In reply to Shorts who said:
"Point 1: Who was setting up a zoo at the same time and has grown it to the size of South Lakes, I can't think of any;
Point 2: I'm not saying he was the first to "do" lemur & kangaroo walk-throughs, but he was amongst the earliest;
Point 3: Although some collections had bears they had held historically around the same time and still do (have Camperdown ever been out in recent history) they weren't going into them, I believe he was against the flow when he went into them, no-one else really was;
Point 4: Who in the UK was using hot wires for bears prior to Gill? Were Glasgow (as I can't think of any others);
Point 5:The nearest sizeable zoo is a long way away, "Trotters" is 50 miles and 90 minutes away and Blackpool is similar in terms of travel time.
Finally, do you ever post anything positive and/or about other places?"
Point 1: You will find a list of zoos in reference to your question within The Bartlett Society
Closed collections - The Bartlett Society There are indeed other animal collections that started up on or before or just near to when SLWAP started, and some have managed to come close or even grow greater than SLWAP. Just because you can’t think of any does not there are none.
Point 2: Previous other animal collections within the UK, within Europe, were way ahead of SLWAP regarding walk through exhibits. You will find part of your question was answered in zoochat via
http://www.zoochat.com/38/why-no-walk-throughs-free-roaming-281439/ Blackpool has given a good article within International Zoo News
International Zoo News Vol. 47/8 (No. 305) many zoos and safari parks had kangaroo walk through and mixed exhibits that were ahead of SLWAP. Gill was not an “innovator”, but he was a high risk taker. He was a very dangerous fool when it comes to risks and being off-the-cuff personality is a very dangerous one at that, somewhat detached if not deranged. Dave Gill was not amongst the earliest, actually, you will find he has copied (like many others have done as well) from other collections that were doing it before him.
Point 3: Collections that went in with bears, including Aspinall and his parks are again known. Dave Gill did not lead the way or have any instrumental touch regarding bears becoming more common in zoos within the UK, that’s just utter mince. Likewise, I am sure Doug Richardson would back up what I am saying and give a better account, especially with his specialist knowledge of bears, especially from working at Rome Zoo. When Glasgow held the Conference Proceedings of “Bears: Their Status, Conservation & Welfare in Captivity” 1994, we gave many accounts of how hot-wire or electric fencing was used. Page 47 of those proceeding’s has a four page article on such fencing. You also have Highland Wildlife Park; Jersey Wildlife Preservation Trust; Glasgow Zoo; numerous workshops covering various topics inkling hot wires, from various zoos. Only idiots and daft people go in with bears and carnivores to show off or to “hey look everyone, I am in with the bears” attitude. Oh, and just remember Gill was photographed riding his Rhino, the same one which escaped. The Management and Behaviour of Captive Polar Bears; Alison Ames, 2000 (if you want a copy, the going price for the booklet is £300 plus), again this also covers various zoos etc. from various dates, prior to Dave Gill. When I worked with the polar bears at Edinburgh, when the cub was born back in the mid1980s, hot wires were used. Dave Gill has nothing whatsoever to do with bears being more common and seen within UK zoos and as for going in with them, the rules, and laws which Gill still does not have a clue about, are there fo a good reason.
Point 4: Dave ill did not “pioneer” hot-wires for bears within the UK, again that’s just utter nonsense. Dave Gill has this fantasy that he “pioneered” many things within the zoo industry however, we call all agree that he has not and did not “pioneer” anything, anything but supply his own ego with a flair for hot wind. Edinburgh had hot-wires for the Barbary macaques, bears, rhino and some others which I can remember whilst I worked their back in the mid to late 1980s. Glasgow was the same as well as Blackpool and others. I am sure keepers from those collections who worked or have knowledge of this will speak up. Zoocheck wrote an article regarding the drawbacks of electric fences, naming Jersey Zoo with dates prior to Dave Gill setting up his South Lakes park.
Point 5: You mention how the nearest sizable zoos are a long way off, quoting 50 and 90 miles. Come of it, that’s not far, are you having a laugh?
Do I post anything positive and/or about other places? Yes, of course I do, but I feel you have an air of humbug and disquiet about you.
You posted the following: “I've got no problem calling South Lakes/Gill on husbandry/zoo management decisions, that's fine, but on occasion is does seem that there's a mob mentality queuing up to be the "righteous people" kicking the "baddie" (see Tw*tter et al).”
The reason why there is a “mob mentality” as you so put it; is frankly down to the manner, the hopeless mechanism of Gill is “the master of the universe” and the amount of utter nonsense the man gives out. It is like he actually wants everyone talking about him, even if it is for the wrong reasons. We know Gill is an idiot, a fool, and a very dangerous person. We all know that he has done some criminal wrongs as well as continue to break every rule in the book. I and others have posted news from Dave Gill and his park or zoo or safari zoo or whatever he wants to call it, this news has come from Dave Gill and from his park. All we are doing is discussing what he has mentioned. I believe we should have an opinion and the ability to share it, but also to do so in a non-confrontational manner. However, this can be difficult at times and with topics or subjects which cover places and people who we all know have a previous distaste and which leaves a bad sour-like taste on the tongue; then it can be hard to refrain from talking ill of hat person or place. It’s normal and it’s human.
Dublinlion sounds more like yorick's alter ego, his other half. It is noted that Dublinlion threw the baby out of the bath regarding “neutral” and that “it does not come across as balanced criticism” Others have tried to keep to the news however, there does seem to be a thread of disagreement from one or two. That’s fine and well. But it would be a tragedy and a wrong to see this thread dive down, deteriorate and or to close or be deleted. The news is up for discussion and the discussion is the news. Tomato is tam at o, potato is pa tat o. Likewise, let’s keep it all friendly and civil. Now let’s have group hug….
Referencing closed collections (none of which I can think attained South Lakes size and then failed) doesn't really make your point. Can you specifically name any?
). My point is South Lakes began keeping bears when no other collections were starting to keep bears when they previously hadn't -at the time UK collections didn't seem to have the stomach for keeping bears and many were happy to transfer bears out or cease keeping them on deaths. I'm not saying other places weren't keeping them, merely that the general flow was against keeping them and South Lakes went against that flow. It is, however, a fair point that Scottish collections (thankfully) never really went out of bears like the rest of the UK did, respect!
. If it wasn't a big deal I'm sure a lot more collections would have thrived more than they have done (Whipsnade and Howletts come to mind) -though I appreciate visitor numbers aren't just related to traveling distances.
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