South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes WAP expansion plans
- Thread starter kiang
- Start date
South lakes are very good at copying others and claiming it was their idea in the first place !! South lakes is, like its owner, on one very large ego-trip.
By the way, anyone that can ride around sat on the back of an adult white rhino acting like some kind of cowboy waving his hat around should not be taken seriously!!.
A further annoucement on South Lakes's facebook page tonight.... Now back tracking and they apparently haven't got permission from this 
MORE EXPANSION NEWS...... CAN YOU HELP?
Well it is not as good as it sounds re the EXPANSION.
Barrow Borough Council were sent all the required documents for the conditions that we were asked to fulfill back in May 2012. They still have not approved them , despite the rules stating they must deal with it within 12 weeks. We have been told to appeal...yet as they know all this does is delay the development by possibly 6 more months. I don't have a clue how to get the Planning Department to approve the conditions as they do not seem to communicate ... but sitting on the papers for around 6 months is just one more instance of Barrow Borough Councils attitude towards this zoo and the expansion of safe car parking and jobs.
MAYBE A FEW HUNDRED COMPLAINTS to their Development Director and the Barrow Labour Council Group who control the planning committee may help? *************** and ************* are the Chief Executives of the Council
**Have removed the names/email address's given on the original quote (If your desperate to see them, then they are avaliable from South Lakes's Facebook page)
MORE EXPANSION NEWS...... CAN YOU HELP?
Well it is not as good as it sounds re the EXPANSION.
Barrow Borough Council were sent all the required documents for the conditions that we were asked to fulfill back in May 2012. They still have not approved them , despite the rules stating they must deal with it within 12 weeks. We have been told to appeal...yet as they know all this does is delay the development by possibly 6 more months. I don't have a clue how to get the Planning Department to approve the conditions as they do not seem to communicate ... but sitting on the papers for around 6 months is just one more instance of Barrow Borough Councils attitude towards this zoo and the expansion of safe car parking and jobs.
MAYBE A FEW HUNDRED COMPLAINTS to their Development Director and the Barrow Labour Council Group who control the planning committee may help? *************** and ************* are the Chief Executives of the Council
**Have removed the names/email address's given on the original quote (If your desperate to see them, then they are avaliable from South Lakes's Facebook page)
why would they have announced that full planning permission had been approved when it quite plainly hadn't?
Also, p.s., you guys are in for such a yoriking over the big cat feeding thing! Everyone knows lions and tigers mainly hunt in the wild by pouncing on their prey from the tops of tall poles. That's what their bodies are adapted for!!!
Also, p.s., you guys are in for such a yoriking over the big cat feeding thing! Everyone knows lions and tigers mainly hunt in the wild by pouncing on their prey from the tops of tall poles. That's what their bodies are adapted for!!!
This is last nights quote for anyone who isn't on FB:
ZOO EXPANSION:
I am very excited and pleased to announce that after nearly 4 years of hard work on our part we have finally got permission and the ability to start work tomorrow on the expansion of the zoo to make it nearly 3 times bigger. However with all the rain and the delays it is unlikely we will be able to open the new zoo until Easter 2014
...Back tracking indeed
ZOO EXPANSION:
I am very excited and pleased to announce that after nearly 4 years of hard work on our part we have finally got permission and the ability to start work tomorrow on the expansion of the zoo to make it nearly 3 times bigger. However with all the rain and the delays it is unlikely we will be able to open the new zoo until Easter 2014
...Back tracking indeed
That's South Lakes for you.
As i understand it it wasn't on the zoo's website , only it's facebook, is that administered by the zoo itself?
Certinley is. Both of those posts signed off by the owner himself....
That makes the first statement all the more confusing then! Why say something that wasn't true, it gives the owner even less credibility than he had previously!
But then last time i looked at their website it contained a number of inaccuracies, half-truths or exaggerations.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I've read that the bone density in captive cats fed in this way was much higher, and that the conclusion was the bones were stronger, from this I would have assumed maybe joints would be too, however it would be interesting to see some research on arthritis and joint problems in cats fed in this way.
I was raising that again in respect of all/any Zoos that practice pole-feeding, not particularly with reference to SL.
I'd be interested to know any clinical findings and whether it is indeed harmful or not- but maybe no-one knows yet?
It is certainly 'enrichment' but seems very unnatural behaviour and possibly harmful longterm.
Mr T
Well-Known Member
I appreciate what you're saying but how much enrichment in zoos can be considered very natural? Does a pig rolling a ball around to get food out count as being natural? Or how about chimpanzees being given ice blocks? or even polar bears being given large plastic bottles to play with?
In terms of causing possible harm, surely many forms of enrichment have an element of risk, for example animals chocking on plastic toys. If no evidence has been put forward to prove it is causing detrimental damage then why would they stop the practice?
In terms of causing possible harm, surely many forms of enrichment have an element of risk, for example animals chocking on plastic toys. If no evidence has been put forward to prove it is causing detrimental damage then why would they stop the practice?
Just a thought but don't tigers feed quite readily on peafowl in the wild? That would probably see them leaping into the air to seize prey - and falling back to earth!
I know it's not a 12 foot pole but ..............
I know it's not a 12 foot pole but ..............
I'm not saying they would/should stop the practice- but still wonder if this form of extertion, particularly the shock of heavy landing from a great height, might be harmful longterm. I don't know how many Zoos use this style of feeding but I know its not just SL.
Regarding other forms of enrichment- most are not natural either, but are normally arranged to eliminate possibly harmful risks.
It has been proven that pole-feeding big cats as enrichment has caused injury to the animals in respect of spinal and leg injuries. Pole-feeding is more suited to arboreal cats such as Leopards and Jaguars etc..
Enrichment is on the whole a very important part of animal husbandry however it can , and does, go wrong, not just with pole-feeding but many other forms as well, and there are many examples of this.
Whether an enrichment is "natural" or not is a major subject which has been covered before on zoochat on other threads.
With regard to South Lakes they are well known for making their own headlines and using the press to their advantage, they have fallen out of favour with the council on many occasions and have simply shot themselves in the foot, so if the council are being less than helpful it is really no great suprise, they can only blame themselves.
Enrichment is on the whole a very important part of animal husbandry however it can , and does, go wrong, not just with pole-feeding but many other forms as well, and there are many examples of this.
Whether an enrichment is "natural" or not is a major subject which has been covered before on zoochat on other threads.
With regard to South Lakes they are well known for making their own headlines and using the press to their advantage, they have fallen out of favour with the council on many occasions and have simply shot themselves in the foot, so if the council are being less than helpful it is really no great suprise, they can only blame themselves.
bigcat speciali
Well-Known Member
As a good enrichment tool, the tall feeding pole does have it's pro's & con's just like any other enrichment device. SLWAP has blown it's trumpet far too many times regarding that they devised such a device as well as other very outlandish ego tripping claims. PETA in the US have made claims that big cats using such enrichment tools have came to harm. There is very little to show in journals that any harm has been done with big cats let alone leopards etc. As far as I know, could be wrong, but the best person on the topic of bone density would br Dr Andrew Kitchener at the National Museums Scotland, where he is the curator of vertebrates. He has written numerous reports and papers on bone density in bears, which I know as the Asiatic Black Bears from Glasgow was used in these studies. Exercise is of course required but it depends on the type, the frequency and if the establishment is good or not good at giving such. Frequency for the feeding pole is seen at most establishments as being far too much. In other words, such collections over-use this tool for gratification and audience means. Just as one collection which is deemed unfit for its purpose has cheetah running on a zip wire and the frequency of that tool is over-used and is ego driven rather than for welfare and behaviour purposes. There is good and bad in all things, getting the right balance is hard to do but worth it. The pole at Glasgow did not result in any injuries and bone weakness, again the feeding pole was used nowhere as frequent as today's collections. Nanook, try reading ABWAK's Guidelines For Environmental Enrichment as well as some other books and journals such as Robert Young's Environmental Enrichment For Captive Animals or the Guidelines by Dr Graham Law used for Exotic Felids in Captivity. I do agree with Nanook that SLWAP has shot themselves in their own foot and blowing their own ego-driven trumpet
As a good enrichment tool, the tall feeding pole does have it's pro's & con's just like any other enrichment device. SLWAP has blown it's trumpet far too many times regarding that they devised such a device as well as other very outlandish ego tripping claims. PETA in the US have made claims that big cats using such enrichment tools have came to harm. There is very little to show in journals that any harm has been done with big cats let alone leopards etc. As far as I know, could be wrong, but the best person on the topic of bone density would br Dr Andrew Kitchener at the National Museums Scotland, where he is the curator of vertebrates. He has written numerous reports and papers on bone density in bears, which I know as the Asiatic Black Bears from Glasgow was used in these studies. Exercise is of course required but it depends on the type, the frequency and if the establishment is good or not good at giving such. Frequency for the feeding pole is seen at most establishments as being far too much. In other words, such collections over-use this tool for gratification and audience means. Just as one collection which is deemed unfit for its purpose has cheetah running on a zip wire and the frequency of that tool is over-used and is ego driven rather than for welfare and behaviour purposes. There is good and bad in all things, getting the right balance is hard to do but worth it. The pole at Glasgow did not result in any injuries and bone weakness, again the feeding pole was used nowhere as frequent as today's collections. Nanook, try reading ABWAK's Guidelines For Environmental Enrichment as well as some other books and journals such as Robert Young's Environmental Enrichment For Captive Animals or the Guidelines by Dr Graham Law used for Exotic Felids in Captivity. I do agree with Nanook that SLWAP has shot themselves in their own foot and blowing their own ego-driven trumpet
I have both those journals you mention, and I have read them too, I have even written articles on the subject as well. Clever me!
Incidentally, my lack of faith in Mr Gill comes from being around when he took charge of his first animals bound for South lakes when he clearly showed his inexperience with animals and lack of knowledge. Then when he lost further animals that were given to him out of ignorance. No more were sent to him subsequently as a result. So I have good reasons for my views. Enough said.