Also glad to see Oklahoma City Zoo is getting raccoon dogs.
Given their invasiveness, it seems pretty darn irresponsible to me. Hopefully they'll be non-breeding animals.
Also glad to see Oklahoma City Zoo is getting raccoon dogs.
Ummm, what? You do realize they will be in a zoo enclosure with virtually no possibility of escaping and becoming an invasive species?Given their invasiveness, it seems pretty darn irresponsible to me. Hopefully they'll be non-breeding animals.
Ummm, what? You do realize they will be in a zoo enclosure with virtually no possibility of escaping and becoming an invasive species?
I’m sure they will take plenty of precautions. Considering it’s a new exhibit, I’m sure there was plenty of planning. They made the decisions for some reason. There’s a reason there are TAGs. Zoos don’t just pick animals out of thin air to exhibit. If animals weren’t exhibited based on invasiveness, all zoos would have would be exotic megafauna and local species. US zoos probably couldn’t exhibit native European species and vise versa. Kinda defeats the purpose of exhibiting a wide variety of species for a greater education value if zoos are limited based on invasiveness.No enclosure is 100% escape-proof when human error is thrown into the mix and lots of non-native populations are descended from zoos. Raccoon dogs are proven invasives across eastern and northern Europe. They are adaptable generalists, highly mobile, and have a wide thermal tolerance range. As if the economic impact and threat to native wildlife weren't enough, they also pose a public health risk.
If the US had ratified the CBD, it would be obliged to take preemptive action against potential invasives. The EU, for instance, has the forward-thinking Commission Implementing Regulation 2016/1141 (which includes zoos). Regardless, as a conservation organisation, OKC Zoo should lead by example. Raccoon dogs are neither threatened nor, frankly, all that interesting to the bulk of visitors. However slim the likelihood, I don't think it's worth the risk.
I’m sure they will take plenty of precautions. Considering it’s a new exhibit, I’m sure there was plenty of planning. They made the decisions for some reason.
There’s a reason there are TAGs.
Zoos don’t just pick animals out of thin air to exhibit. If animals weren’t exhibited based on invasiveness, all zoos would have would be exotic megafauna and local species. US zoos probably couldn’t exhibit native European species and vise versa. Kinda defeats the purpose of exhibiting a wide variety of species for a greater education value if zoos are limited based on invasiveness.
Cool. So I guess we should be all on board for banning facilities in Florida from holding all non native crocodilians, pythons, or other tropical reptiles. While we’re at it, we should ban degus from being held in collections too because they are considered invasive in pretty much all the US and they are rodents so they are a huge escape risk. They have no conservation needs so why would a facility want them (hint: there are a few). Any aquariums by the coast can’t hold potentially invasive fish species either because the risk of a storm releasing them is too high as well.Well, that's all right then!
Barring a recent change, raccoon dogs are not recommended by the AZA small carnivore TAG.
Actually, most species pose no real risk. However, going into an adaptable, mobile, generalist omnivore listed by DAISIE as one of the 100 worst invasives is just unnecessary. No zoo has enough species to justify that on collection grounds. There is also no evidence that displaying a vast range of species is educational for visitors.
To be taken seriously as conservation organisations, zoos cannot just be stamp collections. That is particularly true if those stamps pose a legitimate threat to local ecosystems.
Cool. So I guess we should be all on board for banning facilities in Florida from holding all non native crocodilians, pythons, or other tropical reptiles. While we’re at it, we should ban degus from being held in collections too because they are considered invasive in pretty much all the US and they are rodents so they are a huge escape risk. They have no conservation needs so why would a facility want them (hint: there are a few). Any aquariums by the coast can’t hold potentially invasive fish species either because the risk of a storm releasing them is too high as well.
You need to give more credit to the animal care professionals who make the decisions and the companies who build the exhibits.
If you are so concerned about the local ecosystem around OK City, then why don’t you call them. I’m sure they’ll forgo the plan and construction that’s almost certainly nearly completed because one of the species they plan on housing (or potentially already house behind the scenes) is considered invasive and you don’t trust them to keep them secure. Maybe your example will prevent zoos from doing something so reckless in the future.
I don’t need to know the exact reasons as to why they want raccoon dogs or how they are obtaining them to trust that a large institution like Oklahoma City Zoo is getting these animals through a reputable source. I’ve never pretended to know why they are getting them or if they were a breeding pair. If it seemed like I did, it’s because I’m giving examples for why they might be getting them. I don’t feel like I need to fully explain why raccoon dogs have an educational benefit. Potentially these are rescues and they will have some sort of sign that tells people why they are not good pets and the harm they can cause the environment if they get out.Go on, what's so crucial about keeping raccoon dogs? You suggested, and swiftly dropped, a half-baked education argument; any other ideas? As suggested by my first post, I'd be quite happy if they were rescued and prevented from breeding. Context suggests that isn't the case, but we'll have to see. Your posts, however, suggest you'd support a breeding population. Why?
As for the attempts at absurd examples, I think they're quite the opposite. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Everglades, say, were not a witless menagerie of non-native nasties? New Zealand, for example, has anti-reptile legislation similar to what you're satirising. If only Florida had enacted something similar (hint: they'd save millions of $$$ for starters).
I also recognise a continuum of invasiveness which, like most of my posts, you've chosen to ignore.
Now it's my turn to be confused. Are you honestly suggesting escapes never happen at accredited facilities? Again: introduce human error and no system is fool-proof.
Is this an attempt at goading? You realise the purpose of a discussion forum, right?
I do recognize the inherent risk of escape. It happens with every animal. But I think the immediate damage an escaped tiger could do is the same if not greater than the potential damage a pair of raccoon dogs could do. So why is it that the raccoon dog exhibit is too risky but you don’t have any issues with tigers or other dangerous animals being exhibited?
As for Florida, I wanted to give an example of how we trust those institutions to hold animals that we know are invasive and there is legislation on the legality of keeping those species. Would you be against a zoo in florida building a new reptile building because of the risk? What about the other examples I gave?
I do recognize the inherent risk of escape. It happens with every animal. But I think the immediate damage an escaped tiger could do is the same if not greater than the potential damage a pair of raccoon dogs could do. So why is it that the raccoon dog exhibit is too risky but you don’t have any issues with tigers or other dangerous animals being exhibited?
As for Florida, I wanted to give an example of how we trust those institutions to hold animals that we know are invasive and there is legislation on the legality of keeping those species. Would you be against a zoo in florida building a new reptile building because of the risk? What about the other examples I gave.
And I’m not goading. I just find your reasoning ridiculous so I was being sarcastic in the hopes to bring humor to a thread that has become way too serious.
I also feel like I’m addressing all of your points so to insinuate that you’re being ignored is absurd.
Invasive” in a continental sense (outside of the very limited example of small carnivores in Australia) is a Bugbear/Boogyman argument. In my opinion only....