shooters in national parks of nsw australia.

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georgeL

New Member
premier of nsw does a deal with the shooters and fishing party so he could sell off electricity power plants,
the shooters party gets to shoot in national parks of nsw, oh we only will be shooting feral animals ?? what if you miss the poor sole on the otherside of the bush taking photos.:mad:
 
This is the exact same reasoning that was given 6 years ago when NSW state forests were open to R (restricted) licensed hunters. All your fears were shown to be false then and will again. Most of the parks proposed were actually state forests open to hunting until they were recently made National Parks. This is a very successful program which is being rolled out to other areas with feral animal problems. National Parks have had millions of dollars and years to control feral species, and it is a fact that they do not have the resources to do it. Would you rather our native species become extinct?
 
Agree with monty completely. with an estimate 35 million feral cats in australia every extra bullet helps. and who knows how many foxes or pigs. in the 30km stretch from the family property to town i see atleast one fox and on average about 10. Im guessing for every fox i see there are alot more i dont. about 15 kms of this road is national park and state forest providing a safe haven for pests.
 
it seems like an alright idea. I just worry about what happens if hunters clean out the vermin from their hunting grounds.
 
In state forests which have been open to hunting for 6 years pest animals numbers have been reduced, but will never be eradicated. The only ones with high numbers were places like Yathong state forest which is almost surrounded by Yathong nature reserve where hunters were not allowed. Yathong nature reserve is on of the places which will now be open to hunters. I went to Yathong once and saw mobs of goats in the nature reserve, but only the odd one in the state forest, as they know where they are safe. The national parks and nature reserves were the refuges for pests. Eradication will never be possible, but constant pressure will keep their numbers down so the damage they do is manageable.
 
georgeL said:
premier of nsw does a deal with the shooters and fishing party so he could sell off electricity power plants,
the shooters party gets to shoot in national parks of nsw, oh we only will be shooting feral animals ?? what if you miss the poor sole on the otherside of the bush taking photos.:mad:
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Interesting first post.
georgeL,you are aware that this will have conservation benefits.

It's the "Cafe Conservationists" doing the moaning.
Why?As they never even enter the bush.If they did they might just see this is needed & the outcomes real & required.With the added interest we might just be able to get some money to research the dispersal & habitat use by feral animals in these "reserves" & measurable management outcomes.Something National Parks did very little off.

Cheers Khakibob
 
All of this would never happen in a national park in the US, even though places like Smoky Mountain National Park in Tennessee and the Everglades in Florida could use it to curb the feral pig population. People would want to hunt the native species next and would make the case for killing wolves in Yellowstone or Grand Teton. Sorry to hijack the thread as a non-Australian, I just find it interesting to see how things are done in other countries.
 
Well, most of the native North American Animals that need conservation in these reserves are game animals. Whereas in Australia, other than the macropods, everything big is a pest.
 
People here like to say that the wolf is an introduced species since it was reintroduced 17 years ago. What is the view on dingos in those parks?
 
elefante said:
All of this would never happen in a national park in the US, even though places like Smoky Mountain National Park in Tennessee and the Everglades in Florida could use it to curb the feral pig population. People would want to hunt the native species next and would make the case for killing wolves in Yellowstone or Grand Teton. Sorry to hijack the thread as a non-Australian, I just find it interesting to see how things are done in other countries.
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Sorry to bust your bubble but hunting occurs in most National Parks in the US.
Most dont realise it because it is so well managed with seasons,tags & effort & so few incidents.

If the dingo was not a pest in the park it would not be listed.
Hunters will no doubt have to have special licences,book in & get written permission.On the permission form should be a list ot what can & can not be done & any particular issues with that block.
Hunters will then have to book out & do returns on animal taken & game sigthed.These surveys will no doubt be used to ask other info to build indicies on not just pests but increases in abundence of other or important species.
Management can not be done without monitoring,conservation hunting if done wisely can be a useful tool in the adaptive management of our reserve areas.

Cheers Khakibob
 
khakibob said:
Sorry to bust your bubble but hunting occurs in most National Parks in the US.
Most dont realise it because it is so well managed with seasons,tags & effort & so few incidents.

If the dingo was not a pest in the park it would not be listed.
Hunters will no doubt have to have special licences,book in & get written permission.On the permission form should be a list ot what can & can not be done & any particular issues with that block.
Hunters will then have to book out & do returns on animal taken & game sigthed.These surveys will no doubt be used to ask other info to build indicies on not just pests but increases in abundence of other or important species.
Management can not be done without monitoring,conservation hunting if done wisely can be a useful tool in the adaptive management of our reserve areas.

Cheers Khakibob
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With all due respect, I live in the US and you live in Australia. I think I know the laws here since I live close to two national parks.
 
elefante said:
With all due respect, I live in the US and you live in Australia. I think I know the laws here since I live close to two national parks.
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May I suggest you contact the various states Departments of Resources.

I think you'll find that the umbrella org for game management throughout the Pacific region is chaired by an Australian.
The US is a Pacific nation & our two countries in particular share much goodwill & ideas on adaptive management & conservation.After all the two considered the "modern fathers of conservation" were American (Roosevelt & Leopold).

Cheers Khakibob
 
elefante said:
People here like to say that the wolf is an introduced species since it was reintroduced 17 years ago. What is the view on dingos in those parks?
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Dingoes are only protected in certain national parks in NSW. Once they leave the park they are fair game. Baiting is used quite commonly on wild dogs in NSW and baits don't care what they kill, shooting is a much better option. Queenslanders still get a bounty for shooting dingoes which if they were incorrectly percieved as such a threat to livestock they would be classified as a critically endangered species with around only 150 wild pure alpine dingoes left.

I feel the allowing of shooting feral animals in national parks will be a boost for dingoes. even though they actively hunt cats and foxes it would help reduce competition for easier prey like possums and allow more stability in ecosystems.
 
"This is a very successful program which is being rolled out to other areas with feral animal problems. National Parks have had millions of dollars and years to control feral species, and it is a fact that they do not have the resources to do it. Would you rather our native species become extinct?"

An interesting debate. Monty do you have some actual facts and figures to support how "successful" this program has been and how this may prevent native species from becoming extinct. Were these NPWS millions of dollars devoted solely to pest eradication?

I eagerly await these "conservation benefits" khakibob speaks of and I will be keen to see actual scientific evidence that it occurs.
 
Gryphon said:
An interesting debate. Monty do you have some actual facts and figures to support how "successful" this program has been and how this may prevent native species from becoming extinct. Were these NPWS millions of dollars devoted solely to pest eradication?
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Successful in thousands of introduced animals removed which otherwise would still be there.

I don't know the figures, but national parks has a budget of many millions and one of their jobs is to control pests. There are over 5 million hectares of national parks in NSW and they will be spending several dollars per hectare. Thats the problem though, a limited budget and 5 million hectares to manage. If volunteers can do the job in part of that they will be able to do a better job over the rest.
 
Not really facts and figures :) It's odd that NPWS has a (government) budget that can not possibly do their job justice and yet the government offers non-staff volunteers to do it instead. In return, I believe, for a favour on electricity. Again, I eagerly await the hard evidence from this conservation-based, success-assured endeavour :)
 
Gryphon said:
Not really facts and figures :) It's odd that NPWS has a (government) budget that can not possibly do their job justice and yet the government offers non-staff volunteers to do it instead. In return, I believe, for a favour on electricity. Again, I eagerly await the hard evidence from this conservation-based, success-assured endeavour :)
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A large part of the problem is that the previous government greatly increased the size of National Parks but were unable to increase their budget by the same amount. I have heard that Bob Carr created a lot of national parks but was not sure how bigger area. I just googled it and found since 1995 he more than doubled our national park area, by increasing the area by 2.7 million hectares. This was never properly funded and the quality is dropping while quantity is increasing. The state government can not afford to increase the funding now and is actually looking at public service cuts.
In a few years we will now weather volunteers can help National parks control pests or not.
 
Gryphon said:
I eagerly await these "conservation benefits" khakibob speaks of and I will be keen to see actual scientific evidence that it occurs.
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G'day Gryphon.
The greatest benefit will be a new mindset from another stakeholder in the management of NP's.
Ask any manager in a NP if there is relatively more or less dogs, pigs,deer,etc than this time last year? Good luck with your answer.
Apart from this new stakeholder which opposes the indescriminate use of 1080 (this also includes the use on your precious sambar),hunters will be involved in monitoring wildlife populations & establishing indicies of abundence for the first time in many of these areas.(The info on these indicies is avaliable on State forests from the GC)
The old addage is true,"you cant manage if you don't measure".
There should be an increase in the budget for the Game Council,so hopefully more research on habitat use & dispersal can be done.This would have particular benefit on learning how the sambar use the national parks along the dividing range to expand their range to the north.

I could go on about measurable conservation benefits,but I fear it would be throwing pearls to swine.
Gryphon,answer this if you would please,as I'm confounded by your thoughts.Why would a Victorian based sambar hunter become so negative about what most of your NSW peers see as a win?
What are they missing which you appear to see?

Cheers Khakibob
 
$71 million dollars allocated to NPWS for pest control, weed control and fire protection. This is approximately $14 per hectare of terrestrial national park in NSW.
 
My 2 cents worth......If it's done right then I'm for it. i.e. as long as it's sensibly regulated by both government (with rangers playing a critical role in that) using reputable guidelines such as those used by the NSW Game Council and with professional (well-trained) shooters working within National Parks and on adjacent properties. I also agree that its important that conservation benefits (and any negative impacts/mistakes) are actually measured and then fed back to adapt management practices. Unfortunately there is always a rogue element out there that will drive around in cars casusing damage, shooting anything, breaching decent animal welfare practices and even purposely releasing ferals for hunting purposes. However, perhaps with more professional shooters out there they can even help Rangers keep an eye on both types of ferals:)
 
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