ZSL London Zoo Sad news from London Zoo

So do I. Virtually nowhere else that keeps Gorillas has ever gone so long between births and they have simply been bedevilled by a lot of misfortune, and in the past by unsuitable animals and less than ideal housing.

I rather doubt Zaire will breed again now,(but she could still surprise) Effie should (she has bred twice previously at Berlin but won't rear her babies) and if all goes well this time I would like to see them be allowed to add one more young female in years to come.(Either another from Chessington if they aren't breeding from them- or Namoki from Bristol).
 
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Good point, I typed quite late last night and just thought 'contraception, isn't it obvious :D,' without thinking of the different types and realising it wouldn't stop mating, just pregnancy.

Anyway, now my dopiness is out of the way, are there any non-breeding [all female] groups that she could move to? I doubt it since females seem to be in shorter supply than males, but if so could she be moved? I know it is a problem if they are too young/too old with actually moving them and settling them into another group.

If she did move, how successful is AI in gorillas? I'm sure I've seen somewhere that it has worked before.
 
Putting her on contraceptives would stop her oestrus so it would probably prevent mating too. However I think they must be pretty sure that Effie wasn't the problem. Also to replace her would be difficult as breeding-age females are still at a premium. There isn't anywhere I know of with 'females only' as its not a natural grouping -except London and that wasn't by choice!

AI is still remarkably unsuccessful in Gorillas, given the ratio of success to failed attempts. Provided Kesho remains healthy lets hope she stays as she is and all is well.
 
Pertinax said:
Putting her on contraceptives would stop/subdue(?) her oestrus so it would probably prevent mating too? However I think they must be pretty sure that Effie wasn't the problem. Also to replace her would be difficult as breeding-age females are still at a premium. There isn't anywhere I know of with 'females only' as its not a natural grouping -except London and that wasn't by choice!

AI is still remarkably unsuccessful in Gorillas, given the ratio of success to failed attempts. Provided Kesho remains healthy lets hope she stays as she is and all is well.
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Agreed. Fingers crossed for Kesho :)

Is the new-born Yeboah's from before he died? On the program the vet [or keeper?] said they had a pregnant gorilla, and wondered if the pregnancy was the new baby that has just come?
 
What is Bobby's history? It mentioned on the programme last night that when he arrived at London Zoo it was the first time he had been outside without bars above him.
 
macca said:
What is Bobby's history? It mentioned on the programme last night that when he arrived at London Zoo it was the first time he had been outside without bars above him.
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That is false and was put out by their publicity department,- because to them its an attractive idea probably (although Gorillas really prefer overhead cover), and last night the Vet lady repeated the same myth, maybe she was unaware of the real facts- that Bobby spent two years (2001-3) on Bristol's open Gorilla island before being exchanged with Jock (who was proving too aggressive with one or two females for London to cope with) and moving to London. And very ironic this- Jock had done the reverse, having previously lived on an open island at La Palmyre, France before moving to London and a roofed cage!!!

Bobby was wildcaught and spent his early years in a circus before going to Rome Zoo, in Italy. He lived there in a very antiquated and traditional barred enclosure with female 'Romina' (born at Rome). He was called Bongo 2nd. Rome sent the pair to Bristol in 2001. He never bred at Rome or Bristol and although he mated with Mjukuu (and Effie) its possible he was infertile. For some reason London changed his name too.
 
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Sharak_Jek said:
As far as I know he died of hereditary heat disease.
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That's interesting. I am not sure how it could be hereditary though, both his parents(Matz x Jule) were long lived, Matz reached almost fifty and Jule is still alive. But yes, heart disease is the killer in so many males in the middle-age group in zoos.
 
Whilst the programme last night was okay. The quality of the programme is questionable. Constantly repeated narration, being the biggest pain in the backside.

I thought the makers of the film would have had the care to give him a little dignity after he had passed. Not stuck sat upright with the ventilator tube still in his throat. There was no need to show those images. The vet doing the post-mortem showed him greater dignity.
 
Satan said:
I thought the makers of the film would have had the care to give him a little dignity after he had passed. Not stuck sat upright with the ventilator tube still in his throat. There was no need to show those images. The vet doing the post-mortem showed him greater dignity.
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I agree with this statement. It was a shock to the system seeing a dead gorilla just slumped on what looked like a pile of hay (from what I can remember). The general public does not want to see the animals corpse IMO, and it just gives a negative image to the zoo.

That moves onto my second point. There was that silver light with the gorilla pregnancy, but the rest of the episode seemed to be nothing but death. Vultures that kill their young as soon as they hatch (can't imagine that being natural behaviour, since who raises them in the wild?), the penguin chick and, of course, Yeboah.

All-in-all, it was interesting to see these things, but I think it subconciously made the zoo look bad with all of the deaths. We expect to see the negative, but I would have prefered them to weave in more successes. I think the other things were the spider phobia day and the rainforest opening, but these seemed to be little in light of the rest. That is my opinion, anyway. Hopefully we will see some more breeding successes/good news in the other two.
 
I disagree very strongly with this point. Whilst the programme showed some sad events, I thought the zoo itself came across incredibly positively. The keepers (esp the gorilla keeper) came across as very compassionate and caring people, that keep a realistic outlook on what zoos are about.

I do agree that it wasn't really necessary to show yeboahs corpse, but that was the only negative.

I found the programme fascinating. I haven't visited London zoo for about 10 years, but this programme really made me want to go again
 
mazfc said:
I disagree very strongly with this point. Whilst the programme showed some sad events, I thought the zoo itself came across incredibly positively. The keepers (esp the gorilla keeper) came across as very compassionate and caring people, that keep a realistic outlook on what zoos are about.
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I agree with this, the keepers were extremely caring towards the animals and that is a really good point that I had forgotten about.

I just couldn't help thinking of all the 'antis' out there thinking "yes, the keepers care, but this episode shows that the animals are still dying young, with none of the deaths shown being an elderly animal where it might be expected."

Mind, they think that about everything :D. I just hope we do see some more success stories in the next couple of episodes.
 
ITV series London Zoo

I started a thread on the actual programmes in the Resources and Media section. You might want to have a look. I did comment that I thought what they showed of Yeboah's death was pretty graphic and would not have been seen on TV in the past..
 
I was totally expecting it to be swept under the carpet (cut to a shot of the sun setting over the Casson etc etc), but you really went through it as a viewer as if there along with the team.
I do agree that the episode was a bit 'death-heavy' though, I especially feel that the vulture incident was not explained enough, there was no real reason given as to why the egg could not have been pulled some time before it was due to hatch.
I am struggling to find anything really wrong with it though, I really was pleasantly surprised at the type of documentary I saw.

They certainly 'told it like it was' and I wasn't expecting anything like such a graphic treatment of the loss of Yeboah, though I'm certainly not objecting.

The Vultures wasn't explained properly-I wondered the same and presumed the vultures would attack anyone trying to take their egg (or did they want them to incubate it naturally- more successful?), but if so why did they think they could get to the chick?
 
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I liked the programme; not enough 'non-fluffy' zoo stuff on the box. However, it would be nice if they pointed out that most animals in the wild, die young, and old age [or even adulthood] is more likely to be achieved in a captive setting.
Also, are we getting a bit too hung up on the reason for Yeboah & Bobby's demise? Lots of PEOPLE never get an exact 'cause of death', and that's one species you would think had been studied fairly thoroughly.
 
FBBird said:
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Also, are we getting a bit too hung up on the reason for Yeboah & Bobby's demise?
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I think a lot of attention was paid to this because they had died within a relatively short time of each other. I tend to think that was coincidental, but I think they were concerned in case there was a link somehow.

I'm hoping this long chapter of bad 'luck' is now closed.
 
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