I agree. No zoo can be perfect, as every zoo visitor has different opinions about zoos and the animals they expect to see.
San Diego Zoo San Diego: The Perfect Zoo?
- Thread starter ThylacineAlive
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- review san diego san diego zoo
mweb08
Well-Known Member
Good recaps so far of the various species at the zoo and their exhibits.
I'm rather surprised to see that you think the bonobo exhibit is on the small side. I'd say it's quite large. I can see your point more so with the gorilla exhibit even though I wouldn't describe it that way. I'd also say that the orangutans have ample climbing opportunities.
I'm also confused why the word concrete is being used so frequently to describe the natural ground of many of the exhibits that fail to have much or any grass.
I'll disagree with one of your opinions in a way that doesn't side with the San Diego Zoo. Your criticism of the lion exhibit is that it's dull, but while I don't agree with that at all, you say the size is fine while I'd say it's one of the smaller lion exhibits I've seen.
I'm rather surprised to see that you think the bonobo exhibit is on the small side. I'd say it's quite large. I can see your point more so with the gorilla exhibit even though I wouldn't describe it that way. I'd also say that the orangutans have ample climbing opportunities.
I'm also confused why the word concrete is being used so frequently to describe the natural ground of many of the exhibits that fail to have much or any grass.
I'll disagree with one of your opinions in a way that doesn't side with the San Diego Zoo. Your criticism of the lion exhibit is that it's dull, but while I don't agree with that at all, you say the size is fine while I'd say it's one of the smaller lion exhibits I've seen.
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Of course you make a valid point and my apologies to the thread starter if I have caused confusion by not following the topic breakdown he outlined. The honest truth (and I am being brutally honest) is I don't have the time or energy to invest in a lengthy case-by-case discussion. That is not to imply it should not be done, it's just not for me.I'd be interested to read the more specific opinions of @snowleopard and @Arizona Docent on the category which Thylo is writing about at present, given the fact that both of you have gone straight to giving all-encompassing closing statements about why San Diego is the best zoo in the worldwhich I get the impression is precisely what he was trying to avoid in structuring the thread in the way he has.
mweb08
Well-Known Member
Another question to be considered is should a bad exhibit that features a popular and/or rare and/or exciting animal ultimately give that zoo more points so to speak towards their score or take away points? The giraffes at San Diego Diego the polar bears at The Bronx would be good examples to use imo.
Polar Bears are no longer at the Bronx.
mweb08
Well-Known Member
I concur there can be no perfect zoo-and sometimes even really bad zoos have some redeeming qualities.
San Diego is blessed with near perfect weather and they have used that to great advantage.
Years ago they really were stamp collectors which I think all zoonerds approve of but their exhibitions were fairly ....meh. They have made great strides in exhibition upgrades but the stamp collecting has fallen off, IMO. Still far superior to most and I lament the sameness (species wise) that American zoos (at least) have become/becoming even more.
I view San Diego as at the top of the list but here is the rub. I think there is not
a zoo director in existence that probably deep down doesn't think if they had
San Diego's weather and budget couldn't do a better job.
San Diego is blessed with near perfect weather and they have used that to great advantage.
Years ago they really were stamp collectors which I think all zoonerds approve of but their exhibitions were fairly ....meh. They have made great strides in exhibition upgrades but the stamp collecting has fallen off, IMO. Still far superior to most and I lament the sameness (species wise) that American zoos (at least) have become/becoming even more.
I view San Diego as at the top of the list but here is the rub. I think there is not
a zoo director in existence that probably deep down doesn't think if they had
San Diego's weather and budget couldn't do a better job.
Not sure when it happened, but I visited a month ago and there was a sign saying the Polar Bears were gone.
I believe it was in December last year that their last polar bear passed away. If you look in the Bronx galley on here I’m pretty sure there is a photo of a sign in front of the former exhibit indicating that the zoo has no plans to hold polar bears in the near future.
My recent visit to the San Diego Zoo (see My First US Zoo Trip thread) was not the best zoo visit of my vacation, but if I could pick one zoo to re-visit it would easily be the San Diego Zoo! There is just so much to see there. The Calgary Zoo is the most visited zoo in Canada, but it only has one fifth of the animal exhibits that San Diego Zoo has!
Quick correction, they actually have both Asian and African bush elephants
Great thread idea! Lots of interesting discussion to be had.
As some of you know, I’m a large San Diego fan, and would definitely say it’s the #1 zoo I’ve visited. I thought an interesting way to explain why I love San Diego so much is to compare it to my #2 favourite zoo, which happens to be the Bronx. Oh and all of this is of course my opinion.
Animal collection first, and its not a suprise that San Diego wins this, although it was a tad closer than I expected. Reptiles is an easy win, the Bronx is decent for Reptiles, but SDZ is on another level. Birds is much closer, as both zoos have vast collections, although San Diego sneaks by in this category. Ungulates is one I think Bronx wins, it’s one of the largest collections I’ve seen. Primates and Carnivores are easily taken by San Diego. To round it off, I’d say that Fish/Inverts and other mammals are quite even, although Bronx might sneak by on the latter category due to Armadillos.
What I’m about to say will no doubt be incredibly controversial, and I bet most of you will think I’m completely wrong, but I think San Diego beats the Bronx on exhibit quality (dodges incredulous zoochatter). Let’s start from the top, in what I call “the stupendously brilliant exhibits”. SAN Diego has 4 of these, Kopke, Gharial River, and the two massive aviaries (3 of my top 5 exhibits, plus another that hovers around the top 5), while the Bronx has only the Seabird Aviary. Moving on we have the “awesome” exhibits, in which San Diego has the entire Lost Forest section not including the massive aviaries(only 40% of the largest zoo in North America!), Africa Rocks, Reptile Walk, Diving Duck Aviary in Northern Fronteir and the Asian Leopards. Bronx has JungleWorld, CGF, Wild Asia, African Plains, Himalayan Highlands, Madagascar, Eithiopian Highlands and Tiger Mountain. Next is the “okay to above average” section in which San Diego has the Sun Bear Forest, Reptile House, Panda area, Elephant odyssey, Insect House, rest of Northern Frontier, Outback and the Children’s Zoo. Bronx has the Mouse House, Reptile House, Aquatic Bird House, Bird House, Bear Grotto for Brown Bears and the Pheasant aviaries. Finally we have the “below par” area, in which San Diego has Urban Jungle and the Bear Grottoes, while Bronx has the birds of prey and the Children’s zoo. I’m not sure what the rest of you are taking, but I’m going San Diego. Let the backlash begin!
Bronx wins conservation, although San Diego isn’t bad at this and certainly breeds lots of animals (for example, they now have a baby Tapir).
San Diego handily takes visitor amenities. I’m not sure many people have said this, but San Diego has a truly excellent and massive gift shop. Add on the millions of friendly docents, wholly decent food (I’d recommend Alberts even if it wasn’t at a zoo), the incredible skyfari, and you have an excellent visitor experience. Bronx by comparison had a tiny gift sop, mediocre food, and no docents whatsoever.
I think it’s worth noting that San Diego really does have great weather, and this should be used as a reason for why San Diego is so great. For example, I visited SDZ in mid December, a time when it was snowing in my native country of Canada. The temperature was 22 degrees Celsius (71 for you Americans). 22 degrees! This weather has several advantages, such as giving animals who normally spend all year indoors fresh air, animals outside 365 days a year, and helping grow a truly terrific botanical collection.
So if we apply my thoughts to @ThylacineAlive’s categories, we get 6 San Diego wins, 3 Bronx wins, and 1 draw. Or 6-3-1. Add in weather and you’ve got 7-3-1. This seems right to me, although it’ll be interesting to see what others think.
As some of you know, I’m a large San Diego fan, and would definitely say it’s the #1 zoo I’ve visited. I thought an interesting way to explain why I love San Diego so much is to compare it to my #2 favourite zoo, which happens to be the Bronx. Oh and all of this is of course my opinion.
Animal collection first, and its not a suprise that San Diego wins this, although it was a tad closer than I expected. Reptiles is an easy win, the Bronx is decent for Reptiles, but SDZ is on another level. Birds is much closer, as both zoos have vast collections, although San Diego sneaks by in this category. Ungulates is one I think Bronx wins, it’s one of the largest collections I’ve seen. Primates and Carnivores are easily taken by San Diego. To round it off, I’d say that Fish/Inverts and other mammals are quite even, although Bronx might sneak by on the latter category due to Armadillos.
What I’m about to say will no doubt be incredibly controversial, and I bet most of you will think I’m completely wrong, but I think San Diego beats the Bronx on exhibit quality (dodges incredulous zoochatter
). Let’s start from the top, in what I call “the stupendously brilliant exhibits”. SAN Diego has 4 of these, Kopke, Gharial River, and the two massive aviaries (3 of my top 5 exhibits, plus another that hovers around the top 5), while the Bronx has only the Seabird Aviary. Moving on we have the “awesome” exhibits, in which San Diego has the entire Lost Forest section not including the massive aviaries(only 40% of the largest zoo in North America!), Africa Rocks, Reptile Walk, Diving Duck Aviary in Northern Fronteir and the Asian Leopards. Bronx has JungleWorld, CGF, Wild Asia, African Plains, Himalayan Highlands, Madagascar, Eithiopian Highlands and Tiger Mountain. Next is the “okay to above average” section in which San Diego has the Sun Bear Forest, Reptile House, Panda area, Elephant odyssey, Insect House, rest of Northern Frontier, Outback and the Children’s Zoo. Bronx has the Mouse House, Reptile House, Aquatic Bird House, Bird House, Bear Grotto for Brown Bears and the Pheasant aviaries. Finally we have the “below par” area, in which San Diego has Urban Jungle and the Bear Grottoes, while Bronx has the birds of prey and the Children’s zoo. I’m not sure what the rest of you are taking, but I’m going San Diego. Let the backlash begin!Bronx wins conservation, although San Diego isn’t bad at this and certainly breeds lots of animals (for example, they now have a baby Tapir).
San Diego handily takes visitor amenities. I’m not sure many people have said this, but San Diego has a truly excellent and massive gift shop. Add on the millions of friendly docents, wholly decent food (I’d recommend Alberts even if it wasn’t at a zoo), the incredible skyfari, and you have an excellent visitor experience. Bronx by comparison had a tiny gift sop, mediocre food, and no docents whatsoever.
I think it’s worth noting that San Diego really does have great weather, and this should be used as a reason for why San Diego is so great. For example, I visited SDZ in mid December, a time when it was snowing in my native country of Canada. The temperature was 22 degrees Celsius (71 for you Americans). 22 degrees! This weather has several advantages, such as giving animals who normally spend all year indoors fresh air, animals outside 365 days a year, and helping grow a truly terrific botanical collection.
So if we apply my thoughts to @ThylacineAlive’s categories, we get 6 San Diego wins, 3 Bronx wins, and 1 draw. Or 6-3-1. Add in weather and you’ve got 7-3-1. This seems right to me, although it’ll be interesting to see what others think.
As someone who hasn't been to San Diego yet: I really hate their website. They list very few animals, and they're all generics unless you click on some of the pages ("tapir", "elephant"). The map is awful, they put so much into making it look fancy that the trails are hard to spot and text is overlooked. I couldn't imagine trying to follow a print-out of it or a pdf on my phone while at the zoo.
They also seem to keep more species off-exhibit than the average zoo, which can be frustrating when you're on a big trip and want to see those species.
They also seem to keep more species off-exhibit than the average zoo, which can be frustrating when you're on a big trip and want to see those species.
Not trying to go too off topic here, but I will say that with the Grand Finals of the zoochat cup approaching, if things keep going to way they are, San Diego and Bronx will likely be the finalists. This comparison should hopefully lead to interesting debate.Great thread idea! Lots of interesting discussion to be had.
As some of you know, I’m a large San Diego fan, and would definitely say it’s the #1 zoo I’ve visited. I thought an interesting way to explain why I love San Diego so much is to compare it to my #2 favourite zoo, which happens to be the Bronx. Oh and all of this is of course my opinion.
Animal collection first, and its not a suprise that San Diego wins this, although it was a tad closer than I expected. Reptiles is an easy win, the Bronx is decent for Reptiles, but SDZ is on another level. Birds is much closer, as both zoos have vast collections, although San Diego sneaks by in this category. Ungulates is one I think Bronx wins, it’s one of the largest collections I’ve seen. Primates and Carnivores are easily taken by San Diego. To round it off, I’d say that Fish/Inverts and other mammals are quite even, although Bronx might sneak by on the latter category due to Armadillos.
What I’m about to say will no doubt be incredibly controversial, and I bet most of you will think I’m completely wrong, but I think San Diego beats the Bronx on exhibit quality (dodges incredulous zoochatter
Bronx wins conservation, although San Diego isn’t bad at this and certainly breeds lots of animals (for example, they now have a baby Tapir).
San Diego handily takes visitor amenities. I’m not sure many people have said this, but San Diego has a truly excellent and massive gift shop. Add on the millions of friendly docents, wholly decent food (I’d recommend Alberts even if it wasn’t at a zoo), the incredible skyfari, and you have an excellent visitor experience. Bronx by comparison had a tiny gift sop, mediocre food, and no docents whatsoever.
I think it’s worth noting that San Diego really does have great weather, and this should be used as a reason for why San Diego is so great. For example, I visited SDZ in mid December, a time when it was snowing in my native country of Canada. The temperature was 22 degrees Celsius (71 for you Americans). 22 degrees! This weather has several advantages, such as giving animals who normally spend all year indoors fresh air, animals outside 365 days a year, and helping grow a truly terrific botanical collection.
So if we apply my thoughts to @ThylacineAlive’s categories, we get 6 San Diego wins, 3 Bronx wins, and 1 draw. Or 6-3-1. Add in weather and you’ve got 7-3-1. This seems right to me, although it’ll be interesting to see what others think.
Back to the thread at hand, some excellent points of discussion Thylo. San Diego is undoubtable my personal favorite zoo visited, but I've only visited 21 zoos through four states, so my perspective is certainly limited. I think perhaps what the zoo does for me the most is over all presentation. I'm so used to the flat midwestern landscape that when I suddenly came upon the huge canyons, steep hillsides and lush vegetation it felt like anything else I had seen before. I understand that the hills could be a pain for some families or older gents to get around with, but I just feel personally that give the place a certain charm to it. The furnishings all over the zoo (though mainly the Lost Forest) are incredible, the food is above average (and I loved the Safari Parks food so much I started a completely different thread about it), the buildings are well put together, modern and sleek, and the place really sunk quite a bit of money just into making sure the guests had the proper accommodations. The double decker buses, skyrides and dining areas really enforce that, as guests are left feeling a sense of experiencing something that really makes them feel as if they are at a word class facility.
Please continue with the animal comparisons Thylo, they are intriguing reads
I have good eyes, but the text is often nearly the same color as the background for a lot of parts. Look at almost every use of "Hippo Trail", the aviaries, elephant care center, the children's zoo. The restaurant names on the map. There's 16 different types of markers plus 3 different sets of numbering systems and something called the "map locator", which is another numbering system that isn't explained at all.
mweb08
Well-Known Member
I really don't see the problem. Like at all.
But regardless, I think judging websites and maps is pretty far down the list when comparing these two great zoos.
I have visited once in 2014. I agree that much of the reason for it being treated as a crowning achievement of zoos is the cultivated image of itself that has been maintained, which I think is more about marketing and historical context than about the quality of the zoo itself. I enjoyed the zoo a lot and it has some very good species and exhibits, but there were parts I was less impressed by and parts I just didn't enjoy. I think of San Diego as an important zoo and a very good zoo, but nothing more than that.
Some reasons that I am not enthralled by San Diego:
- It is outrageously expensive ($50!!!)
- The double-decker buses and insane crowds make for an overwhelming and anxiety-inducing atmosphere
- There is too much to see. Yes, this sounds like an odd complaint, but it actually irks me when zoos desperately try to cram in everything to the point that seeing the whole place is a massive undertaking. I managed to see everything at SDZ, but it took me from open to close and I didn't get to linger anywhere. I like zoos having large collections and something for everyone, but there's a point where the quantity starts to distract from the big picture of the institution itself.
- I agree with other posters that the layout is terrible and their website is frustrating to use
Yes, it has great weather, but so? Personally I see no reason why that should be taken into account. It has nothing to do with the zoo and everything to do with geographical accident.
To end on a more SDZ-positive note: I love how many koalas they have, the species richness is phenomenal, their reptile collection is one of the best in the country, Lost Forest is a great exhibit complex, they do a lot of important conservation work, and (partially by geographical accident) the weather is pleasant and the grounds are beautiful.
Some reasons that I am not enthralled by San Diego:
- It is outrageously expensive ($50!!!)
- The double-decker buses and insane crowds make for an overwhelming and anxiety-inducing atmosphere
- There is too much to see. Yes, this sounds like an odd complaint, but it actually irks me when zoos desperately try to cram in everything to the point that seeing the whole place is a massive undertaking. I managed to see everything at SDZ, but it took me from open to close and I didn't get to linger anywhere. I like zoos having large collections and something for everyone, but there's a point where the quantity starts to distract from the big picture of the institution itself.
- I agree with other posters that the layout is terrible and their website is frustrating to use
Yes, it has great weather, but so? Personally I see no reason why that should be taken into account. It has nothing to do with the zoo and everything to do with geographical accident.
To end on a more SDZ-positive note: I love how many koalas they have, the species richness is phenomenal, their reptile collection is one of the best in the country, Lost Forest is a great exhibit complex, they do a lot of important conservation work, and (partially by geographical accident) the weather is pleasant and the grounds are beautiful.
@TZDugong Obviously your opinion is your opinion and this is not exactly the place for a Bronx v SDZ debate, but since it is likely that the two zoos will go toe-to-toe in the cup there are a few things I'd like to say:
1) The zoo has a lot of small cafes and gift shops spread throughout the grounds (a surprisingly ever-growing number actually) as well as the main gift shop and restaurant in the Dancing Crane Plaza area
2) Bronx has a lot more fish than one might think, as well as several displays for highly endangered species mainly in Madagascar! and CGF
3) I'm genuinely curious why you think only the SeaBird Aviary is "stupendously brilliant" when, imo, there are many much better exhibits around the zoo. Also why the Children's Zoo ranks so low for you
4) I have a lot to say on the whole weather aspect, and this is something I'll probably rant about at length later on in this thread for both Bronx and SDZ. Personally, while SDZ obviously has the better weather, I think Bronx does more with what their given considering the wild temperature extremes us Northeasterners have to endure (more later I don't want to go on one atm)
I could go on but I won't because like I said here is not the place, maybe a thread like this for Bronx would be of interest?
~Thylo
1) The zoo has a lot of small cafes and gift shops spread throughout the grounds (a surprisingly ever-growing number actually) as well as the main gift shop and restaurant in the Dancing Crane Plaza area
2) Bronx has a lot more fish than one might think, as well as several displays for highly endangered species mainly in Madagascar! and CGF
3) I'm genuinely curious why you think only the SeaBird Aviary is "stupendously brilliant" when, imo, there are many much better exhibits around the zoo. Also why the Children's Zoo ranks so low for you
4) I have a lot to say on the whole weather aspect, and this is something I'll probably rant about at length later on in this thread for both Bronx and SDZ. Personally, while SDZ obviously has the better weather, I think Bronx does more with what their given considering the wild temperature extremes us Northeasterners have to endure (more later I don't want to go on one atm)
I could go on but I won't because like I said here is not the place, maybe a thread like this for Bronx would be of interest?
~Thylo