Rewilding

Pleistohorse said:
It’s mostly just a fantasy and a thought experiment…reimagining Eden. Unwilling to wait on evolution’s plodding ways…and maybe a desire to play God.

But also not always without merit…if we are strictly speaking of species that recently inhabited regions from which they are extinct. Capybaras in Florida. Horses in the American west. And maybe sometimes where a wild population (properly managed) can be established outside of it's current range as a means of preserving the animal for later reintroduction if needed.

Why not a controlled experiment with Cassowaries (in multi-acre enclosures) to see if the return of a large flightless bird to New Zealand has merit?

And really it’s just a fantasy and in the most ambitious imaginings unlikely to ever bear fruit.
Click to expand...
Because cassowaries are nothing like moas and are far more likely to cause ecological damage in a sensitive ecosystem like New Zealand.

Feral Horses are devastating invasive species in the American West. They are not good animals to have around. I saw firsthand how they decimate an ecosystem in Arizona. They are an entire huge stretch of desert nearly the size of Phoenix down to just sagebrush, the only plant they wouldn't eat. Barely animals were able to live there, and the horses were all super unhealthy and starving since they had nothing left to eat. They should be eradicated, but they're federally protected for some stupid reason.
 
Pantheraman said:
Here are really foolish ideas put out there by the "rewilding community".

View attachment 603284
Now some of these I've already mentioned, but the rest are just...I can't even put it into words.

But I will say this though, as someone who has written a book on dholes, putting those animals into the African rainforests is ridiculous. Ecologically speaking, these habitats don't need dholes in them and where the jungles meet savanna, it would be wiser to get Painted Dogs reestablished.

And as for the last one...a new ecosystem? Why not restore what once was in historical times instead of making something new? Then again, they are really disconnected with real-world ecology and wildlife conservation.

And I'm gonna say it: There's a difference between wildlife conservation and playing God.
Click to expand...
"Creating a new ecosystem in Iceland" This sounds like Professor Sada/Turo's plan from Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.

You'll be happy to hear that some people actually are working on bringing back Iceland's ecosystem:

 
Pantheraman said:
Here are really foolish ideas put out there by the "rewilding community".

View attachment 603284
Now some of these I've already mentioned, but the rest are just...I can't even put it into words.

But I will say this though, as someone who has written a book on dholes, putting those animals into the African rainforests is ridiculous. Ecologically speaking, these habitats don't need dholes in them and where the jungles meet savanna, it would be wiser to get Painted Dogs reestablished.

And as for the last one...a new ecosystem? Why not restore what once was in historical times instead of making something new? Then again, they are really disconnected with real-world ecology and wildlife conservation.

And I'm gonna say it: There's a difference between wildlife conservation and playing God.
Click to expand...
Where did you get this list?
 
Swampy said:
I think there's a very important distinction to be made here; between the ecologists, academics and conservation practitioners involved in restoration ecology/ rewilding, and folks on the Internet posting ideas with no follow-through or repercussions.
Click to expand...
Don't forget about the "compassionate conservationists". They're into pleistocene rewilding as well.
 
birdsandbats said:
While Tiger and Leopard did have very large ranges historically, neither species was found in the Chernobyl area even in historical times.
Click to expand...

You'd be wrong there; the Caspian Tiger occurred in eastern Ukraine and adjacent southwest Russia until the late Middle Ages, with a record from the Chernihiv region of Ukraine (only around 30 miles from Chernobyl itself) in the 12th century.

Corangurilla said:
“Penguins in the Northern Hemisphere.” What’s wrong with puffins? Too flighty? All auks are great in their own way!
Click to expand...

Penguins originally come from the northern hemisphere anyhow ;) all the things we call penguins now are cheap knock-offs of the glorious original.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
You'd be wrong there; the Caspian Tiger occurred in eastern Ukraine and adjacent southwest Russia until the late Middle Ages, with a record from the Chernihiv region of Ukraine (only around 30 miles from Chernobyl itself) in the 12th century.
Click to expand...
I couldn't find anything like this. Where did you learn about these?
 
birdsandbats said:
I couldn't find anything like this. Where did you learn about these?
Click to expand...

The most readily-accessible source of the information would be Mammals of the Soviet Union (Vol II Part 2) by Heptner and Sludskii (1972) :) which notes a report of a tiger attack on Vladimir II Monomakh, Grand Prince of the Kyivan Rus in the late 11th and early 12th century, during the time he served as the Prince of Chernigov. Unfortunately, a more detailed journal article which this book cites (O lyutom zvere Monomakhova "Poucheniya detyam" Heptner 1969) has not been translated into English, nor is it available online.
 
While we're on this topic, I do want to add something else.

From my own experience, a pretty good-sized chunk of those on paleontology or those into paleontology is in favor of pleistocene rewilding. You'll hear them say it could work. I think the reason they're in favor of it is that deep down, they wish they could live with the ice age giant, and pleistocene rewilding is what they see as the closest thing to that.

Not trying to disrespect those within this field, but they can also be disconnected from the real world. Take Jack Horner and his T-Rex scavenger hypothesis for example. And apparently, according to Animalogic they argue over if Varanus priscus was a hunter or scavenger instead of thinking "Hmmm...what do living monitor lizards do for a living? I need to look to them instead of argue with others over it."
 
TeaLovingDave said:
You'd be wrong there; the Caspian Tiger occurred in eastern Ukraine and adjacent southwest Russia until the late Middle Ages, with a record from the Chernihiv region of Ukraine (only around 30 miles from Chernobyl itself) in the 12th century.
Click to expand...
If that's the case then maybe reintroducing Tigers to the area actually is a good idea.
 
Riparian forest of the Tugay variety, along with the Pontic-Caspian steppe - both of which have been largely converted into agricultural land over the centuries.
 
Pantheraman said:
From my own experience, a pretty good-sized chunk of those on paleontology or those into paleontology is in favor of pleistocene rewilding.
Click to expand...
What does "those on paleontology" mean? Do you just mean palaeontologists? How do you have experience with "a pretty good-sized chunk" of palaeontologists? And are "those into paleontology" just ... random people on the internet?

Most of what you claim is being aimed for with rewilding really sounds like "fantasy rewilders" on forums and Facebook. It would be like if someone was claiming "this is what zoo managers are trying to do" while quoting kids' made-up zoos from Zoochat's Fantasy forum. You don't appear to have much of a filter for distinguishing between what is considered realistic and what is just people doing thought experiments.
 
Pleistohorse said:
Why not a controlled experiment with Cassowaries (in multi-acre enclosures) to see if the return of a large flightless bird to New Zealand has merit?
Click to expand...
birdsandbats said:
Because cassowaries are nothing like moas and are far more likely to cause ecological damage in a sensitive ecosystem like New Zealand.
Click to expand...
Cassowaries feed predominantly on fruit - I doubt they would do very well in New Zealand forests...
 
Chlidonias said:
What does "those on paleontology" mean? Do you just mean palaeontologists? How do you have experience with "a pretty good-sized chunk" of palaeontologists? And are "those into paleontology" just ... random people on the internet?

Most of what you claim is being aimed for with rewilding really sounds like "fantasy rewilders" on forums and Facebook. It would be like if someone was claiming "this is what zoo managers are trying to do" while quoting kids' made-up zoos from Zoochat's Fantasy forum. You don't appear to have much of a filter for distinguishing between what is considered realistic and what is just people doing thought experiments.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about both actual paleontologists and those on the internet. In one facebook group I'm in that's dedicated to paleontology, it's it's a bit of a popular idea. How many actual paleontologists are in that group, I'm not sure. There are a few though. I've also contacted some via email and one on discord.

Actually, I do. I was just pointing out how off their rockers these people can be. And it doesn't matter what they're proposing, they will argue their case. Example, I was dogpiled a little bit by people who thought dumping elephants into North America is a good idea. I doubt someone doing a simply thought experiment act like that.

And let's not forget what the so-called "compassionate conservationists" would try doing if they had that power.
 
Pantheraman said:
. I was just pointing out how off their rockers these people can be. And it doesn't matter what they're proposing, they will argue their case.
Click to expand...

Considering some of the conspiracy theories you've posted about a certain conservation organisation working with wild canids in the past, I have one thing to say:

Glass houses. Stones.

:p
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Considering some of the conspiracy theories you've posted about a certain conservation organisation working with wild canids in the past, I have one thing to say:

Glass houses. Stones.

:p
Click to expand...


Listen, I'm sorry if I sound like some kind of conspiracy theorist or jerk for criticizing people doing thought experiments.

But the reason I criticize these people is that they honestly should know better. I mean, look at history involving invasive species. That alone should tell them what they want to happen is a bad idea. But somehow it doesn't. And it especially gets irritating with the problematic academics we call compassionate conservationists.
 
Pantheraman said:
But the reason I criticize these people is that they honestly should know better. I mean, look at history involving invasive species. That alone should tell them what they want to happen is a bad idea. But somehow it doesn't. And it especially gets irritating with the problematic academics we call compassionate conservationists.
Click to expand...
You seem to mostly be criticising people who apparently don't know better, because you mostly aren't criticising actual scientists who work in the field - you're criticising ideas you find on Facebook, apparently. And what random people on Facebook come up with as ideas for rewilding doesn't even matter because it's not going to be happening. (Also, I do have to point out that when someone earlier asked where you got your list from, the single-word answer "Facebook" is just the worst kind of vague answer which doesn't actually answer the question in any helpful way. You may as well have said "from Reddit" or "I saw it on tv").

Your posts always read like you can't separate individuals from concepts, like you think that a person who is interested in X and thinks Y about it therefore means that everybody else interested in X thinks the exact same Y (e.g. your post earlier: "Don't forget about the "compassionate conservationists". They're into pleistocene rewilding as well."). It's like reading a Young Earth Creationist saying "Atheists believe this thing because Person X said it on Facebook and he's an Atheist"

Also, I really want to know what your last sentence means in the post I quoted? Who are you referring to with "we"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top