Snowleopard's 2012 Road Trip

[snowleopard]

@ snowleopard: Perhaps your comment about seeing signs all over the place about hiring should be addressed to the candidates in the Presidential election. My fiance compared America today to the Great Depression. President Roosevelt created jobs for people and they accepted it. However this day in age, Americans are too in debt to take jobs that don't pay well, or they are more picky. Now people are getting college degrees and if they cannot find a job they think is sufficient to their degree, they do not want to accept it. But sometimes a job is just a job until you can get your career started. What I do not understand from first hand experience and watching endless behind the scenes reality shows; how are people with such horrible work ethics keeping their jobs when there are so many out there that would work very hard in the position if given the opportunity?

This is a great post, as there must be a LOT of Americans that simply do not want to "stoop low" in order to obtain work. But as we both know having any kind of employment is certainly better than not working at all. We literally saw hundreds of "now hiring" signs but the wages for many of them were quite low. I saw advertised at Wendy's a supervisor position that ranged all the way up to $9.50 an hour (which an employee told me was great money) but in British Columbia, Canada, the absolute minimum wage is $10.25 and so to a Canadian $9.50 is peanuts.

 

[jbnbsn99]

If we could make $9.50 at Wendy's, then more of of unemployed would take it. Also, the highly educated cannot get hired on as menial workers. Companies see you have a degree or two and wonder why you would possibly want to work there. Your Canadian minimum wage is only $.20 lower than what I was making at my previous job.

 

[mweb08]

If we could make $9.50 at Wendy's, then more of of unemployed would take it. Also, the highly educated cannot get hired on as menial workers. Companies see you have a degree or two and wonder why you would possibly want to work there. Your Canadian minimum wage is only $.20 lower than what I was making at my previous job.

Yeah, a few things:

Like said above, if you have a degree or two, you're often considered over qualified for many of the available jobs and thus aren't worth hiring and training to take a job that they think you'll leave in short time.

$9.50 is not great money. It's decent money for some areas, but far from great, especially considering what goes into being a supervisor.

Lots of retail/food places like to find ways of getting rid of employees after a few raises because they start hurting the payroll. Another tactic is to lower the hours of those employees.

Part of the reason stuff costs less is because the U.S. is able to obtain favorable trade exchanges due to their power and sphere of influence. Another part is that employees don't get paid that well.

One last point, for those who lose a decent paying job, they will get paid more in unemployment than they can get working for a fast food place or retail establishment.

 

[ANyhuis]

One last point, for those who lose a decent paying job, they will get paid more in unemployment than they can get working for a fast food place or retail establishment.

Good discussion on the USA's high unemployment rate, but I think MWeb hit the nail on the head with the above comment. Too many Americans would rather stay home, with their butts in the sofa, watching TV, than to go make a small salary serving tacos at Taco Bell.

I think one reason why SnowLeopard didn't see our nation's high UE rate is because the rate is distributed disproportionately. Many of the states where the SL family drove through actually have a LOW unemployment rate: Nebraska (3.8%); South Dakota (4.3%); Iowa (5.2%); Virginia (5.7%); Utah (6.0%); and Kansas (6.1%). At the same time, the unemployment rate is sky high in many big US states, many where the SL didn't go this time: Nevada (11.6%); California (10.7%); New Jersey (9.6%); New York (8.9%); and Illinois (8.7%). All together, the big states with high unemployment (ie, California) pull the average up, giving us an overall 8.3% rate.

We've been above 8% for 43 straight months, the longest continual period since the Great Depression. We definitely need something to change!!

 

[mweb08]

Good discussion on the USA's high unemployment rate, but I think MWeb hit the nail on the head with the above comment. Too many Americans would rather stay home, with their butts in the sofa, watching TV, than to go make a small salary serving tacos at Taco Bell.

I think that's a bit unfair of a characterization.

I think many Americans would rather get paid more to stay at home, while often doing something productive like care for their children, go to school, etc while at the same time looking for a suitable job rather than work at a fast food place, which again, would prefer less qualified employees.

Anyway, another reason why fast food and retail places are often hiring is because they have such a high turnover rate, in part due to a replaceable part mentality of the corporations. It's just that people are now the replaceable parts.

 

[DavidBrown]

We've been above 8% for 43 straight months, the longest continual period since the Great Depression. We definitely need something to change!!

Do you think anything will change? Based on current polling trends (August 2012) it seems likely that Romney is going to lose and the Republicans will stay in control of the House. More years of the same miserable political gridlock seem likely.

Time to go to the zoo and get in a happy mental space that allows us to tune out the weasels in Washington...la la la la la la.....

 

[Zooplantman]

I think that's a bit unfair of a characterization.

I think many Americans would rather get paid more to stay at home, while often doing something productive like care for their children, go to school, etc while at the same time looking for a suitable job rather than work at a fast food place, which again, would prefer less qualified employees.

Anyway, another reason why fast food and retail places are often hiring is because they have such a high turnover rate, in part due to a replaceable part mentality of the corporations. It's just that people are now the replaceable parts.

I quite agree

And I agree that someone with college degrees, who had a career as a professional, who has a family and a house, 1. will not be hired by a fast-food place whether or not s/he wants the work and 2, cannot try to rebuild their life, rebuild the career, find new work if they are flipping burgers all day (or night). Finding work can be a full time job.
I suspect that some people who have posted so blithely about those ungrateful unemployed may not have had the experience themselves.
One question for America: why is compassion in such short supply?

 

[zooman]

I am curious as l know that the welfare system is significantly different to Australia.

In Australia when u r unemployed and looking for a job the Federal Govertment will provide you with approximately $245.00 per week indefinitely and health care.

In the USA on my recent trip l was told that you get payments from the Govertment however after 6 months these payments stop and you are actually taken off the list of unemployed and you do not show when the show unemployment figures. Is this true? Or how does it work?

 

[Zooplantman]

I am curious as l know that the welfare system is significantly different to Australia.

In Australia when u r unemployed and looking for a job the Federal Govertment will provide you with approximately $245.00 per week indefinitely and health care.

In the USA on my recent trip l was told that you get payments from the Govertment however after 6 months these payments stop and you are actually taken off the list of unemployed and you do not show when the show unemployment figures. Is this true? Or how does it work?

Perhaps we ought to take this digression off of Snowleopard's wonderful travel thread.
In the meantime (much as I loathe Wikipedia!): Unemployment benefits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zooman]

Perhaps we ought to take this digression off of Snowleopard's wonderful travel thread.
In the meantime (much as I loathe Wikipedia!): Unemployment benefits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank-you,

We really do live in the lucky country! Down under.

 

[ANyhuis]

I think that's a bit unfair of a characterization.

It may have sounded unfair, but it's accurate. Believe me, I've been in very close contact with some of these people -- some whom SnowLeopard actually met in my home when he visited. I tell them about available jobs, and they just say, "Oh, I could never do that!", and thus continue to live off the government. You can call it what you want, but I call it laziness.

My daughter works hard for a fast food restaurant (Fazzoli's) and my other daughter spent two years working for another (Chick Fil'A). There's nothing wrong with working for fast food -- they teach you a good work ethic.

But the particular people I'm thinking of have no interest in "lowering" themselves to work at a fast food place, as that is "below" them. They also have no interest in getting up early (7am) to go to work.

 

[Zooplantman]

They also have no interest in getting up early (7am) to go to work.

Ah the luxury of sleeping in until 7. Those were the days

 

[azcheetah2]

Just wanted to mention than azcheetah has some misinformation about Wildlife World Zoo. They never sold animals to canned hunting operations, nor did they 'lose' their AZA status. They chose to leave AZA because of philosophical differences with the way AZA is going in a lot of different areas.

That's not what I was told and I live here, but, whatever.

 

[sooty mangabey]

It may have sounded unfair, but it's accurate. Believe me, I've been in very close contact with some of these people --

I've steered out of this debate, even though it's a subject in which I am very interested. However, I can't let this one go without saying that, of course there are idle people out there who won't work hard when it is absolutely the right thing for them to do, but that does not mean that it is valid to generalise in this way. Many liberal Europeans look down their nose at America, and judge the whole country on "Rev" Fred Phelps and Rush Limbaugh, when, clearly, to do so, is absurd; likewise, a few workshy wasters hanging around the Nyhuis homestead (kick 'em out Allen!) can't, seriously, be used to write-off a whole swathe of the country... To use a much over-used quotation, the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[snowleopard]

I don't mind at all that an interesting debate has continued to light up this thread, as my road trip is essentially over other than one final review that will be the 50th of the vacation. I worked in the fast-food industry for 6 years when I was younger (McDonald's, Dairy Queen and KFC) and I think that such a job supplies youth with a tremendous amount of discipline and work ethic. Or at least it did during my era of the early to mid-1990's but I'm a little skeptial these days due to the poor service that I regularly receive at such establishments.

Of course the recession has hit many families particularly hard, and compassion is needed for many individuals. There are men and women who have been laid off from jobs that they held for decades, and all of a sudden they have mouths to feed, a mortgage to pay, and a litany of other bills. The flip-side are folks like the students that I've been teaching for the past 3 years at an alternate high school. I love my job but probably 90% of the students that pass through my classroom each year have been expelled from a regular high school and have ended up at the school that I work at.

Close to 100% of the students in Grade 10 that I teach (16-17 years old) do not work at all and they definitely think that a job in the fast-food industry is beneath them. Smoking dope and playing video games all night long is par for the course, but that is not a surprise as the students I teach are for the most part not scholars or pinnacles of the education system. Even when I spent a year at a mainstream, regular high school I found that many students hoped to get jobs at clothing stores in malls or anywhere that did not serve food or require the wearing of a dorky hat.

Changing the subject, I visited Calgary Zoo today and spent 4 hours truly enjoying my time there. I was flying solo with my two little kids so I had to go slowly and I saw perhaps 70% of the zoo. The good news is that I'll be back again tomorrow to tick off the remaining 30% and see many of the exhibits for a second time. My thoughts so far: Canadian Wilds features basic enclosures but is still a wonderful section of the zoo with close to 25 North American species in a comprehensive area; Prehistoric Park is 6.5 acres of dinosaur statues that is still good but it has run its course and the almost 30 year-old pathways are far too narrow; Penguin Plunge I'll see tomorrow as the waiting time just to get in the building was 30 minutes in the morning and a full hour by noon! Tiger cubs are cute and the tiger exhibit is essentially a large metal cage but it is over a half-acre in size; and Elephant Crossing features 4 elephants in a ridiculously small paddock and no wonder the zoo is sending them all away in a couple of years. I last visited the zoo in 2006 and so it was nice seeing the many small changes that have taken place and I'm looking forward to arriving bright and early again tomorrow and heading straight towards the brand-new, $25 million penguin complex.

 

[Zooplantman]

Close to 100% of the students in Grade 10 that I teach (16-17 years old) do not work at all and they definitely think that a job in the fast-food industry is beneath them. Smoking dope and playing video games all night long is par for the course, but that is not a surprise as the students I teach are for the most part not scholars or pinnacles of the education system.

I suppose we ought to be glad that these kids' families are doing so well that the kids don't need to work and have "disposable" income

 

[mweb08]

It may have sounded unfair, but it's accurate. Believe me, I've been in very close contact with some of these people -- some whom SnowLeopard actually met in my home when he visited. I tell them about available jobs, and they just say, "Oh, I could never do that!", and thus continue to live off the government. You can call it what you want, but I call it laziness.

My daughter works hard for a fast food restaurant (Fazzoli's) and my other daughter spent two years working for another (Chick Fil'A). There's nothing wrong with working for fast food -- they teach you a good work ethic.

But the particular people I'm thinking of have no interest in "lowering" themselves to work at a fast food place, as that is "below" them. They also have no interest in getting up early (7am) to go to work.

Like sooty mangabey said, it's accurate for some, but far from all.

There's nothing wrong with working fast food if that's where you are in life. There is something wrong with working fast food if you have one or more degrees, have built up a solid career, have a family to support, and get paid more in unemployment than they would at said job.

I have no issue with a person in that condition holding out for and diligently searching for a somewhat decent job while using some of that extra spare time to spend time with their family and/or further their education and/or volunteer somewhere.

As for the living off the government line, well this hypothetical person would have contributed plenty of money to government and specifically to unemployment through past earnings and therefore deserves imo a return on that investment when he/she is laid off at no fault of their own. After all, the government is partially responsible for the downturn in the economy as well as the type of economic system in place including the intricacies of it.

Besides, fast food places don't generally want to hire this type of person because they feel the person will move on as soon as they can and they are right to think that.

Regardless of if this person gets a fast food job or the like, there is high unemployment because of a lack of jobs, not because of a sudden lack of desire to have jobs. So this person gets the job and that takes away a potential job for someone else who is more suited for the job or it takes away a spot or at least hours from someone who is paid $.75 more per hour than what is ideal for the payroll.

The last part, once again, is a big reason why these minimum wage type of jobs are often available, because companies are often unwilling to keep workers in these positions for long because they start earning more than minimum wage and they can just go get someone new for that spot and pay them the starting pay rate. I was a manager at a retail store that practiced that and we would get tons of applications for very few openings of minimum wage positions.

To conclude this rambling post, the situation is vastly more complicated then the generalization that people don't want to work, which again, doesn't apply to most of that unemployment figure.

 

[blospz]

Is the aquarium planning to phase it out or is Seal Shores simply an afterthought?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were phased out. I was reading about American Trails on Smithsonian National Zoo's website and they said they plan to get two male harbor seals from Adventure Aquarium in the fall.

 

[ANyhuis]

a few workshy wasters hanging around the Nyhuis homestead (kick 'em out Allen!) can't, seriously, be used to write-off a whole swathe of the country...

Please don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to generalize my feelings about some of the lazy leeches I've been around to all of the unemployed.

And as for kicking them out, I was mostly referring to the extended family members of the people living in my home. SnowLeopard (who met them) could tell you that my wife and I are (and have been) trying to help provide a home for a few poor people, who would out on the street otherwise. In doing so, however, we've become acquainted with family members who are just plain lazy. (Oops, I started typing out specific examples -- and then realized that my name is here, these people could link this back to me!)

Finally, I'm also not suggesting that a newly unemployed person should immediately go work for a fast food joint. I was more thinking of those who haven't completed high school and are not working.

 

[snowleopard]

Allen most definitely has more patience than I do in dealing with folks who are causing many "adventures", in the Nyhuis house. I met an interesting cast of characters during my two-night stay in his home, and both Allen and his wife have strong hearts to put up with the shenanigans that have occasionally gone on there.

I flew solo with my two kids at the Calgary Zoo again today as my wife was off shopping with relatives for the second consecutive day. Boy, it is tough not having her around! It seems like my kids are great most of the time but they are also a tremendous amount of work and there is a constant stream of "Daddy, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I need to pee in the potty, let's go because you are going too slowly, let's go slow because you are too fast, I'm hungry again." Whew!

I saw the Destination Africa complex and had impressive views of the two Nile hippos underwater, and the huge Savannah and Rainforest buildings have some great sections to them. It was also wonderful touring those facilities early and seeing the 8 gorillas being let out into their indoor exhibit for the day, and I also recapped several sections of the zoo for the second time. Unfortunately I did NOT see the supposedly world-class, $25 million Penguin Plunge as the lineups are insane! I was at the zoo just after it opened at 9:00 and by 9:30 the lines were showing 35 minutes of waiting time. Soon after that the lineups hit about an hour of waiting just to get inside the huge building and that is FAR too long to stand with really small children. I have seen the entire zoo and every nook and cranny except for Penguin Plunge and so that means a 3rd visit either tomorrow or Sunday. Calgary Zoo is quite large and I forgot how good it really is, which is similar to my Denver Zoo review as in both cases it had been 6 years since the last visit. I'll post a full Calgary Zoo review when I'm done a 3rd trip, as the review is already almost complete but I'll add in the penguins and tweak a few things here and there in the editing process. If I go tomorrow it will definitely be the first time ever that I've gone to the same zoo on 3 consecutive days. I think that if an individual went alone and at a decent pace then it would still take a good 4 hours (minimum!) to see everything.