Melbourne Zoo Rigo the gorilla #2

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snowleopard said:
It is truly intriguing to note that several members on Zoobeat who are massive fans of Melbourne Zoo aren't afraid to criticize the establishment for the appalling treatment of Rigo the male silverback.
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really?

as you said snowleopard, i absolutely love melbourne zoo. its my home zoo and i live just down the road from it. but i don't love it unconditionally. i don't agree with all the decisions they make. so not only will i not defend them when they don't deserve it - at times i'll positively lead the attack.

because in voicing my opinion and (hopefully) raising awareness of the issues, i hope to ensure my favorite zoo doesn't make such ridiculous mistakes again.

by being melbourne zoos biggest critic, i'm hopefully making it a better zoo in the long run.
 
Patrick: That is the best way to approach an individual's local zoo. Enjoy the visit, but constantly keep an eye on the future. Melbourne Zoo has half of the zoo looking fabulous, and that portion ranks up there with the best in the world. Unfortunately it has been well documented here on ZooBeat that the second half of the zoo is merely adequate. I'm sure that 10 years from now there will be a number of improved and expanded exhibits that will increase public awareness and attendance for the zoo.

Even the best zoos in the world need to vastly improve their enclosures, particularly when it comes to size. I visited the San Diego Zoo last year and the place is top-notch, and yet there are a large number of exhibits that could be more spacious. The current $44 million construction project for elephants and a number of other species will only make the zoo better than it already is.
 
Rigo

I went to melbourne Zoo only last week and i missed out on seeing any gorilla's up close because all the adult females were off display being introduced to Rigo and all i saw were the three babies from last time they bred (Yakini ect.) up on the top of the hill behind some grass.
The pygmy hippoes off to Taronga and the otters have moved to his bigger pool, which is in the african rainforest trail but are ASIAN small clawed otters so it doesn't really fit.
And there was a few keepers in their old cage putting up ropes because the bintourongs are moving in there.
 
Hi everyone, I am a new member and also a frequent Melbourne zoo visitor. I have been reading this post with much interest. I have always loved gorillas and would love to work with them someday. I particularly find Rigo amazing, and as such very interested in this thread.

I hope you dont mind my asking some questions. Firstly, what do most of the other members have to do with zoos? Are you keepers (any advise for getting into industry...haha?), zoo admin, animal welfare..unrelated profession (just a keen interest in zoos?)?

Also, re. Rigo. Have any of you asked the keepers (do any of you know them?)? How do they respond to all of this?

Thanks for any replies, I am really curious!
 
I hope you dont mind my asking some questions. Firstly, what do most of the other members have to do with zoos? Are you keepers (any advise for getting into industry...haha?), zoo admin, animal welfare..unrelated profession (just a keen interest in zoos?)?

I cant speak for the rest of the forum , but I have never worked in the zoo .
I wanted to when I was younger , but it didnt work out in the end .
I am just an amateur that has a keen interest in zoos , and visits as many of them as I can . As well as animals , conservation , I have a keen interest in zoo design and zoochitecture . But I am not employed in either of those fields either
 
Same with me.
I'm just a "zoo tragic", but have never worked at a zoo. (I'm a retired Water Board inspector, God help me!) I have always kept aviary birds, a few reptiles and fish, just as a hobby.

It strikes me that it is easy to criticise zoos (which I do a lot) but deep down I have great admiration for those who keep such enterprises afloat, be they administrators or keepers.

My family have never really understood my obsession with zoos, but my grandchildren don't mind a bit!
 
Melbourne Gorillas.

I'm guessing that as there's been no recent posts about Rigo and the group, that there are currently no developments... Anyone know if he has done any mating yet or is he going to prove a 'dud'...?
 
Pertinax said:
I'm guessing that as there's been no recent posts about Rigo and the group, that there are currently no developments... Anyone know if he has done any mating yet or is he going to prove a 'dud'...?
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The keeper at the hut told me that he has bad social problems, it is pretty hard for the females to put up with him sometimes. They actually tried to send him to another zoo at sometime but this plan fell through. But there is a bit of hope because he has sired one offspring once before.
I wonder though it might be an extemly long time until Rigo successfully inseminates or at all, this could be wasted time for gorilla breeding since they still have Motaba and his sons in a bachelor group, if you kinda get what i mean.

But then again it is all for genetic variety.
Does anyone know if their is a limit of offspring a gorilla has to have in the zoo system?
 
If you look back through this thread you will discover all about the long history of Rigo at Melbourne Zoo. Currently an effort is being made to breed from him again now in order to further establish his genes in the population.

Zoos and the Species co-ordinators work together to decide how many offspring should be produced, depending on available space, potential new exhibits that could take offspring in the future, genetic representation in the captive population etc. So there is really no set number, it varies from time to time and from zoo to zoo according to the current situation at each..
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
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Does anyone know if their is a limit of offspring a gorilla has to have in the zoo system?
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I didn't quite answer your question before and to be honest I don't know the answer to this exactly- to be 'safe' genetically I guess a gorilla needs probably two (or three?) offspring at least, but there's probably an official recommendation for the exact number. Successful breeding males are likely to potentially fill their genetic 'quota' more quickly where they live in a group with several females...
 
Just wondering, elephants, rhinos and some other animals actually have a offspring limit, depending on which assiociation of zoos they are in.
 
There is ideally a limit to the genetic influence each individual has on the future of a species in captive breeding programs. That is the main difference between breeding domestic and wild animals.

With domestic and farm animals, the breeder is trying to upgrade or "improve" his stock by concentrating the genes of the "best" animal into the breed. For example; Santa Gertrudis cattle, a well-known beef breed. They originated basically as a cross between the Brahman and British Short-horn breeds. You could cross-breed Brahmans and Shorthorns for years and not get an animal that looks just like the Santa Gertrudis. That's because they all look like the sole founding bull (named Monkey) who was developed in Texas and regarded as a superior beef animal and whose genes are carried by every representative of the breed.

With wild animals however the aim is not to alter or "improve" the species; quite the opposite; the aim is to keep the animal as close to the natural species as possible, and rather than concentrating the genes of any one animal the aim is to evenly represent the different genes of as many animals as possible. I suppose the limit of how many offspring a successful breeding wild animal can have is set by the studbook keeper.
 
Ara said:
With wild animals however the aim is not to alter or "improve" the species; quite the opposite; the aim is to keep the animal as close to the natural species as possible, and rather than concentrating the genes of any one animal the aim is to evenly represent the different genes of as many animals as possible. I suppose the limit of how many offspring a successful breeding wild animal can have is set by the studbook keeper.
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So zoo's are trying to keep basically the same genetic diversity in zoos comparable to the wild?
 
Yes, but it's easier said than done.
There is genetic "drift" to contend with, which basically means that not all genes are handed on ; some are lost. Also with not many founders in captivity an undesirable gene (for albinism, for example, which makes an animal "stand out" and draw unwanted attention from predators) can become concentrated in the offspring if both parents carry it.

With a small genetic pool animals become inbred - weaker, with more birth defects etc., so the more founders a zoo population has the better.
 
Ara said:
Yes, but it's easier said than done.
There is genetic "drift" to contend with, which basically means that not all genes are handed on ; some are lost. Also with not many founders in captivity an undesirable gene (for albinism, for example, which makes an animal "stand out" and draw unwanted attention from predators) can become concentrated in the offspring if both parents carry it.

With a small genetic pool animals become inbred - weaker, with more birth defects etc., so the more founders a zoo population has the better.
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I guess to make for a better breeding future in zoos, we have got to make our current breeding system very diverse.
Animals born in the wild are on top of the stud list.
 
If ZooPro reads this thread, he may be able to give you the 'official' slant on how many offspring individuals of some species are scheduled to produce in order to maintain the most genetic diversity, at least in your Oz zoos. It may vary considerably according to species, housing availability etc.
 
Rigo hasn't mated with anyone of the females. The females will probably be artificially inseminated. Rigo is trained to provide sperm samples. I believe all the girls will be used except for Yuska, but I don't know in what order. ie. I don't think they will be inseminated at the same time and I don't know of the time frame either.....hopefully soon.
 
Well, that's interesting. Notwithstanding Melbourne's original pioneering success with MZuri/Ya Kwanza, AI still seems very problematic but perhaps they can succeed again. Otherwise the best hopes of perpetuating Rigo's genes will be through (son)Ya Kwanza at Jersey and, possibly the best bet, (grandson) Mapema, now at Duisburg Zoo in Germany.
 
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