I think you might want to go and check your sources on this - seriously!
Melbourne Zoo Rigo the gorilla #2
- Thread starter zookiah63
- Start date
- Status
I think you might want to go and check your sources on this - seriously!
If Rigo has been trained to give a sperm sample and they intend to use A.I on thr females, why would they need to move the other male out and Rigo in?
I guess there was a risk of the other male getting at the females, but i don't see the point of changing the group dynamics if A.I is to be used.
I guess there was a risk of the other male getting at the females, but i don't see the point of changing the group dynamics if A.I is to be used.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
Motaba, the other male is in another off-view exhibit to the public. All the time the keeper in the hut says, trying to make genetic diversity. But Rigo has bad social problems, but i can see where you are coming from.
The information I got regarding Rigo not mating was from a keeper as well as people doing animal watches.
The information regarding who will be used for breeding I got from a keeper.
The information regarding the sperm samples (not sure, but I'm sure it was a keeper, too.)
Yuska will definitely not be used for breeding but G Anne and Julia will.
I haven't heard anything on the contrary either officially or unofficially.
If you have other information then I'd to hear it.
Besides, if he's not mating with the girls and they clearly want him to breed with the females and talking about who will continue with contraception then how else is it going to happen?
Hi zookiah, a couple of further comments:
Quite likely, this is the case, although I haven't checked.
This is completely correct.
My understanding is that Rigo is not in any way conditioned to provide semen samples, and there are no plans for artificial insemination.
My concern with your posting was the section "The females will probably be artificially inseminated. Rigo is trained to provide sperm samples.". Neither of these statements is correct to the best of my knowledge.
The plan is that Rigo will breed naturally with the two females you've mentioned.
I hope that helps to clear up any misconceptions
Quite likely, this is the case, although I haven't checked.
This is completely correct.
My understanding is that Rigo is not in any way conditioned to provide semen samples, and there are no plans for artificial insemination.
My concern with your posting was the section "The females will probably be artificially inseminated. Rigo is trained to provide sperm samples.". Neither of these statements is correct to the best of my knowledge.
The plan is that Rigo will breed naturally with the two females you've mentioned.
I hope that helps to clear up any misconceptions
You might as well check this while you're at it.
ZooPro
As I said, this is what I heard from a keeper (just recently).
I also made the assumption that since they want to breed from Rigo and he's not mating that AI is the obvious path to take (and it's been done before - over 20 years ago - and things have changed a lot since then).
I'll be careful how I word things in future.
And I had heard (and mentioned on previous posts) that Rigo was able to provide sperm samples.
A lot of information is posted on this forum from people of varying backgrounds and there's much speculation about what is/isn't going on as well as what should and shouldn't happen. I have provided and well as received information in the past and when I've been corrected or challenged it's usually been done with tact and grace (which is welcomed).
As I said, this is what I heard from a keeper (just recently).
I also made the assumption that since they want to breed from Rigo and he's not mating that AI is the obvious path to take (and it's been done before - over 20 years ago - and things have changed a lot since then).
I'll be careful how I word things in future.
And I had heard (and mentioned on previous posts) that Rigo was able to provide sperm samples.
A lot of information is posted on this forum from people of varying backgrounds and there's much speculation about what is/isn't going on as well as what should and shouldn't happen. I have provided and well as received information in the past and when I've been corrected or challenged it's usually been done with tact and grace (which is welcomed).
I'm not sure if you meant this last comment as a compliment or a complaint! Hopefully , the former. I agree with your comment completely though, and also agree that if forum members have more accurate or up to date information about a post, it's great to get it out there.
That way, we all find out (hopefully), what's going on.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
Either way naturally, artificially i just hope we can another gorilla baby soon.
gorillagirl
Member
Hi guys, I asked a keeper the other day if Rigo was trained to give sperm samples. They had a giggle and said that he has not been trained in this. I hope this helps!!!
Funny about that
This is a good example of how rumours can so easily "become" facts. It's always wise to check on information before posting it as factual, or at least mention that it's second-hand information and not verified.I'm glad to hear you followed up on it though.
So exactly what is the current situation with the group and what is planned?
I'm presuming Rigo has shown no interest in mating and is now a nonstarter in that department? Will they knock Rigo down to obtain semen and then try to A.1. G.Anne, Julia and/or Jumatano? Or alternatively, with Rigo's genes now represented through his grandson Mapema in Duisburg, reinstate Motaba as group leader/breeder again?
gretak25
Member
Rigo looking good
Went and saw Rigo for the first time in over twenty years. He is definitely older and calmer. As I stood pondering his past and present and his magnificent genetics I couldn't help but think how much he has already given. He has a son. He was wild captured. He was aggro. He was isolated for a long, long, time. To see him sitting there in the sun with a family around him was a joy to behold and I am going to choose to believe that whether he fathers another offspring naturally or with AI is no longer the issue. His freedom and happiness is the issue. I struggle with animals in captivity and I think many of us do, even ardent zoo fans. Rigo has earned his time in the sun and to see the zoo enable this old boy to live out his years in dignity is heartwarming. Whether he breeds again is not a big deal, he looks happy and he has earned his right to bask in the sun even if he never performs again I will happily pay just to look at him and think about life and my place in it. He is that inspiring. At 39 I found myself thinking more about HIS mortality than what he will or will not achieve.
Went and saw Rigo for the first time in over twenty years. He is definitely older and calmer. As I stood pondering his past and present and his magnificent genetics I couldn't help but think how much he has already given. He has a son. He was wild captured. He was aggro. He was isolated for a long, long, time. To see him sitting there in the sun with a family around him was a joy to behold and I am going to choose to believe that whether he fathers another offspring naturally or with AI is no longer the issue. His freedom and happiness is the issue. I struggle with animals in captivity and I think many of us do, even ardent zoo fans. Rigo has earned his time in the sun and to see the zoo enable this old boy to live out his years in dignity is heartwarming. Whether he breeds again is not a big deal, he looks happy and he has earned his right to bask in the sun even if he never performs again I will happily pay just to look at him and think about life and my place in it. He is that inspiring. At 39 I found myself thinking more about HIS mortality than what he will or will not achieve.
gorillagirl
Member
So well said! I am sure the zoo feels the same way!
don't forget about the other Gorillas in the group though. If they don't breed then there will be no offspring for any of the females and an unnatural social situation of a group containing no young longterm.
A course of A1 would be stressful both for him and any female(s) involved and very likely fail anyway. With Rigo's grandson Mapema now breeding in Duisburg (2 offspring so far), his genetic contribution is now less important. I would prefer to see Rigo and Yuska 'pensioned off' and living together and Motaba allowed to return to the main group. Jumatano could be exchanged for an additional unrelated female.
gretak25
Member
Yes I am not sure how you deal with the best interests of two or more adult males but your suggestion to pension out the oldies is probably the best so far. Not a particularly natural state of affairs but then again zoos are not natural and we can only do what seems best. Pensioning the oldies is better than withdrawing a virile male as long as more offspring is what you really want. The plight of mature breeding males is a cross species, ongoing issue for all zoos. I guess I failed to articulate that the realisation hit me that Rigo is back not to breed but to keep people like me happy. I am 50 and have vivid memories of a not so happy Rigo and heartbreaking glimpses of him isolated, but close enough to hear and smell, in the adjoining primate pits for too many years. Is it possible that this is a combined PR and population control decision?
I cannot imagine that putting back Rigo in was a recommendation from the EEP. I am very much for a 3rd gorilla holder in Australia and then relocate Rigo with an elderly female for socialisation. Would Monarto or Werribee be a good choice?
Werribee do have gorillas in their masterplan and it would make a lot of sense to source these from Melbourne e.g. batchelor group or split into two breeding groups.
- Status