Save one Species

I probably should have given my reason. I want humans to exist long enough to see that their attempts at being "good" or morally right is not worth it in the long run.

That sounds a bit esoteric to me so could you explain that a bit further ?

Do you mean in the sense of the human feeling of superiority over nature or are you taking a cynical / machiavellian position on the human condition ?
 
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I would definitely save Sumatran Tigers. Rather popular in zoos, they are majestic to see up close. They are a unique animal which plays a vital role in the health and diversity of the Sumatran ecosystem. An impressive Apex predator; it sits at the top of the food chain.
 
That sounds a bit esoteric to me so could you explain that a bit further ?

Do you mean in the sense of the human feeling of superiority over nature or are you taking a cynical / machiavellian position on the human condition ?
I just want humans to exist long enough to understand that everything has an end, including civilization, life and the era of current living creatures. However I can't guarantee that people will learn from it.
 
I just want humans to exist long enough to understand that everything has an end, including civilization, life and the era of current living creatures. However I can't guarantee that people will learn from it.

Well that in itself is a desired civilizational metaphysical / moral outcome that you are stating you would like to see so how can you argue against morality ?
 
Why this species Cassidy ?
I feel that large, mostly or entirely black, flighted land birds have had a bad enough track record for extinctions. The United States and Cuba lost the Ivory-billed Woodpecker, Mexico lost the Imperial Woodpecker, and New Zealand lost the Huia. There are most likely multiple other birds that could be added to this list, including the extinct corvids of New Zealand, Hawaii, and the Caribbean.

I understand that I could instead have chosen such species as the Bare-necked Umbrellabird or the Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo, but feel that the ground-hornbills and hornbills together are possibly the most striking and interesting clade of land birds in existence, so the Sulu Hornbill was my first choice.

Also, if the Sulu Hornbill goes extinct in the very near future, then it will be a recent vertebrate extinction that happened with virtually no actual conservation effort to save the species. I think that it is tragic that this can happen in the 21st century.
 
I feel that large, mostly or entirely black, flighted land birds have had a bad enough track record for extinctions. The United States and Cuba lost the Ivory-billed Woodpecker, Mexico lost the Imperial Woodpecker, and New Zealand lost the Huia. There are most likely multiple other birds that could be added to this list, including the extinct corvids of New Zealand, Hawaii, and the Caribbean.

I understand that I could instead have chosen such species as the Bare-necked Umbrellabird or the Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo, but feel that the ground-hornbills and hornbills together are possibly the most striking and interesting clade of land birds in existence, so the Sulu Hornbill was my first choice.

Also, if the Sulu Hornbill goes extinct in the very near future, then it will be a recent vertebrate extinction that happened with virtually no actual conservation effort to save the species. I think that it is tragic that this can happen in the 21st century.

Very well reasoned argument @Cassidy Casuar !

Thank you for sharing !

I agree with you on both the tragedy of the species we have lost and the potentially impending tragedy of the loss of the Sulu hornbill.

They are indeed very striking birds and its really no wonder they have been so significant in human cultures in Africa and Asia.
 
Like Neil chace said, I would also choose to save the honey bee, more specifically, the Western Honey Bee. If it was just humans and bees on Earth, we could still probably survive by eating the plants that the bees pollinate and eat the honey they produce. Choose almost any other species, and the planet will fall apart, by wiping out the plant life, and most likely causing the extinction of both humanity, and the species we chose to survive.
 
Like Neil chace said, I would also choose to save the honey bee, more specifically, the Western Honey Bee. If it was just humans and bees on Earth, we could still probably survive by eating the plants that the bees pollinate and eat the honey they produce. Choose almost any other species, and the planet will fall apart, by wiping out the plant life, and most likely causing the extinction of both humanity, and the species we chose to survive.

Great choice !
 
I may support tapir conservation, but the rhinos deserve it more if one were to be saved. They have positive effects on various grasslands and savannas. To lose them would be a huge loss for both Africa and Asia.
 
Well that in itself is a desired civilizational metaphysical / moral outcome that you are stating you would like to see so how can you argue against morality ?

Well I don't know if people are sincerely moral? As someone who doesn't believe that true altruism exist, I just believe that people have ulterior motives when having moral crusades such as reducing the rate of extinction, banning the novel use of wild animals, etc.. These motives could vary from a a receiving a scratch back after scratching many backs (no matter how late that scratch is returned), to being honored/ getting positive attention for being a savior, or gaining power to eliminate people and lifestyles they consider to be cruel and evil. Maybe the term I am looking for is moral convenience. That good feeling of saving the earth or its biodiversity won't be worth it because everything has an end, including our lives. Even if we destroy humanity to restore nature (which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the last resort) to feel good about it, it won't be worth it for what has been built will be destroyed sooner or later be it with a bang or a whimper.
 
Well I don't know if people are sincerely moral? As someone who doesn't believe that true altruism exist, I just believe that people have ulterior motives when having moral crusades such as reducing the rate of extinction, banning the novel use of wild animals, etc.. These motives could vary from a a receiving a scratch back after scratching many backs (no matter how late that scratch is returned), to being honored/ getting positive attention for being a savior, or gaining power to eliminate people and lifestyles they consider to be cruel and evil. .

Yeah, I kind of went through the same vein of nihilistic thinking of questioning and doubting altruism for a while after reading "The selfish gene" by Richard Dawkins and particularly "The origins of virtue" by Matt Ridley (who now apparently is a lot more optimistic) and "Moral origins" by Christopher Boehm (which I found to be the most compelling of these books). Also at that time I was doing a bit of soul searching and specifically looking around me and where I was at the time at the incongruence and hypocrisy of academics between their words and their actions / behaviour towards others.

I personally think and have reached the conclusion from my reading that on a societal level we as a species are predisposed by a combination of our biology / genetics/ evolutionary history & psychology, social intelligence, acquisition of language to create complex moral systems (whether these have failings is beyond the point) of governance. This is basically a phenomenon that is observable globally whether pedagogically in the development of children to adults, in the archeological record of ancient civilizations and in hunter-gatherer societies in the Arctic or Amazon or in the modern megacities of the Western or Eastern world.

That said, these systems differ and there are ontological problems inherent in moral relativism but obviously you only need to take a brief glance around at human cultures to conclude that to a large extent the concept of morality and what constitutes a moral life differs widely between cultures. So what constitutes morality is therefore socio-cultural and determined to some extent by our socialization or lack of it.

Following your argument does the absence of true altruism (and that hasn't been definitively proven by anyone yet) and the fact that acts may be done unconciously as acts of enlightened self interest matter at the end of the day ?

Richard Dawkins, himself the proponent of the selfish gene hypothesis (and by the way there are very valid criticisms of a gene- centered view of what is the overriding selective force within natural selection) argues in favour of altruism and its societal utility (i.e. against neoliberalism and Thatcherite / Reaganite propaganda of the 80's ):

“We, alone on earth, can rebel against the tyranny of the selfish replicators.” and “Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are all born selfish.”

When it comes to your questioning of "sincere altruism" and conservation / reducing the rate of extinction and biodiversity loss I think that there is actually quite a lot of faulty logic there within your argument and the use of the term "moral crusade" is a rather crappy term and not really an apt one IMO.

This is because it is ultimately within our selfish self interest for the sake of the perpetuation of our species and on an individual level our selfish genes to conserve the biodiversity upon which our collective and individual survival / wellbeing depend which is to say that it is rational self interest to support conservation.
 
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Maybe the term I am looking for is moral convenience. That good feeling of saving the earth or its biodiversity won't be worth it because everything has an end, including our lives. Even if we destroy humanity to restore nature (which I wouldn't be surprised if that was the last resort) to feel good about it, it won't be worth it for what has been built will be destroyed sooner or later be it with a bang or a whimper.

I think you really need to read much more around this subject, develop / mature your ideas and practice critical thinking much more as you make very large leaps to very vapid nihilistic conclusions without having entertained other possibilities / realities.

Does the fact of human mortality and the finitude of human lives bear any relevance at all to the argument of whether we should work to conserve biodiversity in the anthropocene ?

That kind of shallow argument predisposes that ultimately what constitutes something being "good" and "worthwhile" pursuing is predicated upon the hedonistic self-gratification of the individual in the here and now.

Though that kind of nihilistic individualism and postmodernism may be the dominant force that permeates our current economic and cultural paradigm it is one which is both very new in civilizational terms and deeply flawed as to be collectively suicidal.

Previous generations worked towards building things (whether symbols, systems, monuments, scientific or philosophical theories, technology etc ) which they did not rationally expect to see the benefits of within their own lifetime and that has been the way things have been throughout human history until the peculiar idea arose in the 20th century thanks to the self absorbed / entitled baby boomer generation of the importance of instant gratification.

On this subject there was a brilliant anthropologist / philosopher who was called Ernest Becker who wrote a book called "The Denial of Death" (I highly recommend it) which posited that one of the strongest basic motivations within human behavior is our biological need to control our basic anxiety, to deny the terror of death and suggested that a significant function of culture is to provide successful ways to engage in death denial.

"Yet, at the same time, as the Eastern sages also knew, man is a worm and food for worms. This is the paradox: he is out of nature and hopelessly in it; he is dual, up in the stars and yet housed in a heart-pumping, breath-gasping body that once belonged to a fish and still carries the gill-marks to prove it. His body is a material fleshy casing that is alien to him in many ways—the strangest and most repugnant way being that it aches and bleeds and will decay and die."

So Becker argues very convincingly IMO that culture whether of the secular or religious kind is a symbolic system through which individuals, tribes and nations subsconciously are driven seek to obtain a symbolic immortality and denial of their own mortality through what he calls "cultural heroics" which are projects that are greater than the individual and their life (Nietzsche says something quite similar about this too in "The Birth of Tragedy" and the need to affirm the tragic aspect of existence like mortality in culturally constructive ways).

"It doesn’t matter whether the cultural hero-system is frankly magical, religious, and primitive or secular, scientific, and civilized. It is still a mythical herosystem in which people serve in order to earn a feeling of primary value, of cosmic specialness, of ultimate usefulness to creation, of unshakable meaning. They earn this feeling by carving out a place in nature, by building an edifice that reflects human value: a temple, a cathedral, a totem pole, a sky-scraper, a family that spans three generations."

"The hope and belief is that the things that man creates in society are of lasting worth and meaning, that they outlive or outshine death and decay, that man and his products count. When Norman O. Brown said that Western society since Newton, no matter how scientific or secular it claims to be, is still as “religious” as any other, this is what he meant: “civilized” society is a hopeful belief and protest that science, money and goods make man count for more than any other animal. In this sense everything that man does is religious and heroic."


If we are to believe that this drive towards "cultural heroics" in order to symbolically deny mortality as Becker terms it is at work subsconciously within individual human behaviour and human civilization (and that it can't be escaped) might it not be said that the conservation of biodiversity (whether of species or ecosystems) is the best and most constructive means of the expression of this drive and that the drive itself could be pushed away from the self-gratification and consumerism of modernity in that direction?

Becker himself had the belief that the industrial revolution and the environmental crisis was the result of the continuation of the "cultural heroic" system of the 19th century :

“Today we are living the grotesque spectacle of the poisoning of the earth by the nineteenth-century hero system of unrestrained material production. This is perhaps the greatest and most pervasive evil to have emerged in all of history, and it may even eventually defeat all of mankind.”

Finally, here is a quote (not by Becker) that I like on this topic:

"A man who plants a tree where none grew before is a benefactor of his species. We may yet live to see the ground covered with stately oaks and spreading elms, under which may sit the children and grandchildren of the present generation"
 
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