Snowleopard's 2019 Road Trip: Netherlands, Belgium, France & Germany
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You are right about Bonobos, by far the most active and 'fluid' in their group activity of all the Apes in a zoo setting. Even with wonderful climbing equipment, Orangs (interesting difference; particularly Bornean, Sumatrans are a lot more active...) are reluctant to get off the ground in zoo enclosures because they don't need to I think. Why climb when there's nothing to benefit from it (like food). Gorillas everywhere seem to like cover over them most of the time, and chimps seem rather similar. It must be very interesting to visit so many zoos and get a general picture of how species behave similarily everywhere, in so very many different zoo environments and designs.
You are correct. They are Northern Yellow-throated Martens. I almost never see martens in North American zoos and so I just know them as 'Pine Marten' on enclosure signs.
You are sort of contradicting yourself here...as you've actualy parked on zoo's parking lot then. It's true though that you have to walk around whole zoo to get to the entrance
Good point, I'm not sure if where I parked is actually Zie-Zoo's parking lot, but the presence of Wolverines nearby would suggest so. It's been quite the adjustment for me in terms of parking, as usually in North America I just pull into any old zoo's parking lot and jump out. Here I often have to circle the block, find some other location, and wherever I end up I almost certainly have to pay for the spot.
Either you have ridiculously large feet, or you are somewhat exaggerating how small the exhibits in question are
as I'm pretty damn sure that a Yellow-throated Marten wouldn't fit into a shoebox even *if* it was a contortionist!Off the top of my head I cannot recall how big those enclosures were, myself.
Here I disagree with you. I've visited the place already several times and I must say that I liked it. If you realy take your time you could discover a lot of nice ( and rarely seen ) bird-species in the second hall ( the bigger one ) and also free-ranging Green iguanas.
Klein Costa Rica is at the moment also the only place in the Netherlands were you can see Hummingbirds on display.
BTW the turacos you saw in the first ( smaller Butterfly thingy ) hall are prop. Violet turacos ( at least it was this species during my last visit last year.
(Extra note : I guess you will find some places in the ( VERY ) near future where you even spend less time as in Klein Costa Rica
! )
Clearly the best zoo you have visited so far on this trip. Why visit any other zoos when you could just go to the Best Zoo?
The indoor gorilla group are old - believe the plan is to give the chimpanzees an outdoor facility where the kangaroos currently are in that whole general area. The orangutans will eventually get outdoors too once the remaining two gorillas die.
Ah yes - Jake will probably be disappointed in me for forgetting about Fatou at Zoo Berlin
I am, quite frankly, disappointed
It's nice to read your reviews, and although I am only slightly above 50 zoos visited, most are from the region you are travelling now. So it's great to read your view on those zoos. Nuenen was also a bit of a suprise for me, didn't expect too much from it... This zoo is in the same ownership (Libema) as is Beekse Bergen, ZooParc Overloon and AquaZoo.
ZieZoo Volkel was also a suprise for me. A great collection of species, but like you say a weird mish-mash between crappy to Nice enclosures. Did you found the top floor of the entrance building? It has some reptiles, amphibians and rodents. Not much groundbreaking stuff (I liked the Short-eared elephant-shrews most of that area) but I almost missed that floor
BestZoo is a bit the same as ZieZoo, a mish-mash of crappy to decent enclosures and several rare species. Fortunately there should be an imcrease in size of the grounds in the near future.
Veldhoven Zoo used to be a bird shelter and was called NOP Veldhoven. This zoo started with mainly parrot and parakeet species and many of them were adopted from people who didn't want to or couldn't take care of the birds anymore. The Dutch gouvernement also put most of the birds they confiscated at NOP Veldhoven. But after integrety issues the zoo got in a difficult situation and shortly after the the place went backrupt and the owner died. The current owner bought it afterwards. He is one of the biggest breeders of birds of prey in Western Europe, hence the vast numbers of Stellers and Verreaux eagles. If only BestZoo had the space that Veldhoven Zoo has, or if those merged, that could have great potential in my opinion.
Frankfurt zoo I like a lot in general, unfortunately the new pinguin enclosure wasn't ready yet when I last visited. Like you I liked the top floor of the Exotarium also. The night section with the famous name had some great species and I was lucky that the Aye-ayes were being fed when I was in front of the enclosure.
Great to hear you also liked GaiaZoo, it has won several times the "best Dutch zoo award" from the public.
Cologne has a great reptile section someand good enclosures. The elephants have great space, but still Cabárceno would top that in sheer size. I must say that I had the feeling when being in the Madagascar house that it was very empty, clinical and artificial. But I stood there thinking that I wasn't sure if the animals mind it a great deal.I don't talk about size/space, but only regarding the type of 'decoration'. For sure I would like to see some more natural decoration, but still my little knowlegde can't tell me if a lemur would like mock-rock exhibit more than a tiled one?!
Olmen/Pakawi gave me a weird feeling. The chimp enclosure is horendus and a terrible way to start your visit. A lot of enclosures are really of a poor/dilapidated quality, but on the other hand some of those poor looking enclosures gave the inhabitants good space and seem to work. But overall a lot of updating and improving is needed to change the overal feeling in the zoo. There are some good parts, but also some that shouldn't even be there.
In general regarding the parking: indeed the main problem is that space is rare in this area. Even agricultural land costs between € 5-12 (Canadian $ 7,50-18) per square meter to buy. I know places (like Wildlands) where the parking lot is sold to investors, to get a big amount of cash at once to invest into the zoo.
Essentially no is correct, as there are almost none. But did you see the only fish species (apart from some carp that inhabit some ponds) and where touching them is promoted? The Doctor Fish/Spa fish/Garra rufa? Nothing spectaculair, but that place is a bit hidden near the huge walk thru aviary.
ZieZoo Volkel was also a suprise for me. A great collection of species, but like you say a weird mish-mash between crappy to Nice enclosures. Did you found the top floor of the entrance building? It has some reptiles, amphibians and rodents. Not much groundbreaking stuff (I liked the Short-eared elephant-shrews most of that area) but I almost missed that floor
BestZoo is a bit the same as ZieZoo, a mish-mash of crappy to decent enclosures and several rare species. Fortunately there should be an imcrease in size of the grounds in the near future.
Veldhoven Zoo used to be a bird shelter and was called NOP Veldhoven. This zoo started with mainly parrot and parakeet species and many of them were adopted from people who didn't want to or couldn't take care of the birds anymore. The Dutch gouvernement also put most of the birds they confiscated at NOP Veldhoven. But after integrety issues the zoo got in a difficult situation and shortly after the the place went backrupt and the owner died. The current owner bought it afterwards. He is one of the biggest breeders of birds of prey in Western Europe, hence the vast numbers of Stellers and Verreaux eagles. If only BestZoo had the space that Veldhoven Zoo has, or if those merged, that could have great potential in my opinion.
Frankfurt zoo I like a lot in general, unfortunately the new pinguin enclosure wasn't ready yet when I last visited. Like you I liked the top floor of the Exotarium also. The night section with the famous name had some great species and I was lucky that the Aye-ayes were being fed when I was in front of the enclosure.
Great to hear you also liked GaiaZoo, it has won several times the "best Dutch zoo award" from the public.
Cologne has a great reptile section someand good enclosures. The elephants have great space, but still Cabárceno would top that in sheer size. I must say that I had the feeling when being in the Madagascar house that it was very empty, clinical and artificial. But I stood there thinking that I wasn't sure if the animals mind it a great deal.I don't talk about size/space, but only regarding the type of 'decoration'. For sure I would like to see some more natural decoration, but still my little knowlegde can't tell me if a lemur would like mock-rock exhibit more than a tiled one?!
Olmen/Pakawi gave me a weird feeling. The chimp enclosure is horendus and a terrible way to start your visit. A lot of enclosures are really of a poor/dilapidated quality, but on the other hand some of those poor looking enclosures gave the inhabitants good space and seem to work. But overall a lot of updating and improving is needed to change the overal feeling in the zoo. There are some good parts, but also some that shouldn't even be there.
In general regarding the parking: indeed the main problem is that space is rare in this area. Even agricultural land costs between € 5-12 (Canadian $ 7,50-18) per square meter to buy. I know places (like Wildlands) where the parking lot is sold to investors, to get a big amount of cash at once to invest into the zoo.
If we were to follow zootierliste, 25.
I've myself only seen them once, a month ago, at el Cañada Real Open Centre in Spain.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
Of course, if one goes to Howletts one is basically guaranteed to see active outdoor gorillas
, with very deep straw litter too!
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
Very good statement that I can agree on many points. In the "Zoom" I was once-at the same time also the last time and Hannover-well, this is very special,too. Well, the city has, as well as Emmen since a few years, no longer a zoo, but only a theme park with animal husbandry. And altough a large"collection"with many "rarities" is not important to me, Hannover"Zoo"does not have to offer a good"collection"-so zoom. The animal welfare and presentation at both places leaves much to be desired, so I have no reasons to visit this doubtful parks.
But I do not think that I was unfair to @snowleopard. At least it was not in my intention, because I wrote in my contributions, what is in his perception or opinion, such as what the opening time of the Grizmekhauses is not correct and also written why. Just because a very zoo-interested, enthuasistic Zoo visitor should should it know better than a "normal" Zoovistor, and he should not be too hasty with a judgement of an exhibit or zoo, and shouldn't judge an enclosure by only the optics-the animals do not care about the optics. One should not be forget, that many, modern zoo enclosures often only meet the optical demands of the audience, but not the needs of the animals (example Jungle World and Tropic World - these houses I get the crisis-Tropic World is called Tragedy World for good reasons)
@snowleopard criticized, for example, the Otter enclosure in the Grizmekhaus, but without writing why. The enclosure is absolutely adequate for a small group of dwarf otters, well-structured, one-of-a-kind-sized pool, and they have a small, but good outdoor enclosure. And the animals are very busy - medical training, public feeding etc. The Frankfurt zoo's welfare of dwarf otters is good-so not the cologne zoo's way to keep and present them. But he has not criticized that the slender lories in the Grzimekhaus are kept in tiny Barbie dollhouses -like much more other species in the house- no comparison to how slender lories are kept in Antwerp or Rotterdam. In general, the animal husbandry in Grzimekhaus is questionable in many cases. After all, the golden yellow lion tamarins got an outdoor enclosure last year.I would be happy if he just judged things a bit more differentiated. If it were only about the look, everything would be alright in the modern zoos, right?
Of course, if one goes to Howletts one is basically guaranteed to see active outdoor gorillas
Outdoors, but with complete cage cover overhead..
. go across to Port Lympne where they have big outside paddocks as well, and you'll find them happily using the indoor areas almost exclusively apart from the scatter-feed times.I mean covered, not indoor...Outdoors, but with complete cage cover overhead..
Are we really doing this? Comparing Cologne and Cabarceno?
Yes and no. There is no comparing these two places. But I discussed the place with Snowleopard and it was more to give him an idea of the size of that huge place. Nevertheless Cologne has an fantastic elephant exhibit, and from the 56 zoos I have visited I think only Cabárceno and Wildlands zoo Emmen are in the same ballpart as Colognes elephant exhibit.