ZSL London Zoo Rioting

[Shirokuma]

No matter how much the Tories and tabloids would wish it, it's impossible to turn this country into a quasi-utopian version of a 1950s Isle of Wight which never actually existed.

However I do believe that a compulsorary national civic service which would involve everyone, rich, poor, black, white, north, south would be amazing. But that would require imagination, vision and funding and I don't see much of that coming from our current leadership.

 

[johnstoni.]

Class privilege has sod all to do with it.

Stop trying to justify the moronic actions of these idiots. I hope the police do get heavy handed. They deserve the beatings they are going to get.

Well you can just carry on begging for the tyranny thats coming if people don't try and get a handle on why this happened.

Bullets won't just be reserved for looters. Once these are used, anyone protesting in the future will get the same treatment.

 

[KCZooFan]

I have spent time in my life in the poor areas of Kansas City. It seems to me the only time people bring up race is when trying to excuse irresponsible or even criminal behavior. White people dont have special privilages. The only link between race and class is that many more blacks and hispanics are poor (percentage wise), than whites or Asians. Sure people are treated differently because of their class. Often it is their own fault though (not always).

You shouldn't be making excuses for the scum that are causing these riots. As Adrian1963 says, the UK (and US) needs to grow a backbone and start using things like rubber bullets, or maybe bring in military to deal with this. If you keep making excuses for them, then it will only get worse.

 

[KCZooFan]

Well you can just carry on begging for the tyranny thats coming if people don't try and get a handle on why this happened.

Stopping criminals is now tyranny? Sounds like police doing their job.

 

[johnstoni.]

The poor police can't win!

If they try and stop the disorder then they get blamed for being too forceful so then they hold back and then get blamed for not doing anything to stop the riots.

No, you're confusing two different things. Police have been criticised for killing people at protests, for being heavy-handed and kettling protesters....but we're talking about riots here.

Riots - actual crimes being committed, remember this is not just civil disobedience, but actually criminal damage and theft, these should be prevented, not watched, by the police I pay my taxes for. I don't want my property damaged while police stand by. I want them to intervene. At a protest, I don't want cops to intervene, unless crimes are being committed.

I was at the TUC March and protests in March in London this year, the Police arrested all of the UK Uncut protesters who staged a noisy sit-in at Fortnum and Mason's, and everywhere I went the police ignored all the 'Black Bloc' anarchists who were smashing up the shops. Historically, the masked Black Bloc are often infiltrated by police 'agent provocateurs'.

 

[johnstoni.]

Stopping criminals is now tyranny? Sounds like police doing their job.

The point is that the police didn't do their job, it is now admitted they were told to stand by and let it happen then arrest people later. If you were a shopkeeper, wouldn't you be annoyed to know that? Wouldn't you want the police to intervene as soon as the first window is smashed?

Because they didn't, you now have a YouGov poll (commissioned by the Sun newspaper) today where the majority of people want curfews, the army on the streets, police opening fire on sight if they see a looter......that is what I call begging for tyranny.

 

[KCZooFan]

Because they didn't, you now have a YouGov poll (commissioned by the Sun newspaper) today where the majority of people want curfews, the army on the streets, police opening fire on sight if they see a looter......that is what I call begging for tyranny.

Besides opening fire, (rediculous unless rioters have opened fire), I think taking those steps in this time is fine. Curfews and military might help stop these events.

By the way johnstoni, I mean no disrespect from these posts, just trying to argue what I think is right. I hope I don't offend you.

 

[TinyRhiny]

Hey Everyone,

I can safely say that no animals were let loose through the recent troubles with rioters/looters. Even though it did get incredibly close (Camden/Chalk Farm), all animals are fine.

Thank you for your concerns

 

[johnstoni.]

I have spent time in my life in the poor areas of Kansas City. It seems to me the only time people bring up race is when trying to excuse irresponsible or even criminal behavior. White people dont have special privilages. The only link between race and class is that many more blacks and hispanics are poor (percentage wise), than whites or Asians. Sure people are treated differently because of their class. Often it is their own fault though (not always).

No, its fine, this debate is important....

Do you understand what it is like to be stopped-and-searched 4-5 times a week by the police from the age of 13? While white folk walk past as if you're invisible. Thats what happened in Hackney and sparked the riots there.

In Tottenham, a black man was shot dead by an officer was was 'scared', the police released his name to the press without telling the family, they left the press all weekend stating that there was a bullet in the police radio when in fact it came from a police gun and they could easily have put that fact out, they ignored a peaceful vigil outside the police station, they refused to address the crowd when an all-women group went inside to ask for someone to come out and make a statement. The protest got angry, then police dragged a 16-year old girl to the ground when she confronted them to ask why the community was being treated in this way. I'm telling you, the police DO NOT treat white families like this in London.

 

[KCZooFan]

Police are very often times stupid and do things that should put them in jail. In this case the police were in the wrong and should have been sued. But when rioters start commiting crimes, they lose all credibility. I cannot think of any criminal who isn't scum, not peaceful protesters though.

P.S. Kansas City is in Missouri and one of the top crime cities in the US (#11 maybe).

 

[adrian1963]

Just a quick one here surely this thread as gone past being about London Zoo so should it not be in the Zoo Cafe forum as this is a general topic (Rioting) and we are all going off the point the thread was about

 

[Maguari]

Dressing like a criminal is baggy clothes, pants falling down. And similar stuff. It is not too hard to look presentable, even if you don't have much money.

'Baggy clothes, pants falling down?' That description could apply to any number of subcultures, most of them entirely harmless - skaters, for example. I have to say that saying baggy clothes or low-slung trousers = criminal seems rather judgmental to me.

I'm assuming you've stuck to the US meaning of 'pants'; if you're using the UK one to fit in with the natives then yes, the police would probably have some questions to ask if someone were walking around with those falling down!

 

[KCZooFan]

'Baggy clothes, pants falling down?' That description could apply to any number of subcultures, most of them entirely harmless - skaters, for example. I have to say that saying baggy clothes or low-slung trousers = criminal seems rather judgmental to me.

I'm assuming you've stuck to the US meaning of 'pants'; if you're using the UK one to fit in with the natives then yes, the police wild probably have some questions to ask if someone were walking around with those falling down!

Ha! Just looked up the meaning, and yes, that would be a problem! Here is a song that illustrates my point.

‪Pants On The Ground American Idol‬‏ - YouTube

But seriously, people who take no care in their appearence are often criminals.

 

[Maguari]

But seriously, people who take no care in their appearence are often criminals.

Crikey. Don't go out without brushing your hair in Missouri...

Deciding someone is a criminal (or is more likely to be a criminal) because of how they look or dress is blatant prejudice - the kind of prejudice that got certain British 'newspapers' into quite a lot of trouble recently, after they decided a missing woman's landlord must be a killer because he looked a bit funny.

See: BBC News - Daily Mirror and Sun fined over Jo Yeates stories

 

[Maguari]

Slightly more on-topic - I was stopped and searched under the emergency powers given to police after the 7/7 bombings. I was in Kings Cross-St Pancras Underground with a large rucksack (and in a bit of a hurry) but had to answer various questions and wait while my name was ran through the police computer system to make sure I wasn't a wanted man. Even knowing you've done nothing wrong, it's a massive inconvenience and a very stressful situation - when confronted by two large police officers giving commands I defy anyone not to be nervous. To have that happen more than once or twice could easily lead you to feel picked upon.


(of course, what they didn't know when they stopped me was I was at St Pancras as part of the testing programme for the new Eurostar terminal, and had spent all day going through international-level security and scanners - so I was probably the safest person in the station!)

 

[KCZooFan]

Crikey. Don't go out without brushing your hair in Missouri...

Deciding someone is a criminal (or is more likely to be a criminal) because of how they look or dress is blatant prejudice - the kind of prejudice that got certain British 'newspapers' into quite a lot of trouble recently, after they decided a missing woman's landlord must be a killer because he looked a bit funny.

See: BBC News - Daily Mirror and Sun fined over Jo Yeates stories

Physical appearence and clothing are two completly different things.

 

[Maguari]

Physical appearence and clothing are two completly different things.

And neither are trustworthy indicators of criminality. Really, they're not.

The only clothing that is an indicator of criminality is if it's a prison inmate or community service uniform. Beyond that, people should be able to wear what they like without being treated as criminals.

 

[KCZooFan]

Of course you shouldn't treat people like that a criminals. But it is a choice and you should watch out for people like that.

 

[Maguari]

Of course you shouldn't treat people like that a criminals. But it is a choice and you should watch out for people like that.

'Watch out' for people who like to wear baggy trousers? What a terrifying world you must live in...

 

[KCZooFan]

Alright, I can see you and your political corectness do not understand my point. My terrifying world is actually a realistic world.