Melbourne Zoo Rigo the gorilla.....

[Yassa]

I think these new guidelines are really nothing more then "guidelines" with exeptions possible when good reasons exist, and the "big guys" in gorilla breeding in Europe like Apenheul and Jersey (owning so many gorillas brings a lot of influence!) will almost certainly do whatever they want. I agree that the new guidelines will mainly apply to new-founded groups.

However leaving Jumanto with Rigo for now seems a good idea.

 

[Pertinax]

the "big guys" in gorilla breeding in Europe like Apenheul and Jersey (owning so many gorillas brings a lot of influence!) will almost certainly do whatever they want. I agree that the new guidelines will mainly apply to new-founded groups.

However leaving Jumanto with Rigo for now seems a good idea.

Yes, I agree on that- except I don't think Jersey are in the 'big guy' league anymore regarding Gorilla breeding- that all changed after Jambo died...
I think their current situation with the unmated females (Kishka, Sakina and Bambuti) all soliciting Yk and getting absolutely no response over a long time, is very bad. I can understand their reluctance to part with YK, and also the problem of what to do with him, but I think they should do something about it.

I've seen recent EEP recommendations for transfers- you can see that some of them just won't happen as the zoos won't let them, they are just suggestions really. Sometimes they suggest transfer of females to groups where the male is already failing to breed even with 'prime' females e.g. at Blackpool & Jersey. This seems pointless as it doesn't get to the root of the problem, which is that the male needs to changed..

I hope Jumatano stays put where she is for now.

 

[patrick]

well rigo has so far never been a natural breeder himself, so i'm not supprised his AI convieved son ya kwanza has only done marginally better. YK still has one living offspring though yes?

i really hope rigo does breed though!

 

[zookiah63]

One thing Jersey can do with YK is put him on a diet....what a boofer.

Poor Rigo. He's never had a chance really and I think Yuska is still trying to intimidate him.

I think we forget how complex these guys are. I strongly believe that, like us, they are strongly attracted or repelled by members of the opposite sex. I've worked in places where I've been the only one of my sex with a dozen of the opposite sex.....you wouldn't get me together with them for nix.

And there's no gorilla equivalent to Bourbon or beer for those "I did what last night?" moments.

 

[patrick]

very true.

though i gotta admit. if aliens put be in a zoo with a really unattractive female...

...eventually...

....after a really long time......

....since theres nothing else...

...would.

(i'm talking like at least 2 weeks here!!)

 

[zookiah63]

Yes, but you're a male!

 

[Pertinax]

well rigo has so far never been a natural breeder himself, so i'm not supprised his AI convieved son ya kwanza has only done marginally better. YK still has one living offspring though yes?

i really hope rigo does breed though!

The ability or lack of to mate normally etc depends on the animal's background, rather than it being inherited. Rigo has had so little chance with females I'm still not sure if he's a natural breeder or not. Just because he didn't like, or bullied Yuska in their 'pair' situation in the long distant past, doesn't mean he wouldn't have mated normally with other 'new' females(possibly even with Yuska too) in a calm group situation- however we'll never know as he was removed for all those years and its only now he is being put to this test.

The son Ya Kwanza is very odd- his handrearing from birth seems to have affect his social abilities badly. He probably didn't meet the other Melbourne gorillas until it was already too late. He breeds with just one female at Jersey, a very unusual situation!

Mapema- Ya Kwanza's son (and Rigo's grandson) just moved from a batchelor group to Duisburg Zoo last month. But HE was mother-reared and should (I do say should) be totally normal as far as breeding is concerned. That's why I said he's the bet to continue the Rigo line.

 

[Pertinax]

One thing Jersey can do with YK is put him on a diet....what a boofer.

Poor Rigo. He's never had a chance really and I think Yuska is still trying to intimidate him.

1. Yep. YK is getting fat but it won't help any with his breeding failure. He's had FOURTEEN years to breed with Kishka and Sakina, and Six years with Bambuti but all remain unmated by him...

2. Rigo and Yuska failing to breed naturally in the past is no clear indicator of whether he CAN breed or not. Chessington Zoo in Uk have a pair 'Kumba' and 'Baffia' which have had a similar history in some ways. They arrived the same year as Rigo and Yuska arrived in Melb.. Just like them, they were tiny babies, also possibly from one troop, and as they grew up they didn't breed either (Baffia became terrified of him). But 'Kumba' did later mate and father young with four other females. He and Baffia still live together, quite happily now in their old age, but they have never bred together.

3. If any of the Melbourne females show oestrus and solicite Rigo, but he doesn't respond, that would almost certainly prove that he's no good. Until we hear that news, the jury is still out though..

 

[patrick]

grant i very much agree that rigo never got a proper go. the situation at jersy seems stupid. they really need to look at bring in another male. waiting 14 years seems just stupid and if the eneded up gorilla-less they would only have their own reluctance to blame....

 

[MARK]

Maybe Port Lympne would let them have one of the spare males?

 

[Pertinax]

I think the Jersey situation is atrocious personally- but I can see they have a big problem about what to do with Ya Kwanza if they want to replace him. As we've said before, its virtually impossible to add a mature silverback to a batchelor group- unless like Motaba he has already lived with his new 'friends'. So (like his dad Rigo) YK might end up alone...

One thing they could do is split the group, keeping YK and the female he breeds with as a pair- bringing in a new male for the others.. At present though, there don't seem to be any plans in any direction...

Mark- there wouldn't be a problem finding a new male- from Howletts or elsewhere- the problem is where to place YK(Mzuri). I suppose he could go to the Port Lympne batchelor groups but I'll bet it would be impossible to integrate him.