Rewilding

Apparently there is some controversy over the bison reintroduction to Spain. The European bison isn’t really suited to the mediterranean climate and probably didn’t exist throught most of Spain.
 
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The_Leopard_Seal said:
Apparently there is some controversy over the bison reintroduction to Spain. The European bison isn’t really suited to the mediterranean climate and probably didn’t exist throught most of Spain.
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The European Bison is probably more heat-tolerant that some people believe ; a single century ago this species used to live on the rugged slopes of the Caucasus, where the climate is very hot and dry in summer, and may be compared to the climate of Spanish (and Portuguese) highlands.

In France we have the same controversy with the Capercaillie reintroduction, while this bird (although notoriously difficult to reintroduce) fares better in the Balkans even in Albania that isn't properly a cold country (not more than French mountains).
 
Haliaeetus said:
The European Bison is probably more heat-tolerant that some people believe ; a single century ago this species used to live on the rugged slopes of the Caucasus, where the climate is very hot and dry in summer, and may be compared to the climate of Spanish (and Portuguese) highlands.

In France we have the same controversy with the Capercaillie reintroduction, while this bird (although notoriously difficult to reintroduce) fares better in the Balkans even in Albania that isn't properly a cold country (not more than French mountains).
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True. But there is no evidence that the European bison ever lived in the Iberian peninsula (except perhaps for the Pyrennes). And steppe bison and European bison have some differences.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...roduction_The_case_of_European_bison_in_Spain
 
Haliaeetus said:
The European Bison is probably more heat-tolerant that some people believe ; a single century ago this species used to live on the rugged slopes of the Caucasus, where the climate is very hot and dry in summer, and may be compared to the climate of Spanish (and Portuguese) highlands.
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The 'too warm climate' theory has little merit.

European bison historically lived even further south, in the Alborz mountains in today north Iran and Zagroz mountains of west and south Iran, and also on treeless dry steppes north-east of Caucasus. European bison were common on cultural artifacts there, but this fact was not known to conservation biologists until very recently.

The_Leopard_Seal said:
there is no evidence that the European bison ever lived in the Iberian peninsula (except perhaps for the Pyrennes).
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I would not trust it unless a modern, unbiased search for European bison remains in Spain and Portugal was done, together with genotyping problematic cattle / bison bones.

Archeozoological data are very patchy, typically very old, easily lost, very often mis-assigned to species even in case of large mammals, and very biased by what wildlife was expected or not expected in the locality. There is simply too many examples where existence of large mammals and birds important for rewilding studies several centuries ago in Europe was completely overlooked. European bison in the Russian steppes and in Iran, late-surviving aurochs in Romania, lynx in recent Britain, northern lynx and bald ibis in Spain, native fallow deer in Spain and elsewhere in southern Europe and many others.

Also that steppe bison were not European bison is not tenable. Ecological replacement commonly includes a closely related species given non-existence of traditional steppe bison. Genetic data show that some steppe bison were closer to European bison than to other steppe bison - simply there was no dichotomy of traditional two species with different scientific names.

My approach to bison in Spain is much more permissible - if European bison can biologically live in Spain, they should be there. This is based on general tolerance towards large mammals slightly away from their last known native range (vide e.g. fallow deer when it was still regarded as recently introduced to Spain), possibility of ecological replacement of steppe bison, gaps in bone records and genetic data, ideological nature of discussions what is sufficiently native or related, and known conservation value of spreading european bison away from political and economic threats.

(wow, I did not write so much on zoochat since months!)
 
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The_Leopard_Seal said:
India plans to send 6 Royal Bengal tigers to Cambodia after monsoon
Tigers are being reintroduced to Cambodia.
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Seems a bit strange to send Bengal tigers to Cambodia, which is home to Indochinese tigers. I am aware there is still a lot of debate about tiger genetics, but would it not be safest to use tigers from nearer populations (eg Thailand) that have some genetic similarity rather than risk polluting the gene pool with other subspecies?

Something similar occurred in India when a tigress from Twycross was released in Dudhwa NP in the 70s, leading to Siberian tiger genes contaminating the Bengal population. While Bengal and Inodchinese tigers are less distinct from what I have read, it could pose similar risks.
 
Jurek7 said:
The 'too warm climate' theory has little merit.

European bison historically lived even further south, in the Alborz mountains in today north Iran and Zagroz mountains of west and south Iran, and also on treeless dry steppes north-east of Caucasus. European bison were common on cultural artifacts there, but this fact was not known to conservation biologists until very recently.



Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I would not trust it unless a modern, unbiased search for European bison remains in Spain and Portugal was done, together with genotyping problematic cattle / bison bones.

Archeozoological data are very patchy, typically very old, easily lost, very often mis-assigned to species even in case of large mammals, and very biased by what wildlife was expected or not expected in the locality. There is simply too many examples where existence of large mammals and birds important for rewilding studies several centuries ago in Europe was completely overlooked. European bison in the Russian steppes and in Iran, late-surviving aurochs in Romania, lynx in recent Britain, northern lynx and bald ibis in Spain, native fallow deer in Spain and elsewhere in southern Europe and many others.

Also that steppe bison were not European bison is not tenable. Ecological replacement commonly includes a closely related species given non-existence of traditional steppe bison. Genetic data show that some steppe bison were closer to European bison than to other steppe bison - simply there was no dichotomy of traditional two species with different scientific names.

My approach to bison in Spain is much more permissible - if European bison can biologically live in Spain, they should be there. This is based on general tolerance towards large mammals slightly away from their last known native range (vide e.g. fallow deer when it was still regarded as recently introduced to Spain), possibility of ecological replacement of steppe bison, gaps in bone records and genetic data, ideological nature of discussions what is sufficiently native or related, and known conservation value of spreading european bison away from political and economic threats.

(wow, I did not write so much on zoochat since months!)
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Excellent points. Thank you.
 
Randomname0183 said:
Seems a bit strange to send Bengal tigers to Cambodia, which is home to Indochinese tigers. I am aware there is still a lot of debate about tiger genetics, but would it not be safest to use tigers from nearer populations (eg Thailand) that have some genetic similarity rather than risk polluting the gene pool with other subspecies?

Something similar occurred in India when a tigress from Twycross was released in Dudhwa NP in the 70s, leading to Siberian tiger genes contaminating the Bengal population. While Bengal and Inodchinese tigers are less distinct from what I have read, it could pose similar risks.
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They probably went through all the options and decided that, since Bengals and Indochinese tigers would have been 1 interconnected population anyway, get tigers from a country that has enough to spare.

Maybe Thailand could have given some from the Western Forest complex but I'm not sure if there are enough to give away
 
tigris115 said:
They probably went through all the options and decided that, since Bengals and Indochinese tigers would have been 1 interconnected population anyway, get tigers from a country that has enough to spare.
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Good point, though considering the long standing debate I am not entirely sure how close or distant Bengal tigers are to the Indochinese. From a quick read online, Indochinese and Bengal diverged about 20,000 years apart from each other, though if talking by morphology, they are probably relatively closer than other potential founder sources and have a traceable genetic origin.

So basically a matter of the next best thing in the absence of available Indochinese tigers.
 
The_Leopard_Seal said:
If they are going to go through this then they should reintroduce wolves and lynx.
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Although that would be exciting I don't see the reintroduction of Elk being connected to the wolf and lynx reintroductions. Lynx especially (although the most viable predator for a reintroduction in the UK) will not impact elk at all. Wolf pack sizes in Western Europe are quite small so unlikely to prey on adult elk.
 
47 Common Hamsters have just been released in Alsace in a reintroduction project that has led to the recovery of this rodent there.
NaturOparC on Instagram: " Hier, c'était la journée mondiale des espèces menacées En Alsace, cette date résonne tout particulièrement avec le , rongeur le plus menacé de France et pourtant emblématique de notre plaine agricole ️ Quel plus bel hommage pouvions-nous lui rendre qu’un événement porteur d’espoir : les ̂ de l’année ont lieu aujourd’hui, avec 47 Grands Hamsters relâchés ! Au bord de l’extinction au début du siècle, de petites populations fragiles sont à nouveau présentes, avec plus de 1 100 terriers repérés en 2024. Cette belle avancée est le fruit d’un travail passionné, mené en collaboration avec l’État, les agriculteurs et les acteurs de la conservation, pour donner une véritable chance de survie aux populations alsaciennes. #EspècesMenacées #GrandHamster #Conservation #Alsace #Naturoparc #Biodiversité #JournéeMondialeDesEspècesMenacées #PlanNationalAction"
 
Daktari JG said:
10 Siamese crocodiles released into the wild.
Article says less than a 100 Siamese crocodiles in the wild. Then a few sentences later says there are an estimated 200-250 in one specific location

Local Communities Release 10 Critically Endangered Siamese Crocodiles Into Wetlands in Laos to Help Save the Species from Extinction

I'd like to buy an editor please.
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The article says "With less than 1000 Siamese Crocodile (Crocodylus siamensis) remaining in the wild", not 100.
 
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