Snowleopard's 2010 Road Trip

Sound slike you guys had a good day

I have seen pictures of that elephant exhibit, looks very small!!!
 
Thanks again Snowleopard, and I'm following every word of each review this time. Now rest up and thrill us with the next day's exploits.
 
The sad thing about the elephant exhibit is their young male, "Scotty", died two months ago at the very young age of three. The elephant exhibit also doesn't have a scheduled renovation in the near future so it would be at the very least 5-7 years before a new habitat is even built.
 
Glacier Run – This mega-budget exhibit complex features a brand-new pinniped pool (it opened about 3 weeks ago) with these species: California sea lion/harbor seal/gray seal, along with an amphitheater for shows. There is a wildly popular and unique splash park for children, and the area is themed to be set in a northern mining community. Next year will see the arrival of Stellar’s sea eagles, sea otters and polar bears, and construction is well underway on the final phase of the project. I’m not sure what the finished area will look like, but the pinniped pool is a decent size and it comes with excellent viewing opportunities both above and below water.

I believe that next year is the polar bear exhibit. Construction dates for the eagle aviary and for the sea otter exhibit have not been finalized as far as I know.

@snowleopard, how has it been traveling with Kylie? (I read your description of the process, but are you enjoying sharing your zoo passion in her company?) Has Kylie changed your perceptions or zoo experience?
 
This morning I had the privelege of meeting the Snowleopard family when they came to visit the Fort Wayne Children's Zoo. It was good to meet all three of them and welcome them to Ft. Wayne. Hope you have safe travels on the rest of your journey!
 
I'm a fan of some of the exhibits in Louisville such as the Islands (I really enjoy the tortoise yards), and the Gorilla Forest. That said, I think that some of the hoofed stock holdings are an embarassment. Last time I was there, the zebra yard looked like a gravel driveway. I wasn't a fan of the addax enclosure, either. The big wire cat cages are a turn-off as well.

The zoo does have a lot of potential. One of the it's best attribute seems to be the large amount of unused land just waiting to be transformed into zoo. One very small and intersting thing that I always like to see there is the little wood turtle pond and graveyard. It's very random and quirky. I believe there are actual Revolutionary War veterans buried on the grounds.
 
DAY 12: Friday, July 23rd

Zoo/Aquarium Review #9: Fort Wayne Children’s Zoo

Fort Wayne Children’s Zoo’s website:

Fort Wayne Children's Zoo - Home Page

Zoo Map:

http://www.kidszoo.org/images/zoomap.jpg

Fort Wayne Children’s Zoo was smaller than I had anticipated, as if it were not for the new “African Journey” area (opened in 2009) a zoo visit could possibly have been squeezed into a 2-hour timeslot. As it is the modest size (38 acres) does not take away from what is definitely an enjoyable experience and the new African area takes at least an hour to see all by itself. Overall the zoo is hit-and-miss in terms of exhibitry, but there is a positive vibe about the establishment and an extra effort to consider the welfare of children in everything that the zoo does. If it were not called a children’s zoo perhaps no one would notice the difference of name change, but many of the sections in the central area are geared towards youngsters.

THE BEST:

African Journey – This 2009 addition is the newest, biggest and best that the zoo has to offer, as is often the case with naturalistic alterations to modern zoos. What was most enjoyable and surprising about this African zone was the selection of species, as several are rarely seen in American zoos. Honey badgers (also called ratels) are only found here and at San Diego, spotted hyenas, banded mongoose in the absence of meerkats, Verreaux’s eagle owl, sitatunga, white-bearded wildebeest and bat-eared fox are all uncommon and thus wonderful to see in shiny new exhibits. In addition there is a multi-acre savanna with these species: ostrich, zebra, white stork, marabou stork and the aforementioned gnus. A pair of lions roam a hilly yard, a pair of leopards are found in the African Village area, and other species include: reticulated giraffe (1 male and 6 females), Diana monkey, colobus monkey, DeBrazza monkey, Allen’s swamp monkey, Ruppell’s griffon vulture, great white pelican, serval, red-billed hornbill, black stork, black-masked lovebird, wattled crane (temporarily replacing the off-exhibit sitatunga) and African crowned crane.

The entire journey is a mixture of wood chip pathways, paved zones and wooden, elevated boardwalks, and the highlight is probably the huge boulders that make up the Kopje area (lion, hyena, fox, ratel, vulture, mongoose and serval) and the attractive surroundings include misters and beautiful views. The negatives are the metal cages which are large but ugly for all of the monkeys, the hornbills, owl and leopards. Also, the enclosures for the honey badgers, serval and bat-eared fox are definitely too small. This African area pales in comparison to many others, but overall I really enjoyed it and the zoo is much improved due to its addition.

Australian Adventure – One highlight of the zoo was meeting Elaine, also known as “rookeyper” here on ZooChat. She was gracious enough to spend time with us to chat about grandkids, travelling and of course zoos. We toured the Aussie section together, and it was fantastic to have a kangaroo expert describe details about several of the animals on display. Thanks for the tour!

The book “America’s Best Zoos” names Fort Wayne as the #1 zoo in the country for Australian animals and exhibits, and I’d have to agree with that assessment. An Australian Welcome Center has exhibits for a tawny frogmouth, carpet python and water dragon, as well as colourful activities for kids. A Great Barrier Reef tank contains 30 species of fish, while adjacent to it an even larger tank has some small sharks and other creatures. Moon jellyfish and sea nettles round out the collection, before the journey leads outdoors to a courtyard with some aboriginal art on the fountain (which has become a mini-splash park for children!). A nocturnal hall has a pair of echidnas in with beautiful and extremely active striped possums, as well as a large fruit bat exhibit on the opposite wall.

“Walkabout Aviary” is a huge walk-through aviary with a variety of Aussie winged beauties, including a lush kookaburra enclosure and an area for parma wallabies. Close to 20 eastern grey kangaroos are in another walk-through section, and North America’s ONLY pair of dingoes resides in a separate exhibit towards the end of the walk-through area. There is a “River Ride” where visitors can travel in dugout canoes through the kangaroo yard and around the Australian wildlife, another feature of the zoo that appeals to small children.

California Sea Lion Pool – A fairly new addition to the zoo, this large pool with underwater viewing has 4 sea lions (two youngsters and two veterans) and there are shows twice daily.

THE AVERAGE:

Central Plaza – An average yard for Bennett’s wallabies, a typical monkey island for capuchins, a small but intriguing alligator pool that comes with underwater viewing, a decent African black-footed penguin enclosure, a large and typical family farm zone, a red-tailed hawk in a metal cage, an Aldabra tortoise yard, a saki monkey/two-toed sloth cage, magpie jays in a metal box, and an awfully small North American river otter exhibit round out this old and aging area. This zone of the zoo is hit-and-miss, and there isn’t anything to really stand out other than the impressive California sea lion pool. A quartet of cages features bobcats, satyr tragopan pheasants, red-billed blue magpies and white-eared pheasants as the trail heads towards the African area.

THE WORST:

Indonesian Rain Forest – There are two nice sections here. The Sumatran tiger exhibit isn’t that large but incredibly lush, and I give it a definite thumbs-up, and the walk-through aviary in the Jungle Dome is also dense with humidity and a fair replica of a realistic jungle. However, after that this are of the zoo is massively disappointing. A middle-aged pair of Sumatran orangutans shares a dreadful enclosure that is all indoors and comes complete with a cement floor, cement walls, a few ropes and fake trees. On an elevated boardwalk there are metal cages for siamangs, prevost’s squirrels, Javan gibbons (also called silvery gibbons), a binturong, wrinkled hornbills, hunting cissa and spectacled langurs. None of the enclosures do justice to their inhabitants whatsoever. A small walkway outside of the rain forest area leads to more metal boxes for ring-tailed lemurs, Eurasian eagle owls, a turkey vulture and a red panda. Ugh.

Metal Cages - By my estimation there are 24 exhibits at the zoo that are literally metal cages, which makes it next to impossible to photograph the animals unless one has an ultra-expensive and high-powered camera lens. Also, it can be difficult to clearly see the occupants, and quite simply the black metal is not attractive in the modern zoo world. The Indonesian Rain Forest area has some terrific species, and so if the zoo would invest in glass viewing windows, lighter mesh restraints or something other than black metal then that area would be considerably improved.

OVERALL:

Fort Wayne Children’s Zoo is a small zoo that nevertheless packs a lot into its 38 acres and 3 major zones. “African Journey” is for the most part quite impressive, “Australian Adventure” is about 5 acres in size and well worth a visit, and the “Indonesian Rain Forest” and central plaza area are mainly disappointing areas with a few scattered worthy animal exhibits. I enjoyed my visit and am definitely excited that there are some animals on offer at this zoo that can rarely be found anywhere else. I would recommend a visit just to see the honey badgers, dingoes, silvery gibbons, spotted hyenas, striped possums and short-beaked echidnas!
 
Thanks for the comments folks, and keep them coming! If you have any questions about zoos that I've visited or zoos that I'm scheduled to visit then feel free to fire away on this thread. I'm typing this about 40 minutes from Milwaukee County Zoo, and so that's where the Snowleopard family will spend this Saturday. It will surely be much more enjoyable than fighting ones way through the deadly Chicago traffic and nonstop toll booths on a Friday night. We travelled far out of our way just to tick Milwaukee off of our list, so this zoo better be worth it!:)

@Zooplantman: I honestly love Kylie to pieces and she has made me realize what can be seen through the eyes of a child. My wife and I have always adored huge glass viewing windows, as it enables us to get extremely close to the animals, and so if possible we place Kylie right next to such windows when appropriate. Her little eyes glance back and forth, and when she sees a large animal (like the Amur tigers at Sedgwick County Zoo's terrific new exhibit) she lets out a series of gasps and gets very excited.

The quality of restrooms is something that I often did not consider, but now family rooms need to be spacious with fold-down changing tables. I love the idea of having wood chips or bark mulch in the massive rainforest buildings, but now with a stroller it is a struggle at times to get the family through such areas. Zoos in general take longer with a baby, and I'm looking forward to the time when Kylie can walk around with me and hold my hand as I guide her along suspension bridges and other zoo obstacles. Lastly, my wife Debbie and I check out children's areas with much keener eyes, as those zones used to be skipped by us and now we are considering what zoos our future children will get the most out of if we ever embark on such epic trips again.
 
My discoveries of some of the rare species at Ft Wayne are what has me thinking of going to Mesker Park next weekend. I sure would love to see some kudu and barashingas. I'll drive a long way to view some Asian hoffed stock.
 
Thanks for the review Snowleopard! Only one minor correction--the crowned cranes are in the former sitatunga yard, not the wattled crane (aka the Seriously Tall Bird). I thought of you often last night driving through Chicago. It's always a challenge driving through Chicago but doubly so on a Friday night! It got much hotter here late in the afternoon with a heat index of 106. I'll look forward to more reviews!
 
Fort Waynes Australia certainly sounds good, I will be curious to hear your comparisons of atmosphere and theme with the Australia area of Cleveland Metroparks Zoo, which I found impressive, although not as extensive for live animal exhibits.

Be sure to say hi to the tayra at Milwaukee, I sure enjoyed seeing one for the first time recently there, despite its blah display!
 
Yes I too will be interested to see how you compare it to Cleveland's Australian exhibit, which I loved. Looking forward to your Milwaukee review sometime soon.
 
When we (at America's Best Zoos) did our Top Ten rankings, as SnowLeopard has said, we ranked Fort Wayne's Australian Adventure the nation's #1 display of Aussie animals and exhibits. But we also ranked Cleveland's Australian exhibit area the #2 (Runner-Up). Here's some "inside information": It was very, very close between these 2 zoos for the #1 spot. So therefore we can't argue with anyone who would reverse these 2 and give the top spot to Cleveland. Both are excellent.
 
Also, at Point Defiance ALL the species are visible at ALL times, while at Louisville there is always one animal species that is off exhibit and on my visit there were two species that were not seen whatsoever (babirusa and siamang).

I'm really enjoying reading about all your exploits snowleopard, but this surprised me. I always thought that there were only four enclosures so that species could be mixed, for example the tapirs with orangs one day and gibbons with babirusa the next. Hearing that this is not the case is surprising and I think mixing would be an easy way to solve both the problem of not having all species on display at all times and having no mixed exhibits in the complex. Perhaps this was the original plan and it was just never carried out?

Finally, I have to ask whether you learnt how "hippos fertilize the forest" in one of Louisville's more unique interps.
 
@redpanda: I did see that intriguing graphic that you refer to, and it was rather amusing to one and all. In regards to your comments about the rotation exhibit complex at Louisville, I'm sure that the original plan has changed somewhat since that area of the zoo opened 15 years ago. I know that at the Point Defiance Zoo there are almost always Sumatran tigers in the largest enclosure, thus defeating the purpose of allowing equal "rotation time" to the other Asian species. With Louisville possibly not having all the species on display at one time, then that is definitely a disappointing aspect of the system.

I type this about an hour away from Binder Park Zoo in Michigan, and in the next few days I'll be visting both Cleveland and Buffalo and even Niagara Falls for the second time ever. I'm not sure what days I'll be at each zoo, as my family might need a rest day/laundry day because after today it will be 11 zoos in 14 days...plus over 6,000 km of driving! Anyway, here is my latest review, and it will surely disappoint at least a couple of folks on this forum.

DAY 13: Saturday, July 24th

Zoo/Aquarium Review # 10: Milwaukee County Zoo

Milwaukee County’s Zoo’s website:

Welcome to Milwaukee County Zoo!

Zoo Map:

http://www.milwaukeezoo.org/pdf/ZooMapSummer2010.pdf

Milwaukee County Zoo was a major disappointment, and I was shocked at how a fairly large zoo did such a poor job at exhibiting exotic animals. There are a lot of aging structures around the scenic grounds, and other than the remodeling of existing buildings the zoo has not had a major animal addition in nearly 20 years!!! In the time since the “Apes of Africa” exhibit was added (which in itself is one of the worst great ape areas I’ve seen at a major zoo in quite some time) there have been quite a few renovations and additions in the form of a terrific new “Gathering Place” entrance and animal nutrition centre. But what the zoo really needs now is a massive overhaul of many of the older animal exhibits, as there are more rocky grottoes and outdated, barren yards here than at most major American zoos. I still haven’t seen all of the 60 most acclaimed zoos in my travel guide “America’s Best Zoos”, but I’d estimate that in my opinion Milwaukee would be somewhere between #55 and #60. Fellow ZooChatter “Geomorph” recently reviewed Milwaukee County Zoo and he was not very flattering in his write-up, and I fear that my own review will go one step further and rank the zoo even lower. If someone wishes to see animals in sterile environments then they will love the extensive list of species at the zoo, but if one wants something other than a postage stamp collection then they should not bother with this Wisconsin institution.

There are many species of primates (including gorillas, orangutans and close to 20 bonobos), 4 species of bears, 5 species of pachyderm (elephant, black rhino, hippo and 2 tapirs), an aquarium and reptile house, a small mammal house, etc…so the animals are there in numbers but the zoo lacks even one solitary outstanding exhibit. There isn’t even an excellent enclosure that could be held up as one of the best of its kind, and so for an “exhibit guy” like me it is a crime to see such a wealth of incredible animals in average to subpar enclosures. What is the point in housing such a diverse display of critters if they are showcased in weak exhibits? It is like an art collector with a fantastic Picasso collection stuffed in boxes at the back of a garage.

THE BEST:

Nothing! What a pity…

THE AVERAGE:

Predator/Prey Exhibits – There are predator/prey enclosures from 4 different continents (North America, South America, Asia and Africa) but in all 4 cases the prey has the much larger, more impressive exhibit. There is a polar bear pit that is 90% cement, and the single bear that I saw was showing stereotypy in the swimming pool as two lethargic harbor seals swam around their adjacent pool. It may have looked pretty neat when it was first constructed, but now it is badly outdated and almost seems out of place in the 21st century. There were 4 grizzly bears on a cement block that I suppose was their exhibit, but one bear was badly pacing and the entire area resembled the zoo’s paved parking lot. Cement can inflict leg injuries and create stereotypy on zoo bears over a long period of time, and the prey enclosures of elk, moose (there were at least 4) and caribou were decent yards that were lush with vegetation.

The cheetah/hyena (they apparently rotate), lion, jaguar, Asiatic black bear and Amur tiger enclosures were all FAR TOO SMALL. What was probably unknown by many visitors is that there were also rings of hotwire inside those predator enclosures, making them even smaller than they initially appeared by the hidden moats. At least the prey enclosures of an African waterhole (waterbuck, eland, Damara zebra), a South American zone (Baird’s tapir, red-footed tortoise, yellow-foot tortoise, king vulture, alpaca), the Asian yard (Malayan tapir) and a couple of other paddocks were all of average quality.

I’m not sure what the answer is to the predator/prey mixtures, which are all reminiscent of outdated exhibitry. “Big Cat Country” has decent indoor areas for the cats, except for the hideous jaguar enclosure, but as I’ve already pointed out the yards are a quarter of the sizes of many of the lush, naturalistic big cat exhibits that I’ve seen at countless other zoos. The predators can barely be seen from the angle of the prey enclosures, and while it is great to see big cats up close I felt as if the zoo would be better off having a set of primate exhibits installed instead of the predator enclosures. The zoo could change the theme of the area and have ropes and bridges connecting the two areas, and so primates could leave their elevated habitats and mix with hoofstock as they do at several top European zoos. Of course the primates could retire to their own turf at any given moment, while the hoofstock would remain in their lower paddock. Any thoughts?

Macaque Island – I was really looking forward to this exhibit, as having 13 active snow monkeys could potentially make for an awesome zoo-going experience. We even backtracked and visited this ancient island (1958, but renovated in 2002) twice but on both occasions we saw exactly 2 of the primates. A decent enclosure but nothing too exciting was happening on my visit.

Mahler Family Aviary – Gentoo and rockhopper penguins live in a fairly small but decent penguin pool; the walk-through Free Flight room has birds such as spoonbills, waldrapp ibises, hooded mergansers, white-throated laughing thrushes, Madagascar teals, inca terns, white-bellied storks and sora rails; and there are plenty of attractively decorated exhibits throughout this 1960’s building. Outside there are rare whooping cranes in basic enclosures, and a Caribbean flamingo lagoon is attractively laid out near the visitor pathway.

Giraffe Experience – A so-so yard that has ugly wire surrounding it, and nearby bongo, warthog and other antelope yards are also average but unspectacular. I shudder to think about how many months the giraffes spend inside their tiny barn in the cold, snow-packed Wisconsin winters.

Family Farm – A typical zoo farm with an actual “Dairy Complex” that gives it some originality.

Aquatic & Reptile Complex – This 1960’s building has a centerpiece tank called “Lake Wisconsin” which is simply boring, with its walleyes and other native fish; the massive pacu/piranha tank is hugely impressive; the African cichlid aquarium is eye-catching; as are the exhibits for Grand cayman blue iguanas; leopard sharks and at least 10 other species; archerfish and mudskippers; king cobra tank; Mexican beaded lizards and black-tailed rattlesnakes; and many of the mixed-species terrariums for venomous snakes. The Chinese alligator tank is enormous for the single gator that I saw, and one tank had a gaboon viper and a red-spitting cobra.

North America – Decent grey wolf, prairie dog and moose enclosures are all impressive, but they are completely overshadowed by the god-awful bear parking lots and the 1950’s Dall sheep cement mountain. If major zoos like Woodland Park and Saint Louis have plans to bulldoze their bear pits in the next 3-4 years then there is no excuse why Milwaukee cannot join that club as well. Who wants to see bears on slabs of stained concrete?

Australia – There were 3 Matschie’s tree kangaroos (including a year-old joey) in two subpar enclosures with no outdoor access, and kangaroos and emus in a massive, average paddock.

THE WORST:

Pachyderms – The two black rhino yards are average at best, the hippo enclosure is weak and the African elephant yard is a disgrace. There is a deep moat surrounding the two elephants that were attempting to flap their ears to keep cool in the summer heat. There were zero shade structures and the entire shaded area of the dusty paddock would perhaps cover half of a single elephant. A simply brutal 1950’s relic that past its expiry date a couple of decades ago.

Primates of the World – Another 1950’s abomination, with mandrills, colobus monkeys, Diana monkeys, siamangs, black-handed spider monkeys and Goeld’s monkeys in crappy enclosures.

Small Mammals Building – Cool animals, but yet again junky exhibits. The species: golden-headed lion tamarins, golden lion tamarins, red ruffed lemurs, ring-tailed lemurs, dwarf mongooses, meerkats, a two-toed sloth, a tayra that paced incessantly and appears to have gone completely insane and Goeldi’s monkeys. Not all of this 1960’s relic was terrible, as there is an indoor, deep pool for a pair of North American river otters and an impressive nocturnal section. The species in this top-notch area: kinkajou, black-footed cat, Senegal bushbaby, douroucouli, sugar glider, springhaas, fennec fox and an assortment of bats. With so few nocturnal houses around these days this zone was very well done and one of the better ones of its kind.

Humboldt Penguin Pool – An outdoor exhibit that is way too small, although it does allow for close-up viewing of the birds. Compared to huge exhibits for the same species that recently opened up at Woodland Park and Sedgwick County this exhibit is very weak and actually causes crowds to accumulate as visitors make their way to the crappy great ape house.

Seal/Sea Lion Pool – I couldn’t tell you as I was not even allowed to catch a glimpse of the enclosure without forking over $2 for a ticket to the twice daily show. Milwaukee and Saint Louis are the only two zoos that I’ve ever seen where a zoo visitor was charged to watch the pinniped show, and in both cases the exhibit remained tantalizingly out of reach. I know that the original pool is ancient, but there was yet another “Milwaukee renovation job” done over 20 years ago.

Apes of Africa – This opened in 1992, and it has one of the tiniest outdoor gorilla yards that I can remember seeing. The bonobos are awesome to see, but the so-so yard was closed to the public as the apes were all indoors. However, the indoor area was far too small for almost 20 bonobos, and the same could be applied to the orangutan section of the ape house. Who wants to see orangs sitting on cement with a fancy mural painted on the wall behind them? It reminds me of the many historical zoo books that I own, as this great ape complex is already due for an overhaul. The apes should have new exhibits built for them, and the cavernous building could be altered to house smaller species.

OVERALL:

I fully realize that I’ve criticized this zoo harshly in my review, but after we drive away from every single zoo on this trip (10 zoos in the first 13 days) my wife and I always chat about our highlight of the day and what we thought about the overall zoo experience. The first thing that Debbie did was turn to me and say that there was not a single thing that stood out about the Milwaukee Zoo, and I would have to wholeheartedly agree. The plentiful bonobos were great, but the dirty viewing windows and small exhibit was terrible. Dall’s sheep were cool to see, but their fake mountain is half a century old.

Milwaukee County Zoo has many 1950’s and 1960’s buildings that have since been renovated, but I fear that the overhauls were simply stop-gap solutions that have not added to the quality of the zoo. Even all of the predator/prey enclosures are past their due date, and if I am correct in that the zoo has not opened a brand-new, non-renovated major animal exhibit in almost 20 years then that just about sums up this aging, outdated zoological establishment. The animal collection is top-notch, the visitor amenities are solid and the new entrance is imposing but worth the investment. Now the zoo needs to systematically overhaul every single building and every single outdoor exhibit over the next 50 years or else all of its major buildings will be a century old and in need of many more band-aid repairs before they implode with deterioration. The Saint Louis Zoo has even older buildings, but that truly wonderful zoo has managed to redesign each of its structures to face challenges in the modern zoo world. Milwaukee is still living in the past, and if the zoo were to represent milk it would have soured and curdled by now.
 
Oh I'm sad to hear the hippos don't have a great enclosure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Happy the Hippo from the National Zoo move here? Oh I was hoping he'd be moved to a better exhibit, poor guy!
 
Thank you Snowleopard for another great review, I'm just wondering when you are going to the Nashville Zoo. I'm sorry if I'm pestering you.
 
I'm sorry to hear the tayra at Milwuakee was going nuts, it was active but not hyper when I was there!
 
The Milwaukee Zoo is my "childhood zoo", as I grew up going to this zoo at least once a year, having grown up 50 miles away. SnowLeopard's review is about what I expected. He is correct that they have not opened a major new exhibit in 20 years, which about sums up the zoo. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, the Milwaukee Zoo probably would have made everyone's Top Ten list, but sadly they have done a bit too little to improve since then. But as SnowLeopard pointed out, the Zoo still has a most impressive collection of animals.

As for his empty list for "THE BEST", I have one suggestion. Either for cost or time reasons, SnowLeopard didn't mention riding the Zoo's wonderful miniature railroad ride. This is one zoo where riding the train is a near-required part of the tour. Had they ridden the train, I think he would have listed it (alone) on his BEST list.
 
I've never found pictures of Milwaukee Zoo very impressive, although I do like that pretador prey concept :)

Fort Wayne sounds good though, would love to see the dingoes there someday!
 
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