Was it not the case that when Edinburgh received their Indian rhinos several years ago, both were male?, the plan was that one would be later moved on when a female became available. The question I ask is why has Edinburgh been denied an opportunity to receive the female that is going to Flamingoland and thus having a true pair?. At least if these Indian rhinos are to be housed at the old elephant house they will be well away from the fairground rides, unlike their African cousins which live very near to a roller coaster and the lions which reside in an area which includes a log flume ride. It has also been mentioned on here by a poster with a lifelong knowledge of Flamingo Land that this park gets more than its fair share of loutish, unacceptable behaviour from some of its visitors, I therefore ask if this is the correct place to house animals of such great rarity and importance, are the visitors to a theme park/zoo in the right frame of mind zoologically, I recall someone once telling me Flamingland is great, I love throwing stones at those f****** baboons!
Flamingo Land Snippets from Flamingo Land
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Was it not the case that when Edinburgh received their Indian rhinos several years ago, both were male?, the plan was that one would be later moved on when a female became available. The question I ask is why has Edinburgh been denied an opportunity to receive the female that is going to Flamingoland and thus having a true pair?. At least if these Indian rhinos are to be housed at the old elephant house they will be well away from the fairground rides, unlike their African cousins which live very near to a roller coaster and the lions which reside in an area which includes a log flume ride. It has also been mentioned on here by a poster with a lifelong knowledge of Flamingo Land that this park gets more than its fair share of loutish, unacceptable behaviour from some of its visitors, I therefore ask if this is the correct place to house animals of such great rarity and importance, are the visitors to a theme park/zoo in the right frame of mind zoologically, I recall someone once telling me Flamingland is great, I love throwing stones at those f****** baboons!
Some very valid points here. I too had been wondering why the 'male only' situation has continued at Edinburgh and would be interested to know whether anyone knows the reason for this? They must have had them for between 5-10 years now, while both the most recent new holders have been allocated pairs. Males have been moved in and out too. Could it have anything to do with the facilities available not being suitable for breeding? I'm not saying they aren't, just maybe a possibility.
To give Flamingo Land some credit, they run the whole zoo/theme park situation a lot better than Chessington does. I'd much rather visit Flamingo Land than Chessington, any day!
Pipaluk, I do disagree with your point of the zoo being supported by the rides and so on. Since the 60's the park has had rides there. It's more of a case of what appeals to the public and will make it a successful attraction. I'm sure it could thrive easily as a zoo on its own, its owners just decided to branch out into rides too. I personally don't mind the mix, as long as the collection is well looked after and investments are made in the right places.
Pipaluk, I do disagree with your point of the zoo being supported by the rides and so on. Since the 60's the park has had rides there. It's more of a case of what appeals to the public and will make it a successful attraction. I'm sure it could thrive easily as a zoo on its own, its owners just decided to branch out into rides too. I personally don't mind the mix, as long as the collection is well looked after and investments are made in the right places.
That's fair enough, i did say it was just my opinion and i'm sure plenty of others would agree with you on the merits of theme park zoos. Probably a few don't though.
I don't particularly like them and the ridiculously high prices(for most of the year) for fairly average collections are a major reason i avoid them-£150 for a day for 2 adults & 3 kids. I can get 2 adults & a child into Whipsnade & London for a year at roughly the same price!
The current enclosure is only a temporary expedient, not suitable for a (hopefully) breeding pair.
There have been plans for a new rhino house and enclosure at the top of the hill in one of the former paddocks, but this has been in the pipeline for many years, but with the collapse of the masterplan and some high profile arrivals, this has been put on the back burner.
Thanks for confirming this, i suspected this may be the case
The place that to my mind seems tailor-made for this species is Port Lympne, with the flat, low-lying and spacious paddocks at the bottom/Romney Marsh end of the park which would be perfect for them and currently only contain water buffalo- possibly they could be mixed? Can't understand why they haven't had them before.
This is a species that breeds very successfully nowadays so its not surprising perhaps that the overspill from this are percolating into the 'B & C' collections now- as they are a big undertaking too for any new holder. I wish FlamingoLand well with them.
Have to agree, Port Lympne would have been an excellent location for them, but only if that area was brought back onshow! That is one of my main concerns abought the Aspinall parks getting any species, along with the fear they'd try to release them in the wild at risk of slaughter!
Wey, why deent thu send them rhino things to Sooth lakes Wildleaf park, instead o that Flamingo Park, Sooth Lakes is a smahin place man, not leek the zoos yee lot gan on aboot on here where they have al thu animals in cages, at Sooth Lakes all the animals are free, just leek wot they are in their own habitual. Yee want tu see those tigers jumpin up the pole for the hos meat, its betta than watchin Sheara playin for the toon, me, wor lass and the bairns always hav a great time at Sooth Lakes, even betta in winter when that smashin lad in the cooboy hat lets us al in for nowt, only one complaint, thu deent sell Newcastle broon in the cafe!
I was a little surprised Malton - Flamingoland was chosen over others that have been on the list much longer. A bit sad that a good rhino accomodation is not ready for them. That I do find puzzling. Plus the fact it is the second rhino rehoming in a short while where there has been not as much careful screening of the host / receiving zoo as previously to be expected and yes ... Edinburgh Zoo .. by now .. would really deserve a breeding pair (after the very long wait).
On the cuddly one ... I suppose I can think of the one!
Second giraffe calf born? Any more information?
On the cuddly one ... I suppose I can think of the one!
Second giraffe calf born? Any more information?
I guess Flamingoland can renovate the old Elephant House and prepare a suitable-sized paddock at relatively short notice. Edinburgh's accomodation still isn't suitable for a potential breeding pair- they have only mulched yards rather than proper-sized paddocks so I guess until they can do something better, they will just hold the males.
I agree that Flamingoland is a slightly odd destination for this rare and impressive species- but there is no reason why they can't/shouldn't manage to care for them successfully and do well with them. West Midlands seem to be doing okay with their pair.
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Last week I was told the good news that so far this season the zoo has had far fewer unsavoury visitors than previously. I certainly did not see any and the park was very busy, it being half-term. I did notice that someone had sneaked a Fox Terrier into the zoo though! Regarding the proximity of animals to the rides, and this is occurs really only in the area of the Lost Kingdom, a few years ago a study was conducted and the conclusion was that the rides had no adverse effect on the animals. The zoo at Flamingo Land is very much on the up at the moment and the park funds research and in situ conservation projects. I do have some photos of signage about these to post.
I was not making a qualified judgement on Flamingoland. In terms of cooperation with EAZA and within EEP's, TAG's and conservation funding it is on the right road. Just, given the fact quite a few other zoos are on the list and have been on the list for quite a while seemed to have been passed over. It is a bit like jumping the cue. 
In its favor; I welcome that Flamingoland maintains both - and separately - 2 herds of giraffe (a breeding pure-bred Rothschild's and a hybrid single sex). If several of other institutions with the acreage - this would be most convenient in safari park style settings - would invest this way the EEP would have less of an issue with continued breeding of hybrids.
In its favor; I welcome that Flamingoland maintains both - and separately - 2 herds of giraffe (a breeding pure-bred Rothschild's and a hybrid single sex). If several of other institutions with the acreage - this would be most convenient in safari park style settings - would invest this way the EEP would have less of an issue with continued breeding of hybrids.
Just, given the fact quite a few other zoos are on the list and have been on the list for quite a while seemed to have been passed over. It is a bit like jumping the cue.
Can you name them(or some anyway)?
I was a little surprised Malton - Flamingoland was chosen over others that have been on the list much longer. A bit sad that a good rhino accomodation is not ready for them. That I do find puzzling. Plus the fact it is the second rhino rehoming in a short while where there has been not as much careful screening of the host / receiving zoo as previously to be expected and yes ... Edinburgh Zoo .. by now .. would really deserve a breeding pair (after the very long wait).
On the cuddly one ... I suppose I can think of the one!
Second giraffe calf born? Any more information?
I'm confused by this. As previously mentioned be zoo is building their Indian rhino accommodation right now, so why is it sad that it is not ready? Presumably it will be ready for when the rhinos arrive, won't it??
What do you mean by not careful screening? I was told that the EEP had confirmed the plans for this building, do you know something different?
The second giraffe calf is a female Rothschild giraffe.
Also, I'm not sure FL are getting a pair, there was a posting on the zoo guide FB page that said the Amersfoort animal was a male also.
I was not making a qualified judgement on Flamingoland. In terms of cooperation with EAZA and within EEP's, TAG's and conservation funding it is on the right road. Just, given the fact quite a few other zoos are on the list and have been on the list for quite a while seemed to have been passed over. It is a bit like jumping the cue.
In its favor; I welcome that Flamingoland maintains both - and separately - 2 herds of giraffe (a breeding pure-bred Rothschild's and a hybrid single sex). If several of other institutions with the acreage - this would be most convenient in safari park style settings - would invest this way the EEP would have less of an issue with continued breeding of hybrids.
Here's the story, as I was told it. At the last TAG meeting the EEP reported that there were animals waiting to be rehoused immediately and that the zoos on the waiting list were simply not in a position to receive any animals yet. Flamingo Land applied and said they could have their building finished soon as animals were ready to move, hence they get the rhinos. If they have queue jumped, then it's a case of right place, right time.
I was not making a qualified judgement on Flamingoland. In terms of cooperation with EAZA and within EEP's, TAG's and conservation funding it is on the right road. Just, given the fact quite a few other zoos are on the list and have been on the list for quite a while seemed to have been passed over. It is a bit like jumping the cue.
In its favor; I welcome that Flamingoland maintains both - and separately - 2 herds of giraffe (a breeding pure-bred Rothschild's and a hybrid single sex). If several of other institutions with the acreage - this would be most convenient in safari park style settings - would invest this way the EEP would have less of an issue with continued breeding of hybrids.
Also in its favour they have been helping the white rhino EEP for years by holding young males then moving them on for others to breed from. Also, they are the International Studbook keepers for white rhino. Oh, and they have common hippo, arguably more similar to Indian rhino in regards to their immediate housing needs.
Careful screening as in terms of e.g. housing requirements and husbandry standards. Indian rhinos in Europe are associated with foot problems and the housing reqs have been updated in order to confront these - indeed life-threatening - health issues.
Plus as I said there was a circulated list of zoos that has been around for a number of years with zoos accepted into the program and wishing to participate in the Indian rhino EEP. I was merely observing here that lately the EEP had become less conservative in where rhinos were sent out to on B/L. I agree though there has been an urgency to move on several rhinos in order to free up space for breeding (and it is exactly due to breeding that this has become an - albeit happy - issue for the program). I am quite happy to see the park acquire them as it has indeed been most helpful with the white rhino program by holding males only (1 of only 6 or so institutions that do so ... sadly so).
Interesting you should say Flamingoland is now the international studbook keeper for white rhino? I was under the impression this was still with Zoo Berlin (the EEP is managed by SBB in Hilvarenbeek here in the Netherlands). I would love to hear how that is so!
Best wishes,
K.B.
P.S. do you happen to know whose calf the F Rothschild's is (Lisa or Mylene ... both being from 2009)?
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Regarding careful screening, surely if the EEP have agreed to the movements of these animals then that is the screening process done. Isn't it wrong to suggest otherwise?
Not sure what zoo Berlins involvement is, but the isb for white rhino passed to FL from somewhere in the USA.
Not sure about giraffe, but it is a Rothschilds giraffe not a retic, there are not many relics in the UK.
I was meant to say Rothschild's ... (it was damn late), so excuse me a slip of the mind pen.
The ISB Volume 11 - Publisher Zoologischer Garten Berlin (2009).
(it has been the compiler of the studbook for years, somewhat a tradition)
I believe there is even a further volume 12 from Berlin Zoo out there.
Incidentally, the Amersfoort calf is definitely a FEMALE.
So, do not believe everything posted on a FB page.
The ISB Volume 11 - Publisher Zoologischer Garten Berlin (2009).
(it has been the compiler of the studbook for years, somewhat a tradition)
I believe there is even a further volume 12 from Berlin Zoo out there.
Incidentally, the Amersfoort calf is definitely a FEMALE.
So, do not believe everything posted on a FB page.
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