Smithsonian National Zoo Smithsonian National Zoo News 2023

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Nile Hippo Expert said:
The 3 pandas safely arrived in Chengdu at around 10:30 this morning D.C time.
Mei Xiang, Tian Tian and Xiao Qi Ji have safely landed in Chengdu! After a safe long flight with plenty of bamboo, the giant pandas continue their journey to their new home. Our animal care team will stay for a few days as the pandas get settled. Thank you to our partners at FedEx for transporting our Very Important Pandas in style! #PandaStory Smithsonian *** ️❤️ Watch the farewell video: https://s.si.edu/3Sv1Smp *** Photo: The Zoo team that cared for the bears on their journey to China posing next to the three specialized travel crates containing Mei Xiang, Tian Tian and Xiao Qi Ji. Photo: Keeper Mariel Lally checks on a giant panda inside a travel... - Smithsonian’s National Zoo and Conservation Biology Institute
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I don't understand why China wants two elderly giant pandas Mei Xiang and Tian Tian are already 25, and 26 years old. I think that they can not breed anymore. So what is the point of bringing them back to China? Xiao Qi Ji should return for breeding but his parents are already old, so why not let them live in the Smithsonian Zoo. Maybe there gonna be some new pandas arriving at the zoo but just let the two pandas live their rest of their lives then reno the building when they die.
 
Zoo adventures said:
I don't understand why China wants two elderly giant pandas Mei Xiang and Tian Tian are already 25, and 26 years old. I think that they can not breed anymore. So what is the point of bringing them back to China? Xiao Qi Ji should return for breeding but his parents are already old, so why not let them live in the Smithsonian Zoo. Maybe there gonna be some new pandas arriving at the zoo but just let the two pandas live their rest of their lives then reno the building when they die.
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China wants the older pandas to live out their “retirement” in their country. That’s why Bai Yun and Gao Gao (San Diego), and Ya Ya (Memphis) returned. The same will happen to Yang Yang and Lun Lun in Atlanta next year.
 
Zoo adventures said:
I don't understand why China wants two elderly giant pandas Mei Xiang and Tian Tian are already 25, and 26 years old. I think that they can not breed anymore. So what is the point of bringing them back to China? Xiao Qi Ji should return for breeding but his parents are already old, so why not let them live in the Smithsonian Zoo. Maybe there gonna be some new pandas arriving at the zoo but just let the two pandas live their rest of their lives then reno the building when they die.
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They signed an agreement with China that all of the pandas must leave no later than December 7th, and they want the older pandas to live out their lives there in their native homeland.
 
MeiLover said:
China wants the older pandas to live out their “retirement” in their country. That’s why Bai Yun and Gao Gao (San Diego), and Ya Ya (Memphis) returned. The same will happen to Yang Yang and Lun Lun in Atlanta next year.
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Thank you for the information
Nile Hippo Expert said:
They signed an agreement that all of the pandas must leave no later than December 7th, and they want the older pandas to live out their lives there.
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Ohh ok thank you
 
Zoo adventures said:
I don't understand why China wants two elderly giant pandas Mei Xiang and Tian Tian are already 25, and 26 years old. I think that they can not breed anymore. So what is the point of bringing them back to China? Xiao Qi Ji should return for breeding but his parents are already old, so why not let them live in the Smithsonian Zoo. Maybe there gonna be some new pandas arriving at the zoo but just let the two pandas live their rest of their lives then reno the building when they die.
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Because pandas are owned by China and are used as a form of soft power. Because there are ongoing issues with trade and whatnot with China, they are using pandas as one method of punishing nations that (in China's view) are punishing China.

Keep in mind I do work mostly on the domestic policy front so I'm not as well-versed on the issue and it's incredibly complex, but the gist of it - Basically China is saying, "oh well you're going to screw us over? Well give us back our pandas then."
 
I am curious where does the Zoo acquire those songbirds in the Bird Friendly Coffee Farm ? From the rescue center or other breeding institution?
 
BlobfishBoy said:
Although I’m unsure of the origins of all the birds in the Coffee Farm, this blogpost explains that the Baltimore orioles were collected from the wild a few years ago.
Egg-citing News: Bird House Welcomes Oriole Chicks
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I believe many of the songbird species were wild-collected, and National has successfully bred many of them now. They have a pretty successful breeding program for native species. I expect this is largely due to increased push for holding and breeding native songbirds as part of the NA Songbird SAFE program.
 
zoogoer92 said:
Because pandas are owned by China and are used as a form of soft power. Because there are ongoing issues with trade and whatnot with China, they are using pandas as one method of punishing nations that (in China's view) are punishing China.

Keep in mind I do work mostly on the domestic policy front so I'm not as well-versed on the issue and it's incredibly complex, but the gist of it - Basically China is saying, "oh well you're going to screw us over? Well give us back our pandas then."
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Indeed a very complex political issue. I was wondering so if US Zoo's having to pay a million per year to rent panda's. Will China reimburse the National Zoo for the one month taking back pandas a month earlier? If not why not? And maybe a stretch but why aren't there recalling: chinese alligators, lesser pandas!, Mangahan Pit Viper. Shoot what's stopping them? An hey! while were at it maybe they could call for returning: SNOW LEOPARDS! I'm just saying.
 
junglejim said:
Indeed a very complex political issue. I was wondering so if US Zoo's having to pay a million per year to rent panda's. Will China reimburse the National Zoo for the one month taking back pandas a month earlier? If not why not? And maybe a stretch but why aren't there recalling: chinese alligators, lesser pandas!, Mangahan Pit Viper. Shoot what's stopping them? An hey! while were at it maybe they could call for returning: SNOW LEOPARDS! I'm just saying.
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That's not how a lease works. I'm not sure how old you are, but if/when you ever lease an apartment for example, the terms of the agreement are set for you to pay a certain amount through the duration of the contract. Same thing there - there's no prorated amount for the loss of a few weeks.

As for the animals you have descried that are endemic to China or partially endemic - those individual animals did not originate from China (for the most part), so how would that be enforced? What sort of legal authority would a government have to claim ownership of an animal or group of animals that are endemic to their country that are already in possession of foreign zoos? There is none. So safe to say those species you've listed are not being recalled
 
junglejim said:
And maybe a stretch but why aren't there recalling: chinese alligators, lesser pandas!, Mangahan Pit Viper. Shoot what's stopping them? An hey! while were at it maybe they could call for returning: SNOW LEOPARDS! I'm just saying.
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Giant Pandas have leverage. Chinese Alligators and Mangshan Pit Vipers are unfortunately not a must see for the general public and have easy replacements in the American Alligator, and several other pit viper species. Snow Leopards and Red Pandas are popular, however can also be found in other countries like Nepal and India. There are no other animals like the Giant Panda where they are 1. Incredibly Popular, 2. Very Unique, and 3. Only found in one country on earth.
 
KiwiBirb said:
Giant Pandas have leverage. Chinese Alligators and Mangshan Pit Vipers are unfortunately not a must see for the general public and have easy replacements in the American Alligator, and several other pit viper species. Snow Leopards and Red Pandas are popular, however can also be found in other countries like Nepal and India. There are no other animals like the Giant Panda where they are 1. Incredibly Popular, 2. Very Unique, and 3. Only found in one country on earth.
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Snow Leopards live in more than 10 countries, actually.
Red Pandas come often from the Indian/Nepali (sub)species, not from the Chinese (Styan) one. I don't know the situation in America but here in Europe there aren't any Chinese Red Pandas.
 
KiwiBirb said:
Giant Pandas have leverage. Chinese Alligators and Mangshan Pit Vipers are unfortunately not a must see for the general public and have easy replacements in the American Alligator, and several other pit viper species. Snow Leopards and Red Pandas are popular, however can also be found in other countries like Nepal and India. There are no other animals like the Giant Panda where they are 1. Incredibly Popular, 2. Very Unique, and 3. Only found in one country on earth.
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Koalas seem to fit those 3 rules, too.
 
Australia and Ecuador are also known for being very strict with exports of their endemic fauna, but neither is politically motivated. Allies don’t get marine iguanas or Tasmanian devils as a bribe. (Tbh the devil program is probably the closest non-Chinese equivalent to panda diplomacy I know of but it’s not actually *that* comparable.)

China has a similar panda diplomacy program with Chinese sturgeon, but sturgeon are a bit less charismatic and it isn’t a well-known program as a result. Loaning out pit vipers or whatever would just get laughed off by heads of state, who are the real target for this - not zoo nerds.
 
Persephone said:
Australia and Ecuador are also known for being very strict with exports of their endemic fauna, but neither is politically motivated. Allies don’t get marine iguanas or Tasmanian devils as a bribe. (Tbh the devil program is probably the closest non-Chinese equivalent to panda diplomacy I know of but it’s not actually *that* comparable.)

China has a similar panda diplomacy program with Chinese sturgeon, but sturgeon are a bit less charismatic and it isn’t a well-known program as a result. Loaning out pit vipers or whatever would just get laughed off by heads of state, who are the real target for this - not zoo nerds.
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I'm sure they be rolling on the floor over concern for Chinese giant salamanders too.
 
RatioTile said:
Koalas seem to fit those 3 rules, too.
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They also share another similarity: highly specialized diets, which makes the feeding cost high
Persephone said:
China has a similar panda diplomacy program with Chinese sturgeon, but sturgeon are a bit less charismatic and it isn’t a well-known program as a result. Loaning out pit vipers or whatever would just get laughed off by heads of state, who are the real target for this - not zoo nerds.
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Another typical example would be the Golden Snub-nosed Monkey, long ago Pairi Daiza tried to rent the GSNM but was refused by China. When Shanghai Zoo tried to import Gorillas from Rotterdam Zoo, the latter asked for GSNM initially, but Chinese policy wouldn't allow that deal, later Shanghai Zoo used Francois Leaf Monkey and Takin to exchange with Gorillas. But the policy is understandable, GSNMs used to be poached for their beautiful furs, even now they still are captured for illegal trade with private zoos or pet owners. So Chinese government worries that without the strict law they may be smuggled out to other countries.
 
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Persephone said:
Australia and Ecuador are also known for being very strict with exports of their endemic fauna, but neither is politically motivated. Allies don’t get marine iguanas or Tasmanian devils as a bribe. (Tbh the devil program is probably the closest non-Chinese equivalent to panda diplomacy I know of but it’s not actually *that* comparable.)

China has a similar panda diplomacy program with Chinese sturgeon, but sturgeon are a bit less charismatic and it isn’t a well-known program as a result. Loaning out pit vipers or whatever would just get laughed off by heads of state, who are the real target for this - not zoo nerds.
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So the Giant Panda, Snub-Nosed Monkey and Chinese Sturgeon are all in similar programs? That's interesting. I had previously read about snub-nosed monkeys being a similar case but didn't know how serious it was. Never knew about the sturgeon! I wonder if there are others?

I think another important factor to stress why this situation is unique is also that the loan includes not only the pandas but also all of their potential children. I don't know if this would apply to the monkeys or sturgeon but in general, I don't think this applies in such a definitive way to any other animal. Yes, animals are sometimes returned to their native range for breeding purposes and a few programs do not involved breeding here (ie Tasmanian Devils) but it's still a pretty unique circumstance.

For comparison and contrast, Komodo Dragon were once diplomatic gifts from Indonesia as well, and only held by Cincinnati and the National Zoo -- then the latter bred them, and now they have become common enough they have started showing up at some smaller, non-major facilities, and some major facilities have gone out of them with zero fanfare. The babies weren't required to go back to Indonesia and formed the backbone of a breeding program and captive population instead.

We would be in a very different situation if Ling Ling and Hsing Hsing had reproduced, or any of the earlier attempts to hold pandas, as none of those were held to the current program rules.
 
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