San Diego Zoo San Diego Zoo News 2010

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jedibiscuits

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I know I'm a little late on the subject, but I agree that the Zoo's decision to remove Hoof and Horn Mesa was a huge mistake and a disaster. In Elephant Odyssey there's what, less than twenty species now? as opposed to the huge diversity of species they had when it was hoofstock.
Safari Park do you know which private collections these ungulates went to? I'm interested in the subject you brought up! I wouldn't be surprised if there was some money-making or saving scheme going on with the Zoo. Frankly, I don't believe they care so much about the animals, as making money. In my opinion they are NOT "World Famous."

I also agree that there is no diversity of hoofstock among US zoos. It's hard to find different species; every place has the same ones! I just don't understand why zoos wouldn't want to exhibit a variety of species and educate guests about all the different ungulates... especially if it will raise conservation awareness for endangered species. I feel like education is not the goal of zoos anymore, but entertainment is. They don't want to exhibit animals that people don't know, like rhebok and roe deer. They only want to have well-known, charismatic species like giraffes, pandas, lions, etc. It's sad to see how zoos don't like unique species, but they only want species that will entertain guests and earn money. The SD Zoo, especially, seems like it only wants to have animals that people will donate money for. I'm so disappointed that ungulates are no longer a hit at zoos and that there are no unique species in anyone's collections anymore.
 
Buckeye092 said:
I do not doubt your credentials but many species are doing very well in the private sector, among them: muntjac, asian deer, and oryx. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I believe you should research the population demoraphics more because like I said some species are doing quite wonderfully in the private sector.
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Well...i was talking about indian muntjac and formosan muntjac(not reeve's), indian hog deer, chinese water deer, manchurian sika (not axis and generic sika) and oryx i'm talking fringed eared and beisa not scimitars. So I think you need to do some population demographics. San Diego had all the species in large numbers, sent them to the private sector and now they basically don't exist in the states.

So now tell me how these species are doing better in the private sector now.....
 
Safari Park,

I don't wish for specifics, because I'm sure the buyers would not like it posted here, but I am curious if you can give us information as to which species San Diego unloaded all or nearly all of their numbers of into the private sector.
 
Western roe deer, chinese water deer, Mhorr gazelle, Cuvier's Gazelle, Chinese goral, formosan muntjac(one dealer got 18 head in one shipment), indian hog deer, khul's deer, altai wapiti, mesopotamian fallow deer, banteng, bearded pig, southern bush pig, formosan sika deer, perisian goitered gazelle, dybowski sika, manchurian sika, spanish ibex, cretan wild goat, macneil's deer, bharal, jackson's hartebeest, topi, nakheila dorcas gazelle, wisent. This is just the species i could think of from the top of my head.
 
oh yeah mishmi takin, alpine ibex, siberian ibex, literally hundereds of nubian ibex(i always thought it was so funny they wouldn't publish a studbook on nubian ibex nor any other ibex as it would clearly depict hundreds going to dealers!)
 
So why exactly is the Zoo getting rid of all of these species. I had no idea they ever had some of these species! This was an awesome collection. Do you know any specific places that they went to?
 
I don't think there is a money making scheme going on with the zoo. I think there is something a little strange about the donations of large quantities of animals to the dealers. I mean think about it Larry Johnson of Safari Enterprise in Texas is their favorite dealer here is a few of the animals he has received in recent years. 7.6 Rhebok, 3.3 Yellow backed duikers, 6.6 Tufted Deer, 27.15 Waterbuck, 1.3 Warthog, 5.2 Gemsbok, 7.8 Steenbok, 7.1 Slendor horned gazelles, 1.5 Sitatungas, 1.1 Red River Hogs, 4.6 Fringed eared oryx, 9.4 Mhorr gazelle, 17.20 Markhor, 4.1 Grevy zebra, 3.0 Gerenuk, 6.14 Cuvier’s Gazelle
Dianna Tatum of Missouri another dealer San Diego Wild Animal Park is quite fond of received 6.4 Bongo, 8.2 Nyala, 8.2 Dama Gazelle, 4.3 Eland, 6.4 Markhor in recent years.
We must also keep in mind these numbers are just the animals not omitted from the studbooks and many species like Siberian ibex, alpine ibex, blackbuck, nilgai, cretan wild goat, Arabian oryx, mishmi takin, white lipped deer, Persian gazelle, chinese goral, blue sheep, all the sika subspecies, muntjac, etc. don’t even have studbooks published. Wonder why….
 
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jedibiscuits said:
So why exactly is the Zoo getting rid of all of these species. I had no idea they ever had some of these species! This was an awesome collection. Do you know any specific places that they went to?
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I know some on here love the hoofstock, especially some of the rare ones, but the vast majority of people likely felt Hoof and Horn Mesa was the most boring area of the zoo. So I think it's mostly a matter of what appeals to visitors. I know EO gets a lot of flack on here, but I guarantee most people like that much more than Hoof and Horn Mesa.
 
mweb08 said:
I know some on here love the hoofstock, especially some of the rare ones, but the vast majority of people likely felt Hoof and Horn Mesa was the most boring area of the zoo. So I think it's mostly a matter of what appeals to visitors. I know EO gets a lot of flack on here, but I guarantee most people like that much more than Hoof and Horn Mesa.
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I always felt that Horn and Hoof Mesa was one of the best parts of the zoo but needed to be remade. When I was 8 I always dragged my family out there to see the Anoa, Addax, Bongo, Mhorr Gazelle, and Sable Antelope. They always hated it because it was the hottest and furthest part of the zoo. When I was 12 I drew up plans to what I thought was scale for Horn and Hoof Mesa, and honestly I would have hoped for my plan instead of EO..xD
 
mweb08 said:
I know some on here love the hoofstock, especially some of the rare ones, but the vast majority of people likely felt Hoof and Horn Mesa was the most boring area of the zoo. So I think it's mostly a matter of what appeals to visitors. I know EO gets a lot of flack on here, but I guarantee most people like that much more than Hoof and Horn Mesa.
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I wonder how those vistors feel about the Zoological Society of San Diego donating literally hundreds of animals to dealers who send them to unadequate private facilities and hunting ranches. Here is a funny thing you can do, get on some of the animal dealers websites in texas and florida and ask to be on their mailing list. It's amazing how many pictures of antelope in their barns for sale have the san diego ear notches or offer animals so rare they had to come from San Diego Wild Animal Park.
 
Safari Park said:
I wonder how those vistors feel about the Zoological Society of San Diego donating literally hundreds of animals to dealers who send them to unadequate private facilities and hunting ranches. Here is a funny thing you can do, get on some of the animal dealers websites in texas and florida and ask to be on their mailing list. It's amazing how many pictures of antelope in their barns for sale have the san diego ear notches or offer animals so rare they had to come from San Diego Wild Animal Park.
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How do you know that those ear notches are from the San Diego Wild Animal Park? I sure multiple places use very similar ways to mark their species. I also thought it was established in this topic that those sent were all sent to reputable breeders, not game ranchers.
 
Safari Park said:
I wonder how those vistors feel about the Zoological Society of San Diego donating literally hundreds of animals to dealers who send them to unadequate private facilities and hunting ranches. Here is a funny thing you can do, get on some of the animal dealers websites in texas and florida and ask to be on their mailing list. It's amazing how many pictures of antelope in their barns for sale have the san diego ear notches or offer animals so rare they had to come from San Diego Wild Animal Park.
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I can't believe that the Zoo and wild animal park would sell their animals to hunting ranches! They're all about saving species and they're dealing them to be killed! That's just wrong.
 
Ah kay, so I have visited the new Polar Bear Plunge this Wednesday while my house was being fumigated but I have no camera. So I'll give a little review/description of the changes.

The new displays all take a stand on global warming that it is occurring and is a problem. Probably half are really childish (like the ice cave) and the other half for adults (charts and informative displays), which I feel is a good balance. The displays all had this white snow and blue ice kind of theme and white painted concrete/snow was placed in the polar bear exhibit and some of the landscaping for some icy touches. The realism of this new "snow" was probably no different from Sea World's Wild Arctic and all the new displays gave me a feeling that I was in Wild Arctic at Sea World seeing the displays they had. The news that most of you will be startled with is that the helicopter goes onto this concrete ledge that you can walk on, but it goes into the pond exhibits. That means there is no longer any forested area between the walkway on the pond and the walkway above, but you can get a view of the pond from the above. Also there is still a forested area near the far end of the exhibit though for shade. A keeper also told me that there is only one female Siberian Reindeer left because all the others died off of old age. As for the two cage exhibits, one now holds raccoons(arctic fox exhibit) and the other great horned owls(pallas cat), which are Taiga animals so I think it is good enough geographically. New signs using the white and blue theme have been placed everywhere, informative and signs that designated the food area, aviary, underwater viewing, etc.) and the animal display signs are more informative than the regular SDZ animals signs. The old green rails have been painted teal, which I think is okay because fresh paint always gives a new feeling and teal is one of my preferred colors. Also, I really disliked having to move past a bunch of kids running everywhere to view the polar bears.

Overall for the average zoo guest, the new polar bear plunge is a great place to drag your kid uphill across the entire zoo. The average food stand has been somewhat expanded so food is a good option there too, nearby EO also adds to eating, restroom, and resting areas. The new signs and displays are interesting, but you'll probably only read them once, but your kids will always want to climb into the ice cave. Polar Bear Plunge also always offers great views of the polar bears sometimes at play, but the new enrichment wall adds to viewing pleasure.

To the zoo chatters, the new displays are all okay but don't give the exhibit any more landscape immersion. There is less shade because some trees have been removed and less of a Taiga feel. The worst part is that the forest area in the pond for endangered red-breasted geese is gone and the missing trees make the exhibit less immersive because you can see across the exhibit at the pathway. The new Great Horned Owl and Raccoon additions are pluses to the Geographical orientation of the area.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention that construction on the tortoise exhibit has begun. I spoke with Reptile Keeper Brett Baldwin, whom I met during Zoo InternQuest, and he said that the main reason for renovation is to improve the behind-the-scenes, out-dated barn. The landscape should remain somewhat the same except for the mud wallow (though the site and zoonooz promises "elevated terraces with cactus and succulents"). Viewing will remain somewhat the same too except for an area that will protrude into the exhibit as a contact area. I hope that, if the exhibit keeps the same sort of long horizontal wall, it'll have some sort of planter that goes in front of it at various points. Also the projected completion date is June or July so it'll be very fast. Lets hope that this ends up being one of the best Galapagos Tortoise exhibits as the zoo has some great reptile exhibits.
 
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Wow Otter Lord you sure get a lot of information from zoo staff. Are you just an interested guest (a "Zoo Rat," as I've been called) or do you have some sort of connection. I met staff too but didn't form such relationships.
 
Good description of Polar Bear Plunge from OtterLord. I was there for half a day last Tuesday and have already posted some photos. I did not really think about it until I read Otter Lord's post just now, but the area between the upper and lower path is a little less densely planted. Too bad.

As for San Diego losing its hoofstock, they still have those HUGE hillside hoofstock yards behind EO that are off-exhibit. There is an old vistor road going to it from just below Polar Bear Plunge that has been closed off for years and years. It would be nice if they reopened it and did something back there.
 
jedibiscuits said:
Wow Otter Lord you sure get a lot of information from zoo staff. Are you just an interested guest (a "Zoo Rat," as I've been called) or do you have some sort of connection. I met staff too but didn't form such relationships.
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Actually, I ran into Brett Baldwin from the reptile day at Zoo Internquest. He even remembered me too. We talked about matamatas, gharials, sungazers, and the tortoise. My dad got the info about the reindeer from a keeper, so that wasn't me.

As for San Diego losing its hoofstock, they still have those HUGE hillside hoofstock yards behind EO that are off-exhibit. There is an old vistor road going to it from just below Polar Bear Plunge that has been closed off for years and years. It would be nice if they reopened it and did something back there.
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Agreed, but I think the attention soon will Reptile Mesa and the Aussie animals instead of this area. If they did decide to make this area, it would be harder to get to than the old Horn and Hoof Mesa. I bet if they moved giraffes there or somehow made it appeal to the average guest more, it would be a huge hit. They got space there and if they made it have some landscape immersion, I think it would be a great exhibit area.
 
You just have to think logically about the zoo world. Surplus animals go to dealer - dealers have to make money = hunting ranches pay big money. There is no way of tracking these animals down once they go to a dealer. Logically thinking here for example, a dealer recieves a over represented large Greater Kudu bull - no zoo is interested in it - private ranches won't pay 10,000 to just look at it in their field - so a hunting ranch buys it from the dealer and they have clients that will pay 15,000. How is this so hard to understand....

You want a link to show you some proof....

This bongo and all it's family came from SDWAP....sent to Dianna Tatum's(favorite dealer)....she sells them to Joe Hedrick(animal dealer)....ends up at Lolli Brothers Livestock Auction.....sells for top dollar.....hunting ranch buys it and shoots it.

THINK LOGICALLY!!!
 
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