Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I can imagine, it was a horrific time indeed.
Its great to hear of these natural recolonisation events of predators in the Czech Republic, I hope that this trend continues across the country.
Rewilding
- Thread starter vogelcommando
- Start date
I can imagine, it was a horrific time indeed.
Its great to hear of these natural recolonisation events of predators in the Czech Republic, I hope that this trend continues across the country.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
A much better prospect for wolf rewilding / reintroduction IMO :
I'm curious to know if there has been any talk of reintroducing Lions to Europe?
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
You are joking right ?
No, it's a legitimate question. Not saying I'm in favor of it, just asking.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Well lions were present / extant in Southern Europe until Classical times / the era of the Greco-Roman civilization and of course the further back in time you go the more lions are present across all of Western Europe and especially in the Magdalenian / paleolithic times.
However, I don't think anyone other than an academic who has perhaps spent too long in the ivory tower and consequently very out of touch of the reality would propose rewilding / reintroducing lions to Europe.
In all honesty it is challenging enough with the remaining apex predators like wolves, bear and lynx let alone big cats.
Not to mention wild cat, wolverine, otter, European mink .... et al.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Despite the inherent and considerable challenges of the rewilding of these species I think we would probably agree that they are on a totally different scale to lions.
I'm not sure present day Greeks and Turks would be keen on the idea of rewilding lions either and it strikes me that even if attitudes were favourable those countries have enough to worry about in immediate terms of the economy and internal security / threat of instability (Turkey).
Perhaps the Near East (E. Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Iran) and North Africa (Atlas mountain countries) are more realistic in that respect.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
You mean with the Asiatic lion in the Near East?
Yes, in the near future I would certainly hope so, but I think because of the ongoing instability of those regions this will not be on the table for many decades if not a century or more or indeed ever.
Regarding the "Barbary lion" I am very cynical, I don't think there is such an animal in existence anymore other than the smattering of a few genes of distant ancestors in zoomix lions and that doth not a barbary lion make.
Last edited:
I read somewhere the current number in the Sierra Madre mountains, Chihuahua State (? - carlos55) is around 35 Mexican wolves. Up to 8-11 are to be released soon. The video is of a pair on a friendly rancher's property. The Natura Noreste / University of Queretaro Buena Vista del Cobre ... breeding center is up in neighbouring Sonora State.
The available habitat in Chihuahua is good and mirrors the ones in New Mexico/Arizona and is over 2,000,000 hectares in size.
Link: New study shows abundant high-quality wolf habitat in Mexico - ThinkingAfield.org
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I think that this effort has a good chance of succeeding.
What is key is the support and involvement of that particular rancher and other friendly stakeholders which has been achieved by decades of boots on the ground groundwork by conservationists.
That said, there are serious issues of wolves being poisoned and shot in that area of Mexico by ranchers and wolves disperse over enormous distance and naturally not everyone is well disposed to these animals so it is early days yet.
God speed to this project though and fingers crossed it works out well, audentes Fortuna iuvat.
In the initial stages of the release effort a few wolves did end up being shot if I remember, but the population seems to be growing more recently and the fact the intention is to release up to 11 wolves from the Buena Vista Center (probably includes the Albuquerque Zoo lot) is testament to the fact the recovery effort is gaining ground. Remember also this is year 4 since 2017 launching of the recovery effort plan.
The recovery program has even been highlighted in the more recent IUCN Reintroduction examples.
The Mexican plan was originally set in 2000 with their SEMARNAP effort, eventually leading to a plan in 2009 CONANP. The goal is to have 35+ mature and breeding wolves in Mexico before the reintroduction project is considered successful. This may take a few more years I guess.
The Mexican plan was originally set in 2000 with their SEMARNAP effort, eventually leading to a plan in 2009 CONANP. The goal is to have 35+ mature and breeding wolves in Mexico before the reintroduction project is considered successful. This may take a few more years I guess.
Last edited:
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe you are right, I remember talking with Dr Alejandro Fernandez at Zoologico de los Coyotes many years ago about previous reintroduction efforts which repeatedly ended up in wolves being poisoned by ranchers.
I think some important lessons were learnt from these earlier experiences about how key it is to do the ground work of building up popular support amongst the ranching community and implement education / awareness raising programs in local communities.
Worth mentioning that at the three zoos the ex-situ programe is very well coordinated and particularly at Chapultepec with Dr Marina Robles García at Chapultepec who works very closely with the Americans regarding the conservation of this species ex-situ and in-situ.
Basically I have every confidence in their efforts.
Last edited:
True, I even think they are part of the AZA conservation breeding population and transfer plannings.
USFWS document:
https://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/mexicanwolf/pdf/2017MexicanWolfRecoveryPlanRevision1Final.pdf
The 2020/21 census is still underway up to Feb. 4, 2021.
Link: Mexican Wolf Population Census Counts Underway in Arizona - ThinkingAfield.org
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes absolutely, there is a very good and longstanding working relationship between Marina and the American colleagues.
The same with the Californian condor, a very good Mexican-US relationship in conserving these species in-situ / ex-situ.
Likewise with Peninsular and Sonoran pronghorn.
Check auto regulator language: Marina = Mexico
Mind you: zoo wise cooperation can be better and should be improved. Good examples gorilla and white rhino, it is almost non-existent ..., surprising since Mexico did have a very good record for breeding white rhino in the past even in single pairings ... Gorillas is another matter, but it sure could be easy to send 2-3 young females to Mexico to have a new breeding line represented and entering the AZA SSP Gorilla.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
No , I mean Marina the conservation biologist / coordinator of the ex-situ programe for the Mexican wolf at Chapultepec zoo.
Hmmmm......you know how I feel about exotic species in Latin American zoos like gorillas and rhino and the level of prioritization that they should receive but yes I do somewhat agree there could be a greater level of communication / cooperation across the board.
I think what is important though is that there are long term connections between the US and Mexico for conservation and with the will to do so these can be strengthened for the benefit of conservation of biodiversity.
I actually think there should be a far greater connection between Mexico and her Southern neighbours in Latin America and hopefully in a small way I can facilitate an improved communication or at least I hope to do this for Brazil - Mexico in the future.
Last edited:
Short answer: no. Not seriously at least.
Longer answer: as @Onychorhynchus coronatus said lions are historically native to Europe, but so far there are no plans to bring them back. Even if it would be ecologically feasible (which it may not be) the social context would make it (near?) impossible to do so. However, lions do serve an important role in the rewilding narrative, as it questions people's perceptions about what is natural, and what Europe is and what it could be in the future. The presence of lions within the European rewilding debate is more about sparking discussions instead of actual reintroduction of the species. That being said, it is good to keep an open mind about every species that historically inhabited western Eurasia, as well as being realistic about the options in the current situation.
If lions would be reintroduced in northern Africa I would personally choose a group of genetically diverse lions to start it, instead of trying to use whatever is left of the barbary lion lineage in zoomix individuals.