. Build a coupla bird aviaries for tropical birds around (including the now babirusa pens) and we are flying away ...

Whether it will ever be done is a completely different reality of course! :)
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Think langurs and colobine monkeys and gibbons from Kalimantan and .. we would be there.
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The indoor enclosures where the Bornean Orangs currently live would be well suited to Langurs/gibbons etc. They are only a few years old, tall and spacious and would serve such Primates well. If I remember, these enclosures, though mesh-roofed, are also open to the sky. They would obviously need new species in here if the Bornean orangs took the Sumatrans' vacated enclosures.
 
I'd hope a revamp to RotRA would incorperate some exciting new mammal species... I can picture Sun Bears in the waterfall exhibit, and, though this could perhaps be pushing my luck, the has been the odd alledged Malayan Tapir sighting in Borneo, and I imagine they would fit in very nicely where the Babirusa are now. More Langurs and Gibbons wouldn't go amiss either - very much wishful thinking on my behalf there...

RE: Islands Artists' Impressions - One of the images from the Indonesian House seems to show Gibbons of some sort in the background - a possible inclusion?
 
HGibbins said:
I'd hope a revamp to RotRA would incorperate some exciting new mammal species... I can picture Sun Bears in the waterfall exhibit,
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I never quite understood the rationale behind the two outside enclosures- were they supposed to be one for each Orangutan species. Are they in fact used like that?

I agree the Waterfall one in particular would make a good exhibit for something else, completely different from Orangutans, as you suggest above.
 
Pertinax said:
I never quite understood the rationale behind the two outside enclosures- were they supposed to be one for each Orangutan species. Are they in fact used like that?
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The Sumatrans use both those enclosures although we were told on one Walk & Talks that the Borneans could be given access to at least one of them.

It seems a very sensible set-up, being split like that - it provides flexibility, eg if Emma & Subis suddenly took a HUGE dislike to each other, or they got a male who couldn't be trusted with small children, they could all still have plenty of separate indoor & outdoor space.
 
HGibbins said:
I'd hope a revamp to RotRA would incorperate some exciting new mammal species... I can picture Sun Bears in the waterfall exhibit, and, though this could perhaps be pushing my luck, the has been the odd alledged Malayan Tapir sighting in Borneo, and I imagine they would fit in very nicely where the Babirusa are now. More Langurs and Gibbons wouldn't go amiss either - very much wishful thinking on my behalf there...

RE: Islands Artists' Impressions - One of the images from the Indonesian House seems to show Gibbons of some sort in the background - a possible inclusion?
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Ever thought that Chester may actually have 2 enclosures with Babirusa in once Islands is done??
 
zoogiraffe said:
Ever thought that Chester may actually have 2 enclosures with Babirusa in once Islands is done??
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That would of course be the sensible approach ...! :)

Plus it is to be appreciated that a zoo opens up space for a suid that does not always deservingly get that amount of space.
 
zoogiraffe said:
Ever thought that Chester may actually have 2 enclosures with Babirusa in once Islands is done??
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That is, of course, an option - I was purely stating my hopes for the exhibit. I was thinking that the limited number of Babyrousa babyrussa in zoos could make that a difficulty, could it not?
 
Management wise it would be good to have at least 2 separate enclosures.

Whether a mixed species form could be given to say primate vs hoofstock or hoofstock / hoofstock (babirusa and anoa) is open for some debate. It may not be that practical or even compatible spp. associations.
 
Given that Chester is the only European collection currently breeding babirusa, with it highly unlikely that most remaining pairs in Europe are going to reproduce again (with a couple of exceptions, notably South Lakes), I would like to see them kept in a purpose-built set of enclosures rather than as part of a mixed immersion exhibit. I realise the two aren't mutually exclusive.
 
I think there are 2 options for the future of RORA.

The first is to keep the Borneans as the anchor species in the indoor areas and one of the outdoor areas. Lush planting could be added to both outdoor meshed areas to house 2 large groups of siamang. I love the idea of introducing Sun Bears into the waterfall side. The space is large enough and already very well planted thus needing very little modification to the outside space ( it could even be split like the spectacled bears if male /female need separating) I also agree with SMR in that the outer edge of RORA could be modified to allow viewing opportunities - either a high level walkway looking over the edge of the retaining metal fence, or for better views of sunbears panels could maybe be cut out of the fence to insert glass viewing windows ( like the tiger viewing ).

The second option is a lot more controversial! It would mean Chester moving away from Borneans and turning RORA into an African Rainforest theme - assuming that HoA is shelved for the foreseeable future. The chimps could move over (to allow the demolition of tropical realm and associated area for new developments). I think the chimp house is really showing it's age and although may meet the needs of the chimps is one of my worst bits of the zoo. The chimps could happily transfer to the space that RoRA provides and although modifications would be necessary, especially for their internal housing, the external viewing opportunity ( as mentioned above) would provide visitors with a great view and actually very similar to the plans for external chimp viewing in the HoA plans. Could Gorillas go into the waterfall side too?? Colobus could populate the external meshed areas and the internal aviaries / vibariums would house African Rainforest species. The old Orang house would be demolished and make way for a walkthrough African avaiary......Anyways this is a pie in the sky idea but who knows.......!!
 
ChesterZooFan said:
I think there are 2 options for the future of RORA.

The first is to keep the Borneans as the anchor species in the indoor areas and one of the outdoor areas. Lush planting could be added to both outdoor meshed areas to house 2 large groups of siamang. I love the idea of introducing Sun Bears into the waterfall side. The space is large enough and already very well planted thus needing very little modification to the outside space ( it could even be split like the spectacled bears if male /female need separating) I also agree with SMR in that the outer edge of RORA could be modified to allow viewing opportunities - either a high level walkway looking over the edge of the retaining metal fence, or for better views of sunbears panels could maybe be cut out of the fence to insert glass viewing windows ( like the tiger viewing ).

The second option is a lot more controversial! It would mean Chester moving away from Borneans and turning RORA into an African Rainforest theme - assuming that HoA is shelved for the foreseeable future. The chimps could move over (to allow the demolition of tropical realm and associated area for new developments). I think the chimp house is really showing it's age and although may meet the needs of the chimps is one of my worst bits of the zoo. The chimps could happily transfer to the space that RoRA provides and although modifications would be necessary, especially for their internal housing, the external viewing opportunity ( as mentioned above) would provide visitors with a great view and actually very similar to the plans for external chimp viewing in the HoA plans. Could Gorillas go into the waterfall side too?? Colobus could populate the external meshed areas and the internal aviaries / vibariums would house African Rainforest species. The old Orang house would be demolished and make way for a walkthrough African avaiary......Anyways this is a pie in the sky idea but who knows.......!!
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Nice idea but last i heard this area of the zoo was going to be South America.
 
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