Several US zoos receive pangolins

Great news, especially that these pangolins already bred. I would be interested what is the formula of feeding them, and how it compares to the formulas used to feed Asian pangolins in Taipei and Leipzig.

I doubt any organized rescue of pangolins from food trade in Africa will take anytime soon, but then these experiences would be crucial for saving thousands of pangolins traded in Africa.
 
@FunkyGibbon: Thanks for the response. It deserves more attention than I can muster tonight, but I will write a proper reply tomorrow.

I note that neither of you actually disputed my point. However, since this is a discussion forum, and since I enjoy a good discussion, I’ll happily dispute yours :D

Resources for pangolin conservation are limited; should we allocate them to strategies with a better likelihood of averting extinction?

I should have made clearer why I took the 'line' that I did. I don't really think this is good conservation, because as I stated above it will probably fail, at least in a meaningful sense.

However, I chose those numbers to show that the 'evidence' suggests that there's little we will be able do to halt the trade. It's not really a question of habitat loss, as you know (in fact I read in Phillips' Mammals of Borneo that Sunda Pangolins would do very well living on oil palm plantations, were it not for the fact they are immediately killed by the workers). I think pangolin scales may be analogous to rhino horn or ivory. Despite the huge resources poured into the protection of elephants and rhinos results have been mixed at best, and it's not at all clear what the final result will be (although I'll happily conceed that there is plenty to be encouraged by). Pangolins are almost certain to not receive the same level of attention, and because many of the species are geographically constrained they are far less resilient to regional extinction.

My point is that if the evidence suggests that making a small contribution to protecting a species in situ will fail, why not try something else, even if the evidence suggests that that too will probably fail.

Please note I'm absolutely not arguing that we shouldn't try to preserve pangolins in the wild, I just think that zoos face a different set of choices to national governments, NGOs or private individuals about how to use the tools and resources they have.

With regards to transparency, I think if you take a hardline, 'Rorshach' style approach to morality then this was clearly wrong and the zoos no doubt want to avoid a battle on that front. In utilitarian terms they might find themselves on steadier ground, but again, I see no real advantage in running towards that fight.

Back to your central comment that I didn't dispute your point, I'll reiterate for clarity: I don't disagree that this is not 'good' conservation. But I find myself hard pressed to accept that this is better than doing nothing, which is what most of the world is doing. Is this better than setting up a locally operated, off-show, well-protected captive breeding centre in Togo? Surely not. But there may be good reasons why they didn't do that, and even if there aren't, as an under-informed observer I'm much more comfortable judging an action than a hypothetical.
 
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There is quite some overlap with the popping up of Bornean earless monitors in respectable collections in Europe (Vienna, Prague, Budapest) in the past years, which is also a species that is highly threatened by trade and in the monitor case all animals descend from illegal trade. The difference is that these monitors have a pretty good record of staying alive and breeding, which for pangolins is not the case...

Out of curiosity, have they *always* had a good record, or has this developed from a basis of high initial losses?

the real issue is whether the money spent in purchasing the captured pangolins, shipping them over here, and attempting to establish a captive population in America, especially given the many problems inherent in keeping pangolins and poor success in the past, might not have been better spent on in situ programs.

The crux of the matter here, as I have noted in the past, is that I fear that in-situ programmes are not going to save pangolins, and that given the rate of decline in wild pangolin populations we will soon reach the point where neither method will be sufficient; as I will address below, I don't actually believe the American method is the best way to go about things, but I do believe that it is foolish to "write off" any species which has seen problems in captive husbandry and poor success initially given how many species (gorilla, for instance) have overcome such issues successfully in captivity.

That said, it would be quite interesting to debate whether or not even this is worthwhile; for instance:

the real issue is whether the money spent in purchasing the captured gorillas, shipping them over here, and attempting to establish a captive population in Europe, especially given the many problems inherent in keeping gorillas and poor success in the past, might not have been better spent on in situ programs.

I honestly do not know the answer..... but I certainly wouldn't say that it was a *mistake* for things to happen as they did.

or with my stance that American zoos don't represent the most effective strategy (which could be a fruitful discussion)

Actually I do agree with you in this regard; I don't particularly like the way things have transpired in American zoos regarding captive pangolins. I am reasonably sure I have discussed my preferred option in the past but haven't been able to find the post in question when searching the forum so here goes:

Rather that actively harvesting individuals from the wild for ex-situ captivity (the American option) I would much prefer that captive pangolins come from the survivors of seized shipments, which at the present time tend to be sent to rescue centres until they are healthy enough for release back into the same areas where they were initially captured.... often only to be captured by smugglers once again. As such, I think it is worth attempting to keep and breed at least *some* of these individuals in offshow breeding facilities, ideally in Asia to avoid further transport of the animals as much as possible. Individuals unsuitable for breeding purposes could be used as ambassador animals for display purposes, but otherwise as noted these animals would be kept off-display until such a time as the population (hopefully) started to increase to the point where further individuals could be spared for ambassador purposes, akin to how the Iberian Lynx programme progressed here in Europe.

Basically, my feeling is that if individuals have already been illicitly harvested by smugglers and seized by the authorities, then given the risk they will be harvested a second time if they survive and are re-released into an unsecure situation it is worth trying to use these individuals in a captive breeding programme, rather than taking even more individuals from the wild than otherwise would have been. It might be splitting hairs to refer to such a programme as "ex-situ" when - as noted - I would be entirely happy if it took place either in the country of origin or nearby countries, but given the scope for multiple species to be found in a single shipment it is easier than calling it an "in-situ for taxon X but ex-situ for taxon Y" programme!

Also, "he"? Says who?

Sorry; you have never corrected me in the past when I referred to you as "he" to the best of my recollection! :oops: Point noted.

My point is that if the evidence suggests that making a small contribution to protecting a species in situ will fail, why not try something else, even if the evidence suggests that that too will probably fail.

But I find myself hard pressed to accept that this is better than doing nothing, which is what most of the world is doing. Is this better than setting up a locally operated, off-show, well-protected captive breeding centre in Togo? Surely not.

These two points pretty much summarise the way I feel about ex-situ pangolin conservation on the whole, truth be told :p and much more succinctly than I managed!
 
I'm making a correction to the last paragraph of my post, but since people have already interacted with the original I'll leave that as it is. Having dabbled with too many double negatives I ended up losing one, which fundamentally changed the meaning, although I hope the intent of the passage was still clear. The new wording is in bold.

Back to your central comment that I didn't dispute your point, I'll reiterate for clarity: I don't disagree that this is not 'good' conservation. But I find myself hard pressed to accept that this isn't better than doing nothing, which is what most of the world is doing. Is this better than setting up a locally operated, off-show, well-protected captive breeding centre in Togo? Surely not. But there may be good reasons why they didn't do that, and even if there aren't, as an under-informed observer I'm much more comfortable judging an action than a hypothetical.
 
Sorry for the delay. Unfortunately, pangolins were superseded by work and babysitting commitments. Well, you know what they say about children and animals.


Prelude

I don’t like the single-species paradigm in conservation. It’s not that I hate pangolins, nor do I think conserving them is pointless, but I do believe that finite resources would be better utilized protecting ecosystems and their functions. This is how I ended up with a reputation for pholidotophobia.

However, I am also a pragmatist. I don’t think pangolins represent the best use of resources, but, if pangolin conservation is our goal, we should use the most effective methods. This is essentially the same viewpoint at a smaller scale: optimum strategies have the highest benefit to cost ratio. I will continue with this second stance below.

Hopefully that clarifies my position and we seem to have reached a consensus that this program is not the optimum strategy. I think that’s why I’ve been struggling with my response: I largely agree with FG and TLD’s latest entries (or did they agree with me? ;)). Instead, then, I’ll focus on why I think this isn’t better than doing nothing at all.

@FunkyGibbon: For the sake of brevity and coherence, I’m addressing your points thematically rather than chronologically. Everything else I either agree with, or would be tangential nit-picking.

@TeaLovingDave: I’ve only responded where I wouldn’t be repeating myself. Needless to say, feel free to jump in wherever.

@Everyone Else: The following is long, dull, and you probably won’t agree with it. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.


1. Miscellaneous

Before making my own argument, I wanted to address a few points…

1.1. Transparency
With regards to transparency, I think if you take a hardline, 'Rorshach' style approach to morality then this was clearly wrong and the zoos no doubt want to avoid a battle on that front. In utilitarian terms they might find themselves on steadier ground, but again, I see no real advantage in running towards that fight.

Utilitarianism, at least to my knowledge, would typically hold the rights of the individual over any “good of the species” position. It would be incompatible with this effort, in the strict sense anyway.

Rorschach was the bloke with the leaking pen, right?

Retreating from my sketchy knowledge of ethics, “transparency” doesn’t necessarily mean broadcasting everything. Earlier this year, a paper was published on captive pangolin nutrition. The authors didn’t give details on the diets themselves, due to legitimate concerns this could facilitate commercial farming. That was absolutely the right decision. However, I find the total opacity of this program alarming. Not only does it imply something to hide, it also runs counter to the principle that collaboration is vital.

The One Plan approach to conservation is when all stake-holders, in and ex situ, work collectively to develop a coherent management strategy for the species – One Plan. The six recipient zoos have not only ignored the pangolin action plan, they have also alienated those “on the ground”. As it happens, I was talking to someone involved with African pangolin conservation recently; lovely man, tremendously knowledgeable, and incensed by this move. Needless to say, these in situ parties would be critical to the success of any future reintroduction program.

Lack of transparency also means this debate is, to some extent, speculative. Whilst I don’t think that speculation is wholly unwarranted, I have tried to limit my assumptions and welcome any informed corrections.

1.2. A Different Set of Choices?
Please note I'm absolutely not arguing that we shouldn't try to preserve pangolins in the wild, I just think that zoos face a different set of choices to national governments, NGOs or private individuals about how to use the tools and resources they have.

I’m not certain what you mean here, so I don’t know how far I agree. Certainly, zoos have different strengths (and weaknesses) to other stakeholders, with captive breeding programs a prime example. However, I disagree that they should necessarily play to these “strengths” when alternative strategies would be more effective. If tightening environmental protections in situ doesn’t play to a zoo’s strength, for instance, it can always support stakeholders better placed to do so.

In other words, optimum strategies should be identified from an evaluation of the issues at play, not adopted just because we can. Again, this has been done for pangolins, and the focus was strongly in situ. Even if it succeeds, an ex situ captive breeding program is fighting the symptoms, not the cause.

1.3. Pangolins and Pachyderms
I think pangolin scales may be analogous to rhino horn or ivory. Despite the huge resources poured into the protection of elephants and rhinos results have been mixed at best, and it's not at all clear what the final result will be (although I'll happily conceed that there is plenty to be encouraged by). Pangolins are almost certain to not receive the same level of attention, and because many of the species are geographically constrained they are far less resilient to regional extinction.

I know I promised a single-species approach, but there is an important distinction here. Elephants and rhinos are conservation “flagships”: they inspire the protection of their habitats, attracting interest and resources which other species also benefit from. Pangolins do not. Because they’re famously unknown (irony intended), efforts to stop trade will largely benefit them alone (or not). This is one reason why I’m happier to see megafauna receive disproportionately more resources – they’re a source of funds, whereas pangolins are a sink.


2. Prospects

Although underpinned by ethics and wrapped up in sociology, conservation is, at heart, a science. It should be based on evidence, expertise, and empiricism. Efforts to establish pangolin breeding programs have been tried, tried, and tried again. Shipping them to America and adding a slew of new challenges exacerbates, rather than eliminates, the husbandry issues that plague pre-existing facilities. To use an absurdist but apt metaphor, throwing a pile of pangolins at a wall and hoping some stick serves only to kill a lot of pangolins.

…see also the breeding at Taipei Zoo.

But this population is still nowhere near sustainable. If Taipei, with all their effort, expertise, and experience, can only breed a handful in the last decade, the American effort is doomed. No ifs or buts, no maybes or might-just-possiblies – it won’t work.

Perhaps some useful knowledge will be gained in the process, presenting a Pyrrhic victory rather than an outright failure, but this would surely have been facilitated by working at an existing facility, with an existing knowledge-base.

Hence…

My point is that if the evidence suggests that making a small contribution to protecting a species in situ will fail, why not try something else, even if the evidence suggests that that too will probably fail.

…You’ve answered your own question.

I do believe that it is foolish to "write off" any species which has seen problems in captive husbandry and poor success initially given how many species (gorilla, for instance) have overcome such issues successfully in captivity.

Funnily enough, I pre-empted the gorilla point in my last post, but left it out for fear of looking like a smart arse. Anyway, here’s what I wrote:

“If past form is anything to go by, your go-to hasty generalisation will be the gorilla. In which case, I’d suggest that our ability to meet an ape’s needs in captivity tells us nothing about a pangolin's. What might have a major bearing is if efforts had already been made to establish breeding programs for close relatives, because if they had, and if they had already failed, that would surely suggest this one will, too… Oh wait.”

To add to that, “has seen” misrepresents the pangolin situation; “is seeing” would be a better choice of words. Also, the ex situ breeding program is not pivotal to gorilla conservation any more than it’s pivotal for pangolins. To steal another ZooChatter’s quote from the great William Conway: “It’s great having gorillas in New York but you’ve not saving gorillas there” (credit to @GraysonDP).


Intermission

Q. What’s brown and sticky?
A. A stick.

That’s not relevant; I just needed a break from pangolins.


3. Costs

According to FG and TLD, an awful plan with terrible prospects is, at the very least, better than nothing. Whilst I’m sure there’s a better way to convey this point, I’ll now introduce a formula to explain why I believe they’re wrong.

Let’s assign the potential benefits of this program the letter B, which can take any value between 0 (no benefit) and 1 (saving the species). Since this benefit is potential rather than definite, let us give B a weighting; r, the likelihood that B will occur, can also be anything from 0 (definitely won’t occur) to 1 (definitely will).

And that gives us rB. The FG/TLD position states that taking action is better than doing nothing if rB>0.

For simplicity’s sake, let’s say the values for this program are B=1 and r=0.01 (it has a 1% chance of saving the species).

Using our formula, this would give 0.01x1=0.01

Whilst small, the outcome is >0, so FG and TLD would presumably favour it over not acting at all. However – and here’s the crux – their approach is missing a term. C describes the costs incurred by a strategy.

So, our golden rule is not rB>0, but rB>C. And, if I give the costs of this import an arbitrary figure of, say, 0.1, suddenly…

0.01x1<0.1

…Which was a long-winded way of saying that the costs incurred by this effort outweigh the remote chance of its success.

Now, the savvy among you may have noticed several things: first, I’m repurposing Hamilton’s Rule, for which I hope you’ll forgive the affectation; second, determining the likelihood of a successful outcome (r) is unlikely to be numerically precise, in which case I’d suggest “very unlikely is sufficient for our purposes; and, third, I’ve failed to define costs (C). To achieve the latter, we could stick to a conservation standpoint, with 0 being “no cost to conservation efforts” and 1 “dooming the species”. If we added a second r to C, and knew the value of each term, we could even calculate whether this effort did more harm than good.

However, such a narrow viewpoint would again oversimplify the issue, because this program has further ramifications. The rest of this post explains why I don’t believe the costs – to conservation, zoos, and animal welfare – can be justified for such a longshot.

3.1. To Conservation
The Bad News: 1,000,000 lost from the wild in the last ten years.
The Good News: 100 recently rescued from the trade this month.

(let's be generous and say that we can extrapolate this to 1000 per year and thus 10,000 in the last ten)

Those ham-fisted calculations show that we are losing this battle 99% of the time.

Honestly, I have seen nothing printed that suggests that these numbers are going to come down. Certainly not in the blog, which presumably sought to make the strongest case possible that ex-situ captivity was not appropriate. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that over the coming years pangolin species will go extinct at a steady rate.

I don’t dispute that pangolins are in trouble. You might even convince me – a trenchant advocate of landscape-level approaches – that fighting the pangolin trade is crucial, given the destructiveness of some capture methods.

To clichédly misquote Orwell, however, not all pangolins are equal. Whilst I don’t rate the prospects of Asian pangolins, in situ measures may yet stem the emerging trade in African species. This is concealed by the figures you’ve used, but crucial when considering the merits of an African pangolin breeding program. A long-term commitment from some of the world’s richest zoos could – realistically – have a major impact in situ.

Whilst this transaction won’t doom the species in its native range, it does legitimise the trade that is. As such, I’d argue that shipping 30 pangolins to US zoos is far more damaging than serving 30 on Asian dinner tables.

Technically buying wild-caught animals is supporting the trade, and it would be far better if they had instead sourced animals that were rescued. But given the disparity between the implied 100,000 animals per year traded and the 200 it cost to take 30 to America it is ridiculous to say this action has stimulated the trade.

If you were in a restaurant and the waiter produced a pangolin to be butchered before diners, would you shrug that off as statistically irrelevant?

3.2. To Zoos
If it fails it will be forgotten by the world at large (who let's be honest are oblivious to it anyway).

I don’t share your optimism. Similar scandals have rocked major zoos, including one which (according to ZooChat) refused to be involved in this endeavour on ethical grounds. It doesn’t matter whether the public cares about pangolins; they care about animals and they love a scandal. Zoos purchasing threatened species from a shady source makes a good story, with the potential to spread rapaciously in the age of social media. This is pure speculation, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if it was spun to make all zoo-based conservation look dubious.

3.3. To Animal Welfare

I left this until last for two partially-contradictory reasons: firstly, I respect one recipient’s record too much to cast aspersions and, secondly, it’s the core of the issue for me. Relating back to the opacity of this endeavour, I don’t know the ins and outs of how these animals were captured, acclimated, weaned, etc. What I do know is that this could not have been achieved without animal welfare being compromised.

Conservationists have typically been fairly ambivalent about this issue, but that is slowly changing. Compassionate Conservation is a field built on the idea that animal welfare should be taken into account. This doesn’t necessarily mean prioritising welfare over conservation efforts (the utilitarian and animal rights view), but we can strive to minimise epiphenomenal or unnecessary suffering within a conservation framework.

As such, I believe the animal welfare implications of this effort are a greater cost than the conservation implications. If you found my arguments surrounding conservation unconvincing, that may be because I’m not wholly convinced myself. This import hasn’t doomed the species, but it has harmed the animals involved. The financial transaction had a negligible impact on African pangolin populations, but a not-so-negligible impact on the animals traded by this man.

In this case, I believe the real cost to animal welfare far outweighs the remote chance of a successful conservation outcome.


Synthesis

I said at the outset that I’m a pragmatist. I agree that rigid adherence to best practice can be counterproductive, and bending the rules may present opportunities to make a real difference. “The high road is very pretty,” said my favourite Thrones character, “but you’ll have a hard time marching your army down it.” Sometimes the ends justify the means.

In fact, under the right circumstances, I could swallow every one of the costs I’ve condemned – for the zoos involved and zoos generally, for the pangolins involved and conservation generally – but only in service to realistic prospects. Believing this effort is doomed, and caring about the costs incurred, I cannot support it.

I think this is an argument I'm going to lose...

It all comes down to a value judgement. History suggests you’ll win the court of public opinion at least.
 
First things first; I may disagree with you on the issue of captive breeding of pangolins, but as always I do love getting into a nice in-depth discussion with you, especially when it results in a reply like the above :) we really need to find a topic we're both a) interested in and b) on the same side of! I suspect we'd chatter for hours.

I don't have much time for an in-depth reply right now so I will just address a few points that particularly jump out to me......

Elephants and rhinos are conservation “flagships”: they inspire the protection of their habitats, attracting interest and resources which other species also benefit from. Pangolins do not. Because they’re famously unknown (irony intended), efforts to stop trade will largely benefit them alone (or not). This is one reason why I’m happier to see megafauna receive disproportionately more resources – they’re a source of funds, whereas pangolins are a sink.

Although I agree this is an issue to some degree, I honestly do believe that given how odd, unique and - quite frankly - adorable in an ugly way pangolins are, this is more a reflection of the fact there hasn't been much of an attempt to bring them into the public mind; with more promotion and perhaps an appearance in some pop-culture medium or other, I believe that pangolins can become a flagship species.

If Taipei, with all their effort, expertise, and experience, can only breed a handful in the last decade

I'm not sure of precise numbers, but I think that dismissing Taipei as only producing a "handful" is something of an understatement; as I have mentioned in the past they are now breeding f3 individuals.

. In which case, I’d suggest that our ability to meet an ape’s needs in captivity tells us nothing about a pangolin's.

It does, however, tell us a reasonable amount about the fact that husbandry progresses and that abandoning something as "impossible" due to early failures can be rash. Ironically I had intended to write rhinoceros or elephant in my quoted statement, being aware of my tendency to cite gorilla, but decided that consistency of argument would come across better :p

What might have a major bearing is if efforts had already been made to establish breeding programs for close relatives, because if they had, and if they had already failed, that would surely suggest this one will, too…

Which returns to the above point, one which I think we're going to remain opposed on and which has a massive bearing on our overall opinions; you believe the Taipei breeding programme has "already failed" whilst I do not......

In fact, under the right circumstances, I could swallow every one of the costs I’ve condemned – for the zoos involved and zoos generally, for the pangolins involved and conservation generally – but only in service to realistic prospects. Believing this effort is doomed, and caring about the costs incurred, I cannot support it.

And this is pretty much also the summary of the issue of pangolin captive breeding as a whole - you believe it is doomed, whilst I do not :) and therefore the other factors will always be insurmountable for you.
 
@Giant Panda: Even when I made my earlier post, I was largely on the fence about this entire situation, for reasons that I didn't really articulate in my mind or on here. I agree with a lot of the points you made, and in particular this is what gets me:

The six recipient zoos have not only ignored the pangolin action plan, they have also alienated those “on the ground”. As it happens, I was talking to someone involved with African pangolin conservation recently; lovely man, tremendously knowledgeable, and incensed by this move. Needless to say, these in situ parties would be critical to the success of any future reintroduction program.

If pangolin experts and in situ conservationists had supported this effort, I would be much more enthusiastic about it. As it stands, their condemnation and criticism has a chilling effect and has dissuaded me from fully supporting this project.

There was one specific thing that I wanted to bring up, however:

Elephants and rhinos are conservation “flagships”: they inspire the protection of their habitats, attracting interest and resources which other species also benefit from. Pangolins do not. Because they’re famously unknown (irony intended), efforts to stop trade will largely benefit them alone (or not). This is one reason why I’m happier to see megafauna receive disproportionately more resources – they’re a source of funds, whereas pangolins are a sink.

Yes, elephants and rhinos do inspire protection of their habitats and that benefits other species. The benefits to pangolins, though, are less than for many other species. They are primarily endangered due to overexploitation, not habitat destruction. So while conservation efforts for them do not necessarily benefit other species, it also works vice versa: conservation efforts for other species do not necessarily benefit pangolins. You could argue that fighting illegal wildlife trade or the use of animal parts in TCM is a much broader conservation initiative that involves other species, in which case you might be able to protect rhinos and pangolins together using the same solutions.

On a side note, I think that protecting elephants from the ivory trade and rhinos from illegal poaching for their horn are also examples of "fund sinks" by your logic (although I don't know what your specific opinion is on either of those).

-------------------------------

I wonder if a better way to initiate an ex situ project for pangolins would have been to collaborate with Taipei Zoo in creating a global breeding population of Chinese pangolins. Had Taipei been willing to cooperate, zoos then could have gotten their founder animals from them rather than the wild, and could have used their preexisting husbandry knowledge to care for them. Additionally, that species is in more immediate danger of going extinct than any of the African species. Perhaps if this population fails they can try this plan (although if this project fails, I doubt they will be ready for Round 2).
 
...As we all know, or maybe some don't know, we don't live in a perfect world. We don't get to chose, or even like everything portrayed to us via media, via zoo's. Zoo's if one does the research shows all have a dark history as to there beings. Animal exploitation nothing new, doesn't excuse it, nor encourage it! Valid point trying to educate public of pangolin being in our world yes. Wouldn't be my choice of American Zoo's to trying breeding. What comes to my mind should of been Philadelphia ( was once know research of captive animal dietry needs), St. Louis Zoo comes to mind of zoo on the edge ( no pun there ), of course then there would be Cincinnati Zoo for it's research in breeding endangered animals. So indeed really the best, of the best America Zoo absent from this game. Perhaps maybe some where in the International Zoo Yearbook there is something on pangolins? That's where once noted papers on anything of depth of captive animals was best source to be found. Do they still print International Zoo Yearbooks? Since there does seem to be this swing of conservation of wildlife in zoo's as there theme, indeed conserving the pangolin makes sense! On the flip side, give the record of animal rights folks trying to get every zoo to ship out it's elephant and close exhibits, I can see the need for some level of secretcy. Does it again make it right, by all means NO! Again it isn't a perfect world. We have zoo's don't we? Indeed yes money channel into conservation and enirvoment best solution, YES! Again the lack there of education, and understanding of importance of ALL wildlife does present challenges that there are going to be native people's who think solely of using wildlife for what ever there means for profit, for food. There was a noted wildlife photographer out of Europe bought some land in South America right next to major park being exploited. When he went there to check it out, not only where there natives living on his land he was trying to save, the natives where continued to cut down trees for income cause they lived in proverty! Not only that he discovered additionally there where others now mining gold within the same areas. Point being of all wildlife, is being able to somehow educate the importance and value of wildlife, and the environment before it is to late. As I look at the clock each day it continues to keep ticking, and time isn't on our side, or is it? Like it or not, hurray something is being done for the cute, but no so sexy cute pangolin! Once there was great numbers of passenger pigeons that darken the skies. Our lack of knowledge about wildlife back then was they were blasted out of the skies like no tomorrow, NO TOMORROW! The last one dies in the Cincinnati Zoo ( her name was Martha ). Do animals die in the zoo sure they do, and still do. At the same time, captive animals live longer than wild animals cause they don't face the pressure and challenges. I not waiting to buy a pangolin t-shirt! Indeed YES it would be wonderful to finally see this cool strange animal, and get it off the bucket list per se'. Apples, oranges, whatever, one cuts chews on this topic of captive versus naturala better some making an effort to understand and know pangolins, cause we know there are those whom have no regard for value of wildlife yet are stewing them as you read this.
 
....with more promotion and perhaps an appearance in some pop-culture medium or other, I believe that pangolins can become a flagship species.

I normally attend the ZSL Scientific Meetings and was at the one in February 2017 on the subject of Pangolin Conservation.

It is very a long while since I have seen a ZSL Scientific Meeting so well attended as the pangolin one. There were no empty seats left in the Lecture Theatre so a crowd of people were standing at the back of the room and many late-comers were denied access as the room was full to capacity.

It is extremely encouraging that a talk about pangolin conservation generated so much interest and attracted so many people. (I think the only times I've seen one of these meetings so well attended was when the topic was gorillas, elephants or dolphins.)

Perhaps maybe some where in the International Zoo Yearbook there is something on pangolins? ....... Do they still print International Zoo Yearbooks?

Indeed, if you search through old International Zoo Yearbooks you'll find various articles on pangolins; for example:-

"Feeding Pangolins in Captivity" (1963)
"A Note on the Nutrition of the Tree Pangolin in Captivity" (1966)
"Husbandry of Pangolins" (1994)

And, yes, the Zoological Society of London still publishes the International Zoo Yearbook.
 
Out of curiosity, have they *always* had a good record, or has this developed from a basis of high initial losses?

A few Bornean earless monitors, generally singles, were already kept decades ago (one for about ten years at Bronx in the 1960s-70s) and based on the scant reports it was fairly straight forward. But singles obviously don't breed. With larger numbers having entered captivity in the last few years, the relative ease of general keeping has been confirmed. To what extent this expands to ease of captive breeding I do not know, but there have been several in the last few years. At least in captivity the number of young per breeding is apparently low. However, its wild status is likely not as precarious as previously thought. Recent records indicate that it is more a case of a species that was overlooked than truly being exceptionally rare. For example, a few recent publications have expanded its range to now include a larger part of Borneo, a study in 2012 revealed that it could live in streams in developing oil plantations (well on the way to becoming the main "habitat" on Borneo) and a study published earlier this year found it in high densities in degraded habitats. It may still be threatened by collection for the wildlife trade, but overall it is likely not as extremely vulnerable as generally thought until very recently. Whether the clear indications of hostility between males in the wild has been an issue in captivity I do not know.

However, it is apparently inactive by the day; both in the wild and captivity. Except for the uniqueness factor, perhaps not all that exciting as a zoo animal to "ordinary" zoo visitors (just another "brown lizard"). Whether a captive breeding project by zoos is necessary for the species is also unclear, but "better safe than sorry" arguably applies.
 
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@Giant Panda: Even when I made my earlier post, I was largely on the fence about this entire situation, for reasons that I didn't really articulate in my mind or on here. I agree with a lot of the points you made, and in particular this is what gets me:



If pangolin experts and in situ conservationists had supported this effort, I would be much more enthusiastic about it. As it stands, their condemnation and criticism has a chilling effect and has dissuaded me from fully supporting this project.

There was one specific thing that I wanted to bring up, however:



Yes, elephants and rhinos do inspire protection of their habitats and that benefits other species. The benefits to pangolins, though, are less than for many other species. They are primarily endangered due to overexploitation, not habitat destruction. So while conservation efforts for them do not necessarily benefit other species, it also works vice versa: conservation efforts for other species do not necessarily benefit pangolins. You could argue that fighting illegal wildlife trade or the use of animal parts in TCM is a much broader conservation initiative that involves other species, in which case you might be able to protect rhinos and pangolins together using the same solutions.

On a side note, I think that protecting elephants from the ivory trade and rhinos from illegal poaching for their horn are also examples of "fund sinks" by your logic (although I don't know what your specific opinion is on either of those).

-------------------------------

I wonder if a better way to initiate an ex situ project for pangolins would have been to collaborate with Taipei Zoo in creating a global breeding population of Chinese pangolins. Had Taipei been willing to cooperate, zoos then could have gotten their founder animals from them rather than the wild, and could have used their preexisting husbandry knowledge to care for them. Additionally, that species is in more immediate danger of going extinct than any of the African species. Perhaps if this population fails they can try this plan (although if this project fails, I doubt they will be ready for Round 2).

Giant Panda and Coelacanth have made many of the points I have touched upon in previous posts (and in far better detail); I think these two posts really do a great job setting forth my argument against the U.S. ex situ pangolin program - I also agree with coelacanth that if captive breeding were to be tackled, it might make more sense to build upon the (questionably?) successful program at Taipei, which involves a taxon of higher conservation value. I did have two things to add:

First, as respects to pangolins as a flagship species, the two prior posters lay out most of the arguments as to why megafauna tend to work better, but I wanted to stress one more - home range needed. Most megafauna (particularly elephants and big cats) require large areas of habitat to be protected in order for there to be any hope of success. When the carrying capacity of a particular species is low, the requirements of the protection of more land mean that many more species with higher carrying capacity (i.e., many smaller species) will necessarily have suitable habitat protected.

However, to play devil's advocate, there is a flip side to this: overexploitation of the pangolin in Africa and Asia is emblematic of two practices that I feel are still somewhat overlooked by zoos in the education field: bushmeat in Africa (although, to my understanding, many pangolins captured in Africa are destined for exploitation in Asia), and ongoing problems with traditional medicine and culinary practices in Asia. Both of these issues could arguably use flagship species. Of course, this begs the response that there are already numerous species (including megafauna) already held in captivity that are more easily and successfully maintained than pangolins (e.g., gorillas, other African primates, and red river hogs for bushmeat; tigers, Asian bears, Asian turtles for Asian wildlife trade) - so I don't think this argument is terribly persuasive.

Secondly, I wanted to bring up a small issue that has bothered me with respect to Taipei's success, whatever it might be, and these African pangolins in the U.S. - Justin Miller has, in some of the articles and coverage of this issue, suggested that he is responsible for some breakthroughs in pangolin husbandry (particularly diet) that have led to the "success" of the U.S. pangolin population he established. Are these breakthroughs really? Wouldn't it have made more sense for any zoo population to build upon the Taipei program? Given the lack of overall transparency and the troubling numbers we have seen (especially the huge loss of 1/3 of zoo-held individuals), how can the institutions at issue point to this as being a necessary program?
 
Does anyone know what these zoos are actually feeding the pangolins?
...anyone interested in the diet of captive pangolins I found this very in depth paper: [ Technical Review] History and Dietary Husbandry of Pangolins in Captivity Ci Wen Yang. It is very in depth and ALOT of essential information and recorded history of species through the years in zoo's across the globe! Please check it out!
What is interesting about the difference of diets used by many zoo's is the protein content, and realizing that pangolins are selective to eating only certain types of ants and termites. Mineral content is also important as one can see like in the US zoo's the sterile formulas absent of raw natural minerals. Whereas in the Taipei diet soil is included. This makes sense to me as sees that feeding in the termite mound, or digging in the dirt soil, and small rocks have to be ingested with those ants. Could this be a missing ingredient that aids in the internal digestive tract of the pangolin? Minerals ingested that help grind it's prey because they have no teeth for chewing. Interesting point to consider and is the again Taipei included soil into the diet, and unlike US zoo's that exclude this ingredient hence their captive diet is more sterile and void natural elements that aid in digestion. Fascinating topic!
 
Thank you GREAT article love it! One of the great things of conservation to, maybe it's hidden element, is being able to buy time per se'. As I posted in an earlier blog here the clock is ticking regardless, somehow someway it's still possible to buy time regardless of the negatives when possible. Not trying to overtake the conversation here, rather just someone sharing a point of view from a different angle, and to giving hope alive. Giving a species a voice that may not have one. Trying to put some logical back into the zoo. Many question why? Others will say WHY NOT!
Being the difference and making a difference, rather than standing by and watching life disappear.
 
And here was me thinking I could bore you all into submission…

Seriously, I really appreciate the thoughtful replies from @TeaLovingDave, @Coelacanth18, and @jibster. I've responded again under broad themes, focusing on flagships first and Taipei second.


Flagships:

Although I agree this is an issue to some degree, I honestly do believe that given how odd, unique and - quite frankly - adorable in an ugly way pangolins are, this is more a reflection of the fact there hasn't been much of an attempt to bring them into the public mind; with more promotion and perhaps an appearance in some pop-culture medium or other, I believe that pangolins can become a flagship species.

As you can see from my post here (#4)…

Are pangolins potentially as appealing as koalas, pandas, sea otters, etc.?

…I don’t disagree. In fact, a paper just published in Biological Conservation reported that the conservation of even little-known EDGE species benefits from targeted marketing campaigns (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320716307510). One quote in particular leaps out:

"We showed that additional marketing can have a large impact on donor behaviour, potentially increasing the interest of potential donors towards unappealing species by up to 26 times. This increase would more than equal the amount raised by campaigns using appealing species without additional promotion."

Pangolins, I imagine, would be no exception.

On a side note, I think that protecting elephants from the ivory trade and rhinos from illegal poaching for their horn are also examples of "fund sinks" by your logic (although I don't know what your specific opinion is on either of those).

For flagships, it doesn’t necessarily matter whether funds go to habitat conservation or if they’re diverted into more targeted efforts like preventing overexploitation. The latter may not directly benefit other species, but preserving the flagship can still benefit them indirectly. So, by my logic, if elephants/rhinos generate more money than they use, they are a source of funds (even if some conservation efforts, taken singly, appear to be sinks). I don’t honestly know what the outcome of that calculation would be for elephants and/or rhinos, but I imagine they’re a source in some places and a sink in others.

More generally, perhaps you noticed the careful wording of my previous post (happier ≠ happy). To again reference my response to David’s thread*:

“For my part, we should worry less about creating or promoting "animal superstars" and recognize that the species conservation paradigm is itself an endangered species. Zoos should instead educate visitors on the value of biodiversity and lead by example in supporting habitat conservation, rather than channelling resources into their most popular species.”

Much as I might want to, however, I agree that sinking existing flagships would be counterproductive. What I really disagree with is attempts to build any more – pangolins included. Despite their best efforts to convince me otherwise, I don’t believe the general public are stupid. They can get behind habitat conservation without someone shoving an orangutan in their face.

There are countless cases of ecosystems becoming their own flagships, but my favourite examples are two of the biggest: the Amazon Rainforest and the Great Barrier Reef. People don’t care about these habitats because of jaguars and sea turtles; they care because they're recognised as valuable in their own right. And valuable, for the record, not just intrinsically, but as providers of food, water, medicine, oxygen, livelihoods, etc. etc. Oh and by the way they contain some pretty amazing animals, too.

Call me an idealist, but I think that’s a stronger argument than: “This is the endangered pangolin. You might recognize him from the recent Jungle Book movie. Please like and share.”

First, as respects to pangolins as a flagship species, the two prior posters lay out most of the arguments as to why megafauna tend to work better, but I wanted to stress one more - home range needed. Most megafauna (particularly elephants and big cats) require large areas of habitat to be protected in order for there to be any hope of success. When the carrying capacity of a particular species is low, the requirements of the protection of more land mean that many more species with higher carrying capacity (i.e., many smaller species) will necessarily have suitable habitat protected.

This is true: megafauna tend to be good umbrella species (conserving them automatically protects everything else). The last of the holy trinity is that they are often ecological keystones (their extinction has disproportionately large ramifications in terms of biodiversity loss and ecosystem functioning). Taken together – flagships, umbrellas, and keystones – they make a compelling, evidence-based case for targeted megafauna conservation. To my knowledge, none apply to pangolins.


Taipei and Captive Breeding:

I'm not sure of precise numbers, but I think that dismissing Taipei as only producing a "handful" is something of an understatement; as I have mentioned in the past they are now breeding f3 individuals.

That was very much an anomaly. As far as I’m aware, they’ve had three successful captive births in the last ten years, plus one more using AI. Additional info is welcome, but four is only a handful.

Anyone know how many they currently hold?


I agree, but we should be careful. Experts in situ don’t necessarily know the latest developments ex situ, as demonstrated by @FunkyGibbon’s justified criticism of the article I posted (it’s leaky, but it still holds water). As I’ve said, however, I think riding roughshod over those concerns was the wrong way to go about this.

I wonder if a better way to initiate an ex situ project for pangolins would have been to collaborate with Taipei Zoo in creating a global breeding population of Chinese pangolins. Had Taipei been willing to cooperate, zoos then could have gotten their founder animals from them rather than the wild, and could have used their preexisting husbandry knowledge to care for them. Additionally, that species is in more immediate danger of going extinct than any of the African species. Perhaps if this population fails they can try this plan (although if this project fails, I doubt they will be ready for Round 2).

I believe most of Taipei’s animals still do originate from the wild. Do we know they didn’t consult on this?

Secondly, I wanted to bring up a small issue that has bothered me with respect to Taipei's success, whatever it might be, and these African pangolins in the U.S. - Justin Miller has, in some of the articles and coverage of this issue, suggested that he is responsible for some breakthroughs in pangolin husbandry (particularly diet) that have led to the "success" of the U.S. pangolin population he established. Are these breakthroughs really? Wouldn't it have made more sense for any zoo population to build upon the Taipei program? Given the lack of overall transparency and the troubling numbers we have seen (especially the huge loss of 1/3 of zoo-held individuals), how can the institutions at issue point to this as being a necessary program?

That, Detective, is the right question [or set of questions] ;)


***


First things first; I may disagree with you on the issue of captive breeding of pangolins, but as always I do love getting into a nice in-depth discussion with you, especially when it results in a reply like the above :) we really need to find a topic we're both a) interested in and b) on the same side of! I suspect we'd chatter for hours.

Ditto. I plan to retire from this topic when the present discussion fizzles out, but I have enjoyed “The Pangolin Trilogy”. Good game ;)


*Well, I’m the only person who tends to agree with me.
 
I just want to drop in a line to say that I fully intend to follow up the latest series of discussion points. However, it's exam season and I've just hit that point where I suddenly realise how much work I have to get through before the end of the semester. I will save my response for the inevitable procrastination writing break which I imagine will hit in a few days. Needless to say I am enjoying the current state of affairs, online.
 
That was very much an anomaly. As far as I’m aware, they’ve had three successful captive births in the last ten years, plus one more using AI. Additional info is welcome, but four is only a handful.

I don't actually know for sure how many have been born, but due to the way in which the f1/f2/f3 terminology works, there would have to have been at *least* five successful births in total, with even this total presuming a high level of inbreeding.

The result of a given breeding is always assigned a generational number which follows on from the "lower" of the two parents, so for instance the offspring of a f2 individual and a wildcaught individual would be f1, not f3. As such, we can reach the total of five if the f3 individual was the result of the following lineage:

Wild x Wild - F1a
Wild x Wild - F1b
------
F1a x F1b - F2a
F1a x F1b - F2b
------
F2a x F2b - F3a

This presumes that the f2 individuals were siblings, and bred to produce the f3 individual; if they were not siblings, then further f1 births are necessary for the generations to work. Pairing a f1 parent with its f2 offspring would not produce an f3 individual, merely another f2 individual. Equally, further wild input at any point would produce an f1 individual.

The other circumstantial reason I believe there have to have been more than four births at the collection is that the pair which recently arrived at Leipzig from Taipei were said to be a wildcaught pair which had successfully bred at the latter collection; I'm not sure that Taipei would send away a proven pair if they had met with as little success as you imply.

Ditto. I plan to retire from this topic when the present discussion fizzles out

That had been my intention prior to this discussion too, but.....

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I don't actually know for sure how many have been born, but due to the way in which the f1/f2/f3 terminology works, there would have to have been at *least* five successful births in total, with even this total presuming a high level of inbreeding.

The result of a given breeding is always assigned a generational number which follows on from the "lower" of the two parents, so for instance the offspring of a f2 individual and a wildcaught individual would be f1, not f3. As such, we can reach the total of five if the f3 individual was the result of the following lineage:

Wild x Wild - F1a
Wild x Wild - F1b
------
F1a x F1b - F2a
F1a x F1b - F2b
------
F2a x F2b - F3a

This presumes that the f2 individuals were siblings, and bred to produce the f3 individual; if they were not siblings, then further f1 births are necessary for the generations to work. Pairing a f1 parent with its f2 offspring would not produce an f3 individual, merely another f2 individual. Equally, further wild input at any point would produce an f1 individual.

The other circumstantial reason I believe there have to have been more than four births at the collection is that the pair which recently arrived at Leipzig from Taipei were said to be a wildcaught pair which had successfully bred at the latter collection; I'm not sure that Taipei would send away a proven pair if they had met with as little success as you imply.

Possibly.

I asked last time for accurate records and no-one knew then either, so I'm stuck with published information. This is pretty comprehensive until recently, but I'm less certain about the current situation. Incidentally, my total doesn't include stillbirths or additional births where the offspring were conceived in the wild, and several were born before 2007. If anyone does have up-to-date records, I'd be very interested to know (either here or privately).

As for the F3, I've only ever seen it referred to as such in non-specialist circles. My assumption, therefore, was that it was only down one lineage. Again, happy to have that confirmed or denied.

Edit: I just read that back and it sounded like I don't have a clue. I'm certain the number of successful captive breedings is still only a "handful" (definition pending ;)).
 
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