SmallestGiraffe
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The barn is split into three sections but as one is for the hybrid males there wasn't space for both mothers with calf's :/ The sections are quite small and there's also reindeers in there with them!
South Lakes Wild Animal Park South lakes 2014 news
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Space is the keyword here. Or rather not enough of it. That's why the calf was bumped by another adult. In the wild of course that just wouldn't happen, a mother would just keep the calf away from other Giraffe until it was just a bit stronger and older and they have all the space in the world anyway so this sort of thing doesn't occur.
Though not best practice I don't think the 'pestering' by the owner and his kids, or putting it out too early on display were contributory factors, but not being seperated was.
Though not best practice I don't think the 'pestering' by the owner and his kids, or putting it out too early on display were contributory factors, but not being seperated was.
SmallestGiraffe
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Yes i'm inclined to agree... Hopefully with the new giraffe house being built on the expansion there shall be more room for them all and the boisterous adults can be kept seperate until any future calf is strong enough to integrate safely.
Oh no I never thought that her injury was due to 'pestering' or being on display too early, I just thought that mother/calf bonding was hindered by doing just that, as SmallestGiraffe stated in an earlier post Elouise never shown much interest in her, I just don't think that precious alone time was given to them both. I have visited a lot over the last few weeks purely to see Belle. I just find the whole situation so sad and so unnecessary and I do feel for the keepers that are trying their best, hopefully things will improve when they are separated and moved to their new enclosure. Here's hoping anyways ...
SmallestGiraffe
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Yeah definitely the mother/calf relationships are not as strong as i have seen in other zoo's which i suspect is down to the space issues and the fact that they weren't given the precious bonding time. Even when Elouise and Belle were seperated off due to her injury she still did not seem too interested in her. I have not yet been able to get to the zoo to see the male calf but as far as i know him and Katoumi are still seperated from the main group?
SmallestGiraffe, on Monday they were definitely not separated from the rest of the herd at all. This is what I cannot understand ... lessons have NOT be learned by what happened to Belle in such a small enclosure, the same could happen to the male calf very easily. I would have thought steps would have been taken to ensure this did not happen again but no, all still crammed in together. Think me and you should meet up, break in and do Gill's job for him 
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Ever thought that could have anything to do with the fact at just a few hours old she was split from mum so the great lord Yorik could take pictures of himself and his kids with the newest baby!
And that is the whole of the SLWAP circus in action. Never admit to a mistake and then you can't repeat said mistake!
Pertinax here are a couple of old photos at least 2004 that show the sett up, it wasn't even good viewing as the animals stand above the shelf and the barrier prevents you getting to close. Marwell has or had a much better set up for indoor viewing.
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Mother Giraffe do often leave the young unattended which is not the same as not being interested in the calf. Provided the calf is suckling the mother at intervals, then a proper bond has already been established, as 1. the calf knows how to suck, and 2. the mother allows it to- those are really the only factors necessary.
As I said above, I would put this accident down mainly to overcrowding . A calf really needs its own space clear of other adults, at least till its strong on its feet.
zoogiraffe
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From memory thats what it was still like 2 years ago when I last visited!
zoogiraffe
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I'm afraid I just can't get any enthusiasm for this place- everything one hears and sees about it seems bad. And how can you hold any respect for an owner who just lies blatantly in the face of awkward situations- the young tiger and what happened to it.
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zoogiraffe
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I couldn't agree more I couldn't even summon up the enthusiasm to visit when he did the free entry over winter,actually sorry the free entry with the compulsory donation to enter!
The thing that staggers me is the sheer number of people that just swallow,his bull manure as because he has said it that it must be true,when if they just did a little digging they would see how little of it is true!!But when people that do say something on the parks facebook page that doesn't agree with him,or that shows he is wrong it gets removed and them banned from posting,I think thats just about says it all at this place there is only one truth and that is Mr Gill aka Yorik version of the truth!!
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Big Rob
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There were no Reindeer in with the Giraffes on Tuesday,they were all outside in a tiny enclosure on gravel/concrete, and the new male calf and his mother was in one section-Belle and her mother and 2 others in the next section-then 2 others Giraffes in the final section.
I am currently uploading some photos taken on 1-4-14 at about 3-45pm.
The first few will be concerning Belle and the Giraffes,but there will be more later showing other enclosures and the progress made on the new enclosures.
My experience of SLWAP till date has been nil and is not likely to change soon (given distance, North Sea and a few other obstacles aside). The description of the (old) giraffe stalls I had been familiar with that it was tiny by comparison and also a peculiar visitor viewing area.
Now - given Pertinax description - of the inside stalls and boxes, I must admit it is wholly inadequate to hold a breeding group of giraffe and on top of that a group of surplus males. The close confinement and unavailability of separate mother-calf stalling - preferably with a breeding group that should at least have been 2 (1+1+1+2 = a minimum 5) - aside from holding spaces for a bachelor male group requiring further - preferably away - stalling.
Most modern giraffe facilities now have in various degrees the ability to separate / close off individual spaces and create individual boxes simply overnight (quite a few examples I have seen from my own experience). Most of these have a large indoor yard for all giraffe to use and further stalling to enable separation of bull, mother-calf and various other combinations (usually related mother-daughter/son, female to calve soon …).
And has already been mentioned here females in calf in the wild would separate themselves to give birth alone and after birth stand over calf and for several days more or less stay in the same spot for as long as the calf needs to get up and go. After that she will go back to the safety of the harem herd … with other females and calves of varying ages and stage of development.
Thus it is unusual for a female giraffe to have to have to deal with another calf in her spot close to her own and that a giraffe mother will than act in the way described here is not unheard of.
All of this seems never to have been possible in the SLWAP set up. An incident of the nature that befell female Kordofan Belle was thus an accident waiting to happen.
Now - given Pertinax description - of the inside stalls and boxes, I must admit it is wholly inadequate to hold a breeding group of giraffe and on top of that a group of surplus males. The close confinement and unavailability of separate mother-calf stalling - preferably with a breeding group that should at least have been 2 (1+1+1+2 = a minimum 5) - aside from holding spaces for a bachelor male group requiring further - preferably away - stalling.
Most modern giraffe facilities now have in various degrees the ability to separate / close off individual spaces and create individual boxes simply overnight (quite a few examples I have seen from my own experience). Most of these have a large indoor yard for all giraffe to use and further stalling to enable separation of bull, mother-calf and various other combinations (usually related mother-daughter/son, female to calve soon …).
And has already been mentioned here females in calf in the wild would separate themselves to give birth alone and after birth stand over calf and for several days more or less stay in the same spot for as long as the calf needs to get up and go. After that she will go back to the safety of the harem herd … with other females and calves of varying ages and stage of development.
Thus it is unusual for a female giraffe to have to have to deal with another calf in her spot close to her own and that a giraffe mother will than act in the way described here is not unheard of.
All of this seems never to have been possible in the SLWAP set up. An incident of the nature that befell female Kordofan Belle was thus an accident waiting to happen.
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