Snowleopard's Epic Road Trip

That was a great review Snowleopard! I love my local zoo, but yes, you touched a lot of good points. The snow leopard habitat needs to die soon. Really soon. But I do like the gorilla habitat quite a bit, especially the big indoor area. Well, not that weird outdated white space with the platforms. The other part. But it's good the thing a lot of the zoo will be overhauled in favor of more innovative. Maybe you could come back in ten years and review it again after everything's done? ;)
 
I might have been a little harsh before and I apologize, but most exhibits at the zoo were built when it opened and all have plains to be changed. I have seen much better planted gorilla exhibits but the toronto zoo's exhibit is the largest. The term "zoo" is not only displaying the animals it also is about conservation and education. I could say the Toronto Zoo has over 700 programs it offers to the public and conservation programs. The zoo has been extreamly sucessful with breeding animals, and at that is a reason I think the toronto zoo sores over many other zoos. So, I hope I put out a good point, but the toronto zoo does have many bad exhibits, even horrible ones like the snow leopards, but has outstanding ones as well, which include tropical pavillons, not to mention that they have a plant collection valued at $5 million. As I said the term "zoo" dosn't mean exhibiting animals it mean that and education, conservation and FUN!
 
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A very interesting review of the Toronto Zoo, snowleopard.
I will try to respond to some of the points tomorrow or Friday (probably in the Toronto thread). It is always interesting to see what exhibits people like or dislike ... I found it a bit amusing to read ZooGoer defending the mesh on the outdoor gorilla exhibit while condemning it elsewhere, and am shocked to read Quartz say the red panda exhibit is horrible! (In my opinion, this is one of the best red panda exhibits I've seen; the pandas have room, are able to climb actual living trees, rather than timber climbing structures, viewing is unobstructed, etc.). More to follow ...
 
Ok,first,i did not say i love the mesh,i said it WORKS for the gorillas since its easy for them to climb but i do think they could have done something else (glass paneling,i know,im a hippy about it).Also,did you read my review in the toronto forum and the old one?
 
I only dislike the red panda exhibit because they have a second yard and its not used, I know it is roomy and I know it is not a horrible exhibit as I said so I appologize. I think we are acting a bit to young for a forum, that was snow leopards opinion, and I go very highly about opinions and everyone is intitled to there own. Snowleopard is doing the reviews for us so we should respect that. Sure we have some dislikes about them but yet again, everyone has their own opinion, but I think some people go out of their way. So, as of this note i thank you snow leopard for all of your reviews, for taking the time out of your trip to do this and I am very sorry if I offended you or anyone at that matter. I'll I am trying to past is everyone has an opinion, there are dislikes to it but who cares, get over it, we can't change it. Once again I am truly sorry and hope people will continue on writing reviews! :)
 
Thanks again for taking time to do these reviews and lets just forget about this whole tornto zoo arguement or whatever you want to call it.
 
A very interesting review of the Toronto Zoo, snowleopard.
I will try to respond to some of the points tomorrow or Friday (probably in the Toronto thread). It is always interesting to see what exhibits people like or dislike ... I found it a bit amusing to read ZooGoer defending the mesh on the outdoor gorilla exhibit while condemning it elsewhere, and am shocked to read Quartz say the red panda exhibit is horrible! (In my opinion, this is one of the best red panda exhibits I've seen; the pandas have room, are able to climb actual living trees, rather than timber climbing structures, viewing is unobstructed, etc.). More to follow ...


i actually agree here.All it needs is new signage,this one is looking a bit outdated.the only exhibit that comes to mind that may give it a run for its money is the red panda habitat at National Zoo and yes i mean the Asia Trail one,not that horrid excuse near the Police Station!Its very very natural looking and is very rocky and nice but not much else beats the tornto one.I've been meaning to ask you wha the one in Indo-Malaya looked like and what the dhole habitat looked like before the dholes arrived?
 
I see that I have kickstarted a firestorm of controversy over my long and fairly comprehensive review of the Toronto Zoo. I even began the review with an apology, as I knew that some of the Torontonians would be offended by me calling the zoo average. I just felt, and still feel the same way, that I could name at least a handful of better exhibits elsewhere for each enclosure at the zoo. The red panda yard has been mentioned a few times, and in actuality it wasn't that bad at all. Lots of foliage, real trees, hiding places, etc, and yet the Detroit Zoo has a similar enclosure that is perhaps triple in size.

With the Toronto Zoo I was more concerned with the truly poor exhibits: orangutans, snow leopards, lynx, pygmy hippos, clouded leopard, malayan tapir, etc. There are many, many enclosures at that zoo that are satisfactory and I don't really have any issues with any of the large paddocks for hoofstock. The dhole enclosure was also mentioned, and I saw 3 dhole in a rather spacious, naturalistic exhibit.

All of my reviews are simply personal opinions, just as if I were reviewing movies or music albums. For every zoo that I love there is someone out there that will not rate it that highly at all. For every zoo that I call ordinary there will be another individual who raves about it...it's all subjective and each of us are different. I get the impression from constantly being on ZooBeat every day for the past 7 months that many people here have been to loads of zoos, and so each individual on this site deserves to have their opinion respected. I am not at all offended at the reaction to my Toronto Zoo review, and in fact encourage the comments.

My wife and I have spent a couple more days in Toronto, then we head to Ottawa for a night. After that it's off to Montreal and Quebec City for a few days each, followed by the Maritime Provinces. In the next week or so we will only hit one "zoo", the Montreal Biodome + Insectarium.
 
Just a clarifying note, the red pandas were supposed to go in with there, it was supposed to be the maylan tapir. I know there not closely, even the same but I was thinking about the red pandas when i was righting the review. (I was trying to find out when and who told me they were planning on breeding)
 
Toronto Zoo

One thing that has to be said for the Zoo in Toronto: Their use of their gigantic (and mostly very attractive) indoor pavilions is an ingenious way of having a year-round zoo available to its citizens in such a cold-weather place. Many other cold-weather climate zoos are pretty empty in the winter. Another thing that has to be said for Toronto: they have a lot of unusual Euopean animals that can only be seen there (in North America). The wisents (European bison) and Barbary apes come to mind.
 
Snowleopard's Itinerary

Snowleopard:
I too am enjoying following you on this trip. Welcome to the world of "reviewing" -- an activity that is always guaranteed to offend some, and cause others to think you're totally nuts. Certainly, in the 14 years I've been writing about zoos, I've received my share of criticism. Also, I agree with what one post said about your wife -- she has to be an amazing woman to go along with this trip! My wife certainly wouldn't.

A few comments about your itinerary:
(1) You list a full day for the Central Park Zoo. I assume you plan on doing other NYC sights (Statue of Liberty, Ground Zero, Broadway?) on that day, right? While it's very nice and historic, the Central Park Zoo is very, very small, and shouldn't take you more than an hour or two to see. If you're truly planning for a full-day to see that zoo, you might want to reconsider and head south a day earlier.
(2) One thing you might be able to squeeze in, if you skip Central Park, would be the North Carolina Zoo. It is truly one of my favorites, and you wouldn't be disappointed if you find a way to get there.
(3) On Fridays and Saturdays, the Georgia Aquarium is open late. So at the risk of wearing out your wife, if you're there on one of these weekend days, you might be able to squeeze in Zoo Atlanta on the same day.
(4) When you're in the Cincinnati/Louisville area, consider coming to the Indianapolis Zoo. You'd like their Dolphin Dome, walruses, and new Oceans complex, plus one of the better elephant exhibits. If I'm in town then, maybe I could meet you -- I live here in Indy.
(5) IF you do end up making any major changes in your routing, there are a bunch of great zoos in the midsection of the USA: St. Louis, Kansas City, Sedgwick Park (Wichita), Colorado Springs, Denver, and of course, Omaha.
 
Keep up the comprehensive zoo reviews !

I have enjoyed reading this thread , and as I am not familiar with any of the zoos so far , I appreciate everyones views on these zoos . And they will be more realistic than going to the zoos webpage ( where the zoo tries to promote the zoo in the best possible light )
So keep up the reviews -- whether the zoos be great , good , average or disappointing ..... its a pleasure to read your thoughts on the zoos
 
Is there any chance you can go past Duke University in NC, because they have the best lemur collection in the world? You have to arrange a visit in advance though. It's one place I would really love to see.


DLC: Tours and Gifts
 
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Is there any chance you can go past Duke University in NC, because they have the best lemur collection in the world? You have to arrange a visit in advance though. It's one place I would really love to see.

That would be great if its possible :D
 
This thread has been extremely popular, and I'd like to thank everyone who has written a response. There have been many people reading my updates, and I've also loved receiving the private messages as well. It's nice to have some down-time on ZooBeat at the end of the day, especially after wandering around for hours in a particular city. I will continue to post comprehensive reviews as I venture across North America with my amazing wife, and so keep the comments rolling in!!! At the moment there will be a lull in the zoos, except for tomorrow when I visit the Montreal Biodome + Insectarium. Apparently around one million people per year visit the Biodome and its 4 ecosystems that are inside the same building...and the Insectarium is supposed to be the largest of its kind on the continent. Later on this trip there will be a new zoo practically every day, and so I'll keep on postin'.

One thing that I gather from many of the responses is that people are enjoying my reviews because I tell it as it is. I have given the best, worst and an overall portrait of each zoo that I've visited, without glossing over the bad parts. I praised Shedd Aquarium as the best aquarium anywhere, and also ripped into the barbaric Lincoln Park Zoo feline house. The only reason that the Toronto Zoo received so many responses is that there are actually ZooBeat members living there. I also reviewed Minnesota, Lincoln Park, Brookfield, Shedd Aquarium, Toledo and Detroit...but I don't think that anyone lives in those locations here at ZooBeat and so there was no one to worry about. Haha. My last comment for now in regards to the Toronto Zoo is that I actually love the way that the zoo is organized. The geographic zones (Africa, Eurasia, Canadian Domain, Indo-Malaya, etc) is similar to Seattle, and I adore zoos that are well laid out in sensible fashions. One of my pet peeves is walking through the "Cat House", "Bear Grottoes", "Pachyderm Building" or similar area of a zoo that devotes itself to antiquated settings. I always think that lumping all the cats together, or bears in pits, etc, is the old-fashioned way to illustrate the beauty of animals.

I have a few questions to answer from posts by Allen Nyhuis and others, and so here goes:

1- My wife Debbie is a wonderful person, and she takes 99% of all the photos on our trips. For our honeymoon last year we went to Australia for 6 weeks and actually managed to hit 14 zoos/aquariums/wildlife parks. So on average every 3 days we were looking at captive animals!! She really enjoys zoos but not even close to the crazy level that I've had all of my life. The zoos have already blended together for her on this road trip, and it's nice that there is now a bit of a break so that she doesn't get totally bored of them. If I were to ask her where the Regenstein Center for African Apes is located she'd have absolutely no idea, but she's extremely agreeable and the envy of many here on this site. I think that having someone to go along with on "zoo-vacations" is the icing on the cake for any holiday.

2- That itinerary that I posted is very flexible, as exemplified by us already adding on the Toledo Zoo and planning on skipping the National Aquarium in Baltimore. As I wrote before, we will definitely see the Montreal Biodome next, followed by the Bronx Zoo, Central Park Zoo (probably), National Zoo in Washington D.C., Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cincinnati and almost certainly Louisville. After that it depends on whether we head south and then west across the southern States, or go across the mid-section of the nation. Either way we'll be hitting plenty of zoos and a few aquariums, and will end up between 20-25 for the entire trip.

3- The list of 25 attractions that I posted earlier on this thread doesn't mean that the entire trip is 25 days long. The number of zoos and aquariums does not represent the length of the road trip. In actuality the trip will be between 7-8 weeks, and so between 49-56 days. We will be seeing other attractions besides just captive wildlife, or Debbie would well and truly not be able to stand looking at thousands of animals. We have already spent a few hours at Niagara Falls, and then the CN Tower and Casa Loma in Toronto, and walked all over downtown Montreal today and visited Notre Dame Cathedral. Neither of us are religious but the Cathedral is stunningly beautiful. If our motel isn't too expensive we'd like to stay for at least 5 nights in New York City and see many highlights besides the two zoos. There are other attractions along the way, such as the World of Coca-Cola in Georgia and the Citadelle and old-town of Quebec City.

4- If we do hit Georgia then I'd love to see Zoo Atlanta, the World of Coca-Cola Museum and the Georgia Aquarium. We plan to spend only the 2 nights there, and if we have time we might drive out of our way to see the North Carolina Zoo as well. But there is only so much time to get all the way back to southwestern Canada, and so sadly we cannot see every great zoo on the continent. Judging from my list we will still see a large number of famous zoos, and leaving a few high-quality ones off the list will be inevitable. The Duke University Lemur Centre we will almost certainly not visit, as 25 zoos and aquariums is already a long list of attractions. Just driving from Ottawa to Montreal we passed signs for 3-4 small zoos...but I know that I'd be disappointed to pay admission for such tiny, financially-strapped establishments. A massive zoo with hundreds of species or a small institution with only lemurs and a handful of other animals is an easy decision to make, and the larger zoo will win out every time on this trip. I might not be able to ever do this kind of vacation again, and so the big guns in the zoological world are the ones that I intend on visiting.

5- Seeing two animal attractions in one day can be done but it's awfully hard on the feet. Just strolling around the Toronto Zoo is over 10 km, and when we are seeing zoo after zoo the kilometers add up and I feel as if I'm training for the Olympics!! When we spent about 4.5 hours at Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo we then foolishly decided to walk to the Shedd Aquarium, which took almost 2 hours. Then we spent about 3.5 hours there and walked halfway back to our hotel for an hour before catching a cab. In total that is 11 hours of movement...crazy day.

6- Driving out of our way and adding the Indianapolis Zoo to our itinerary is appealing, and we'll have to wait and see what transpires over the next few weeks. The book "America's Best Zoos" is an absolutely astonishing piece of work, and to possibly meet the co-author would be a real treat. My wife just shakes her head at me, but I have read and re-read that book on numerous occasions. I bought the book and read the entire thing from cover to cover months ago, and then before each zoo I re-read the entire review for that zoo word-for-word. Then we walk around the zoo for hours, and I immediately get back to whatever motel we're staying at and then re-read the review yet again to see if I missed anything. Each and every top 25 exhibit at the back of the book gets circled in pen, all the top 10 zoos in each category get circled, all the best zoos to see specific animals gets circled, etc. I make sure that I circle and tick off each zoo as the road trip progresses, and I'm just so thankful that the book was published before this holiday. Perhaps as the road trip takes us through Columbus and Cincinnati in Ohio I can send you a private message and we can see about meeting. You never know, if it works for us and you're in Indianapolis at the time....I look forward to the possibility of meeting the famous author.

Next post: Montreal Biodome + Insectarium
 
FYI, I've put a response to snowleopard's review in the "Toronto Zoo subforum" thread ... currently in the US - general forum ... rather than cluttering this thread up.

(I'm not sure if I like this new organization on ZooBeat ... it makes it very difficult to tell at a glance what the new threads are for North American zoos!)
 
I will post a review of the Montreal Biodome in the next couple of days, and that building is probably unique in the world of captive wildlife. Four different ecosystems under the same roof, with some hit-and-miss results.

My wife and I spent two days in Montreal, then drove 3 hours to Quebec City and strolled around the downtown core. Then for the first time on this epic road trip the weather turned nasty and it rained cats and dogs all day long!! Yesterday, even allowing for stops and starts for fuel and food, I drove for 9 hours and covered a lot of kilometers (I do 100% of the driving).

We spent a couple of days around the Martime Provinces, and I type this in Waterville, Maine. The next couple of days will be bombing through 6 different U.S. States, as we will scoot down the I-95 and detour to Vermont just to say that we have been there. Earlier in the trip we actually spent 2-3 minutes in Iowa, as it was about 15 km out of our way and we aren't afraid to tick off as many States and Canadian Provinces as possible. New York City beckons, and the illustrious and famous Bronx Zoo is making my mouth water.....in a couple of days I'll be there for the first time ever. I realize that Wednesday is "free day", and so possibly Thursday or maybe Friday is the date for that zoo.
 
@snowleopard: thanks for the info on Chicago. I'm hoping to go there or to NYC next year so I'm also looking forward to reading your review of the Bronx Zoo.
 
Montreal Biodome Review - 2.5 hours (Zoo/Aquarium #8 for the road trip)

This establishment isn't really a true "zoo", but with more than 75 species of birds, and plenty of mammals, fish, reptiles and amphibians it is a major Canadian attraction.

This unique building was originally constructed in the 1970's for the 1976 Montreal Olympics, and was used for bike racing events. Eventually in 1992 the Biodome opened, a series of interconnecting rooms all under the same roof. There are 4 different ecosystems that have been created in this tremendously popular attraction, which pulls in almost one million visitors every year. My wife and I decided not to visit the nearby Insectarium, as a visitor cannot purchase separate passes anymore. We would have had to pay an additional $11 just for the "bug building" and botanical garden, and as we weren't interested in seeing the garden and wanted to leave Montreal after our two days...the bug-house didn't appear to justify a additional $22. It used to be $4 to visit the 160,000 mainly dead insects, but now the combo fee of $11 a person is a tad steep for animal fans who aren't necessarily insect lovers. I wouldn't have minded going myself, but my wife tends to skip the bug houses at zoos and since she is already going to so many collections at once I can't complain at all.

The 4 ecosystems:

Tropical Forest - the first and in my opinion best of the four, this lush rainforest actually benefited from being overgrown and messy. The mix of real and fake trees works in this particular setting, even with the glass roof peering through the canopy. The large amount of leaves that had fallen onto the visitor pathway, combined with the hard-to-find animals, made the experience in this ecosystem rather impressive. The large iguanas, small basilisk lizards, two-toed sloth and cotton-top tamarins all have large areas to roam (basically anywhere they want) and none of them were visible. The lack of appearances of some of the animals actually appealed to me, as all zoos and captive wildlife collections should force the visitors to actively search out the critters. There were a pair of golden lion tamarins that were screeching at each other only a few feet away from my wife's head, many macaws, frogs, birds, shoebills, capybaras, etc in various realistic habitats. A cave section has over 350 bats in large, glass-fronted exhibits that are effective at recreating an eerie atmosphere, and the audio guide that we purchased spit out a ton of useful information on the animals. Two anacondas laid in their watery exhibit, and the 3 species of monkey were loud but not always seen in the rainforest.

Laurentian Forest - a solid adaptation of a true forest, and in this ecosystem the leaves actually fall from the trees in the winter due to the mimicking of the natural outdoor environment. River otters, lynx, beavers and porcupines all have small yet naturalistic exhibits, along with some fish and amphibian tanks.

St. Lawrence Marine Ecosystem - definitely the most disappointing of the four ecosystems. One beautiful tank containing hundreds of large fish, but the rest of the huge room was poorly utilized. Many seagulls and other shore birds swooping over visitor heads, but mock-rock backgrounds dominated the fake landscape. The dominant images were a large tide pool that wasn't allowed to be touched, and seagulls flocking in the rafters.

Polar World - the smallest of the four, and also not that successful. The atlantic puffin/murre exhibit was nice enough, with plenty of rocks and water for these engaging birds. However, the 3 species of penguins were in a standard enclosure that has been done on numerous occasions. Why is seemingly every single penguin pool at every zoo only a few feet deep? Surely penguins dive more than 6 feet when searching for food in the wild? I'd love to see a penguin exhibit that had 20 feet of water depth....maybe one day.

Temporary Exhibition - a massive disappointment, as there were literally hundreds of stuffed animals, posters, books, etc, all promoting the "Madagascar" theme that is only there until this November. However, this all-important theme only consisted of 5 tanks of lizards, frogs and fish, and then one crappy wired cage with ring-tailed lemurs. Weak exhibit that I'd be embarrassed to promote. The lemur cage was a walk-through one, but the lemurs were hiding at the back in order to avoid the embarrassment of being seen in such a poor and confining enclosure.

Overall - the rainforest and temporal forest ecosystems were quite well done, and at that point in the day I was overjoyed with what I was seeing. The 20-minute film in the theater was also very interesting, as it goes behind the scenes and shows visitors how the building was transformed into animal exhibits, how the lighting works and changes throughout the day, how the animals were released into their respective exhibits, and many other intriguing facts and figures. The latter two ecosystems (St. Lawrence Marine and Polar World) were nothing special and quite disappointing. The special travelling exhibit of "Madagascar" was basically a disgrace.
 
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