South China Tigers born

[JonnyS18]

Excellent news for one of the rarest species on the planet

At the Wangcheng Zoo in the Chinese province of Henan, four tiger cubs represent new hope for an entire species. The cubs -- three born in late April and one in early May -- are members of the rarest tiger subspecies, the South China tiger.

South China tigers were once labeled "pests" by Mao Tse-tung, who recommended they be killed. Since the time of Mao's reign in China, their numbers have plummeted. Until 2007, when one of the tigers was seen in the wild for the first time since the 1960s, many scientists believed the species to be essentially extinct, surviving only in captivity. Even in captivity, there are reportedly fewer than 100 South China tigers in existence, almost all in a small number of zoos in China.

South China tigers are physically smaller than the more familiar Bengal and Siberian tigers, with more widely spaced stripes.

Your morning adorable: Critically endangered South China tiger cubs | L.A. Unleashed | Los Angeles Times

 

[reduakari]

Excellent news for one of the rarest species on the planet

At the Wangcheng Zoo in the Chinese province of Henan, four tiger cubs represent new hope for an entire species. The cubs -- three born in late April and one in early May -- are members of the rarest tiger subspecies, the South China tiger.

South China tigers were once labeled "pests" by Mao Tse-tung, who recommended they be killed. Since the time of Mao's reign in China, their numbers have plummeted. Until 2007, when one of the tigers was seen in the wild for the first time since the 1960s, many scientists believed the species to be essentially extinct, surviving only in captivity. Even in captivity, there are reportedly fewer than 100 South China tigers in existence, almost all in a small number of zoos in China.

South China tigers are physically smaller than the more familiar Bengal and Siberian tigers, with more widely spaced stripes.

Your morning adorable: Critically endangered South China tiger cubs | L.A. Unleashed | Los Angeles Times

The LA Times needs to do better fact-checking: the alleged 2007 "sighting" was clearly demonstrated to be a hoax last year--there are almost certainly no wild SC tigers remaining.

 

[JonnyS18]

The LA Times needs to do better fact-checking: the alleged 2007 "sighting" was clearly demonstrated to be a hoax last year--there are almost certainly no wild SC tigers remaining.

Yes i remember seeing the picture for the first time, im no expert on photography but even i could tell it was a fake. The tiger didn't even look connected to the forest in the background!
However people living in Southern China have claimed to have seen tiger pug marks, scat & even heard roaring at one point or another over the last few years... you never know there could be one or two still left out there....

 

[FSBlue]

Call me cynical, but it is only delaying the inevitable. Isn't the South China captive population descended from six individuals? Just when we get to scratch the Caspian subspecies off the extinct list, we'll add one soon enough.

 

[reduakari]

Call me cynical, but it is only delaying the inevitable. Isn't the South China captive population descended from six individuals? Just when we get to scratch the Caspian subspecies off the extinct list, we'll add one soon enough.

Not if the Chinese relent and "allow" their captive tigers to be cross-bred with Indo-Chinese tigers, which have been found to be genetically indistinguishable from SC Tigers.

 

[CZJimmy]

Reduakari or Johnny: was this the hoax image that you were referring to?

 

[reduakari]

Reduakari or Johnny: was this the hoax image that you were referring to?

That's the one!

 

[jbnbsn99]

Not if the Chinese relent and "allow" their captive tigers to be cross-bred with Indo-Chinese tigers, which have been found to be genetically indistinguishable from SC Tigers.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Not if the Chinese relent and "allow" their captive tigers to be cross-bred with Indo-Chinese tigers, which have been found to be genetically indistinguishable from SC Tigers.

I am rather conservative in this and even at just 6 founders (where traditional thought has 20+ founders as the absolute minimum) we should try and sustain this unique subspecies. As they say ..., it aint over till the fat lady sings no more (I go a little further down the line )!

Cross-breeding might be an option, I would not recommend it at this time. Indo Chinese tigers being indistiguishable from South China tigers is fine, just like the genetic difference between Caucasian and Aboriginal, yet we are still the same species. Be careful on that one. Three scientific lines, genetics, taxonomy and ecology should be one ... it is not for the above.

 

[reduakari]

I am rather conservative in this and even at just 6 founders (where traditional thought has 20+ founders as the absolute minimum) we should try and sustain this unique subspecies. As they say ..., it aint over till the fat lady sings no more (I go a little further down the line )!

Cross-breeding might be an option, I would not recommend it at this time. Indo Chinese tigers being indistiguishable from South China tigers is fine, just like the genetic difference between Caucasian and Aboriginal, yet we are still the same species. Be careful on that one. Three scientific lines, genetics, taxonomy and ecology should be one ... it is not for the above.

Well, some Floridians felt the same way about "their" panthers....which would be gone now had intentional cross-breeding with Texas mountain lions not occurred. A viable wild population of Felis concolor would not exist in Florida if political geography--rather than ecological and genetic equivalence--had been the primary determinant for hands-on conservation

 

[jbnbsn99]

There is some debate as the whether or not the Florida Panther is a valid subspecies. If not, then introducing new blood from Texas should be perfectly acceptable.

 

[Ituri]

A recently published genetic study names all North American puma (including Florida panther) as Puma concolor cougar

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

A recently published genetic study names all North American puma (including Florida panther) as Puma concolor cougar

Now those kind of studies one should take with a pinch of salt. They are dreamt up in the lab ... Even scientists should get out there in the wild ...! In the past we have had statements to the effect that all leopards in Africa were one subspecies. Ab shamb stuff!

 

[JonnyS18]

Reduakari or Johnny: was this the hoax image that you were referring to?

Yep! Blatently a fake

I think that the South china tiger should be preserved by any and all means necessary. I dont think those who can just give up & say 'its a lost cause' can really call themselves conservationists, even if there's just one pregnant female left, it isn't too late to save a species. The SC tiger is thought to be the oldest tiger subspecies, the original tiger, & for that reason alone it is vital that we don't lose them.

Im sure some of you may be aware of a project in South Africa working with SC tigers, teaching them how to hunt & breeding them so that their offspring can one day be released into a pilot reserve in Southern China. This project has had a lot of criticism, unfortunatly most of that criticism has come from conservationists who condem this project as a waste of time and money that could be spent on other endangered species. A lot of criticism has also been directed at the founder of the project, a wealthy former fashion model. Many have accused her of not knowing what shes talking about & say she should leave conservation to the ''professionals''. Its only people like this, who think you have to have a degree to care about wildlife, that p*** me off more than poachers! This woman has gone out of her way to spend her money on saving a species that the so called ''professionals'' have given up on. She deserves a medal if you ask me.

Save China's Tigers | SAVE CHINA'S TIGERS

 

[Pertinax]

I'm wondering if these four tiger cubs featured in the article are being raised by their mothers or handreared? It does not say anything about that. They may have been removed just for the photos of course, but rather like the Giant Pandas, the Chinese seem very keen to handraise rare species, which actually is not doing them any favours for future socialisation.

Perhaps these cubs or some of them will be sent to the South African project, which despite its unorthodox approach, does seem to be yielding positive results now with nine tigers in all.

 

[Jurek7]

I heard all zoo South Chinese Tigers descend just from 6 animals and inbreeding effects are very visible.

 

[JonnyS18]

I'm wondering if these four tiger cubs featured in the article are being raised by their mothers or handreared? It does not say anything about that. They may have been removed just for the photos of course, but rather like the Giant Pandas, the Chinese seem very keen to handraise rare species, which actually is not doing them any favours for future socialisation.

Perhaps these cubs or some of them will be sent to the South African project, which despite its unorthodox approach, does seem to be yielding positive results now with nine tigers in all.

I think they are handrearing them but this could be for a number of reasons. With such a fragile species, mortality rate for a SC tiger cub is very high, & every cub born is vital for the future of the species. Handrearing is probably the best way of insuring the survival of the young tigers. But i do agree, Chinese zoos do seem to have a very 'hands-on' approach in zoos.
I too hope one or more of these cubs are sent to SA, as they would have a much better upbringing in the semi-wild conditions, & also serve as important founders for their species' future. Unorthodox isn't the word i would use.. improved seems more like it!

 

[Pertinax]

I too hope one or more of these cubs are sent to SA, as they would have a much better upbringing in the semi-wild conditions, & also serve as important founders for their species' future. Unorthodox isn't the word i would use.. improved seems more like it!

I wonder if these cubs are 'relatively' unrelated to the 4 South African founders? They would certainly develop healthier and stronger physiques living the 'South African' way. Most of the photos I have seen of South China tigers show them living in cramped & basic barred 'zoo' cages and the tigers themselves look rather 'wasted' with weak hindquarters etc. I suspect this is as much to do with the conditions they are kept under, and general unfitness as much as inbreeding.

In that respect it will be interesting to see how the cubs born in South Africa and living under much better conditions, will develop. Will they be similar, or, as I expect, much morerobust? When I first read about that scheme I wondered whether it was realistic or not. Then one of the first two tigers(the male Hope) died and the project seemed almost doomed before it had properly started. But they have persevered and I think they are to be admired for what they have achieved so far which is a fairly significant leap forward. Five cubs born, and tigers learning how to hunt. Pretty good going I think.

 

[JonnyS18]

Well said pertinax, Couldnt have put it better myself mate However i may soon have to correct you about the number of cubs in the reserve. The newest adult Tiger, male ''327'' succesfully mated with ''Cathay'' over a 4 day period, late last month. So we might be seeing a few more succesfull births in the near future, & as an added bonus, any cubs born to ''Cathay'' & ''327'' will be completely unrelated to ''Madonna's'' cubs.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I am not sure which zoos are currently involved in the South China breeding programme. I know of old that the principal breeders have been Shanghai, Chongqing, Suzhou and Guangzhou zoos. All progeny from these zoos have been distributed to a further 13+ zoos in P.R. China and all are related and from just the 6 founders.

The source population for the South China Rewilding programme are the 4 zoos mentioned above, so their founders are not different to them. As for general fitness; the current group of breeding South China tigers only consists of those individuals capable of natural reproduction.
Whereas, admittedly enclosures in Chinese zoos are different to the concepts we are used to, some improvements have been made since 1995. The Shanghai Zoo f.i. has progressively replaced all South China tiger enclosures for naturally designed ones (somehow based on the open pit Hagenbeck style building).