ZSL London Zoo Sad news from London Zoo

[Pertinax]

Gorilla Kingdom is 50-odd metres of floor-to-ceiling continuous glass, with a noisy viewing gallery running along one whole side of the outdoor space and on two sides of the indoor day room. This has obviously caused problems for the animals since the opening, with wooden screens put up inside the day room, and a standoff barrier now erected along the glass.

A number of zoos have built new exhibits like this with(initially) glass viewing at very close range, then they find the Apes react aggressively to people being so close, so they have to add additional barriers to increase the space. Bristol did the same in their indoor area. Others like Jersey, Paignton & Belfast draped camouflage netting over the glass as a screen but this makes public viewing very difficult. Gorillas seem to like to absent themselves from people at intervals too and the wooden screens in the dayroom are probably an attempt to allow that.

I notice mention/photos of Yeboah havn't been removed from their website yet and it still says you can see Gorillas and Colobus 'together', although I believe it has never actually happened(?).

 

[Shirokuma]

I stopped by Gorilla Kingdom this morning but it was very busy with noisy families and parents saying the usual 'look, there he is' whilst pointing at female animals.

I'm not generally sentimental about animals but I've found Yeboah's death quite upsetting, one reason why is that I would love to see a functional group of gorillas at my local zoo.

I find it annoying when all animals are assumed to be 'him' and always point out to people when they get it wrong but I just didn't want to be there today.

Yeboah's picture and information has been removed from the information boards.

The gorillas and colobus were briefly together prior to the escape incident but the colobus didn't venture far from the 'tree' as far as I'm aware.

 

[gentle lemur]

I stopped by Gorilla Kingdom this morning but it was very busy with noisy families and parents saying the usual 'look, there he is' whilst pointing at female animals.

I don't know why so many people assume that all gorillas are male - a female carrying a baby may be acknowledged, so long as she feeds and plays with it, but otherwise it's just 'look how big and ugly he is'

Alan

 

[Pertinax]

I'm not generally sentimental about animals but I've found Yeboah's death quite upsetting, one reason why is that I would love to see a functional group of gorillas at my local zoo.

I find it annoying when all animals are assumed to be 'him' and always point out to people when they get it wrong but I just didn't want to be there today.

Its always tragic when something like this happens. I think the only thing worse than this is where a male Gorilla has drowned in a moat- as did Yeboah's father Arti- as that is an even more sudden AND avoidable loss..

But London CAN succeed with this group, no reason why not I am sure.

If I had £1 for each comment I've heard of that nature over the years, I'd be wealthy. With Gorillas its usually- 'look, that's the big silverback' while pointing at a large female in the group while the male is asleep indoors.

 

[johnstoni]

I notice mention/photos of Yeboah havn't been removed from their website yet and it still says you can see Gorillas and Colobus 'together', although I believe it has never actually happened(?).

- From a 2008 trustees report:
"Guereza colobus – following previous stillborn neonates, both females gave birth to healthy young with the group all integrated and accessing the island daily."

- another interesting 2008 quote regarding island access:

"further development of Gorilla Kingdom Island was completed, including theinstallation of twelve new dead trees with interlinked branch work, the widening of the moat, planting ofvarious grasses and marginal plants, erection of another shelter and cementing beneath the boardwalk. Anew female gorilla ‘Mjukuu’ arrived from Chessington and appeared to be the link required to gel the restof the troop together. The gorilla troop came along in leaps and bounds following ‘Mjukuu’s’ arrival andeventually all four animals were allowed twenty four hour access to the island."

 

[Pertinax]

the widening of the moat, planting ofvarious grasses and marginal plants, erection of another shelter and cementing beneath the boardwalk. The gorilla troop came along in leaps and bounds following ‘Mjukuu’s’ arrival andeventually all four animals were allowed twenty four hour access to the island."

I didn't know the Moat had been widened, or that the group had outdoor access day & night, -presumably only in summer. I am a bit surprised at that as accidents/escapes could happen from an enclosure like this without staff being aware.

 

[Nisha]

The zoo have made Yeboah's death public. The article confirms that Mjukuu is suspected to be pregnant.

London Zoo loses its second male gorilla as Yeboah dies - mirror.co.uk

 

[Shirokuma]

I see there's the usual obligatory comment from Will Travers.

There's another story at the Mail website.

 

[Titus]

That's not bad news if Mujukuu is pregnant it will however make introducing a new male more complicated as someone mentioned before. I think Kesho from Dublin is an excellent candidate to replace Yeboah but who knows what will happen. I wouldn't mind seeing a male from the USA shipped over realistically though I can't see it happening.

 

[Bele]

I wonder if ZSL will now publicly announce the death of Yeboah , I checked their web-site yesterday and he was still listed as being there .

I wonder if a new breeding male was introduced fairly quickly whether he could be 'fooled' into believing a birth several months later was his offspring and so accept the baby .

 

[Pertinax]

That's not bad news if Mujukuu is pregnant it will however make introducing a new male more complicated as someone mentioned before. I think Kesho from Dublin is an excellent candidate to replace Yeboah but who knows what will happen. I wouldn't mind seeing a male from the USA shipped over realistically though I can't see it happening.

Agree on all points. The 'Mail' article hinted they may have to wait months to get another replacement, which is just more bad news.

On the other hand they need to ascertain what Yeboah died of. I have heard rumour of a link via Effie to the similar death of the previous male at Berlin 'Derrick' and they may need to unravel that before considering the next step.

Regarding choice of a new male, Dublin's Kesho is the only UK male(outside of Port Lympne's) who ticks the right boxes- being both unrelated and mother-reared and already socially experienced. Kumbuka at Paignton is a nice-looking male but was handraised and is related to Mjuku on both sides of his parentage( while Zaire is his grandmother too) so while he'd make a good display, both these facts makes his selection perhaps less likely.

In Europe there are unrelated mother-reared males of the right age in bachelor groups at Beekes Bergen SafariPark (born at Apenheul) and Loro Parc, Tenerife(various backgrounds) I also agree that somewhere should bring in a male from America at some stage too.

 

[Pertinax]

I wonder if a new breeding male was introduced fairly quickly whether he could be 'fooled' into believing a birth several months later was his offspring and so accept the baby .

I'm sure that would be possible. Depends on the male and his particular nature of course, and the time frame but I'm sure if one was brought in within few weeks it would be highly possible. A situation like this with females being without a silverback male for many months on end is very unnatural, it would never happen in the wild, and is probably an underlying cause of stress for them as they have no group 'leader' or protector.

However, I'm equally sure it will be a slow process for various reasons and may take months again before they get another. In which case I hope they still go ahead and just segregate Mjuku if/when she has a baby if they think its necessary. She may be more stressed by there being no male present at all than by a new one which she can't be with for a while.

The very easiest solution to this problem would be if Port Lympne suddenly offered one of their males to fill the gap (but what chance?)

 

[dirty harry]

kesho

kesho was born in dublin zoo Ireland and is not a UK male,he is an irish male

 

[Pertinax]

kesho was born in dublin zoo Ireland and is not a UK male,he is an irish male

sorry about that- he's an Irish male. Would still be welcome at ZSL though...

 

[MARK]

I guess if London zoo and Port Lympne have not seen eye to eye over the years maybe Port Lympne could step up to be the BIGGER man here and offer London a spare male for the GOOD of the species. They have proven the point that they are the BEST at breeding Gorllias

 

[Pertinax]

I guess if London zoo and Port Lympne have not seen eye to eye over the years maybe Port Lympne could step up to be the BIGGER man here and offer London a spare male for the GOOD of the species. They have proven the point that they are the BEST at breeding Gorllias

It would also help Port Lympne as each silverbacked Male that is moved out from there potentially frees up space for younger ones coming along.

Its interesting how PL have recently let one (and soon the 2nd one from Belfast too) go to Twycross though ZSL's Gorilla Kingdom is a far superior enclosure to Twycross.'
And they have just let 4 younger males go to La Boissiere in France which is where the recent London male came from.

I just have a feeling it still won't happen though.

 

[johnstoni]

I guess if London zoo and Port Lympne have not seen eye to eye over the years maybe Port Lympne could step up to be the BIGGER man here and offer London a spare male for the GOOD of the species. They have proven the point that they are the BEST at breeding Gorllias

I very much doubt that sending one of their treasured gorillas to a facility where two young adult males, apparently healthy on arrival, died within 18 months of eachother, while another, is percieved by PL to be 'for the good of the species'.

While Twycross and Belfast aren't exactly world-leaders in gorilla housing, they do have a slightly better record than London in the last couple of decades.

 

[Pertinax]

I very much doubt that sending one of their treasured gorillas to a facility where two young adult males, apparently healthy on arrival, died within 18 months of eachother, while another, is percieved by PL to be 'for the good of the species'.

While Twycross and Belfast aren't exactly world-leaders in gorilla housing, they do have a slightly better record than London in the last couple of decades.

That's pretty much it- it could simply enforce the existing Howletts/ PL view of ZSL and I can't really see them helping out in this case. But it should be noted that Bobby was at ZSL for five years and died in his sleep aged 25- and even in recent years Howletts have similarly lost several adult Gorillas in young or middle adulthood (Djoum, Djoulie, Bamenda, Kijo, Sounda to name a few!) so they can hardly criticise this loss too much.

Until quite recently Twycross had never lost an adult Gorilla, then they lost about five in two years, but Howletts/PL were still prepared to send them a male.

Also PL have now allowed 4 younger males to go to La Boissiere in France which, with the transfer of their last two males(to ZSL and Wuppertal) meant they were left with no Gorillas. Their track record (one death and one near death of young males) meant the EEP may not have sanctioned any more. But Port Lympne have obviously stepped into the breach instead, despite this history.

 

[Shirokuma]

Can anyone let us know what, in a nutshell, are Howlett's and Port Lympne's issues with ZSL in particular?

 

[Pertinax]

Can anyone let us know what, in a nutshell, are Howlett's and Port Lympne's issues with ZSL in particular?

I think you'll find this has been discussed before on other threads, but basically it stems from the large gulf which existed between the two styles of Zoo-keeping during the 1950/60's era at the two places; The 'Establishment' at ZSL, versus the 'Maverick' John Aspinall.
To each the other represented the wrong husbandry methods;
ZSL = huge 'postage stamp' collection/poor breeding rates/cramped urban situation.
Howletts= country estate/space/successful breeding/accidents/deaths of people due to 'befriending' animals' policy.

This is historical from the days of the late John Aspinall when both sides were very critical of each other.. I do not know whether these differences are still as marked today, but I think they are certainly present to some degree.