South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes

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I do not know what standing David Gill has in the EAZA zoo community. Perhaps he is somewhat an eccentric as a non-traditional zoo owner (like John Aspinall was in the early days).Quote from jelle.
Not very well would be what i would say if what i`ve heard is true then he could well have problems not going to say what as it may not be true but i don`t think so.


Also he`s just had his zoo inspection and that didn`t go well as their were some health and safety concerns raised by them over quite a few things the main ones been the lack of staff supervision in the walk through Kangaroo exhibit and the Ring-tailed Lemurs entering the Restuarant,this info came from the local news paper.
 
jelle said:
Bekesbourne+Port Lympne estates are a wonderful institution, but sometimes I frown upon their lack of ... or sub optimal cooperation with established EEP programmes (lowland gorilla and eastern black rhino) and acting rather out of self interest
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Jelle- I'm sure you can trace this back to the early days when John Aspinall was a 'maverick' in the zooworld- he was openly critical of more conventional zoos and had very little, if any involvement with them. Even now the Aspinall parks still seem to act very independently and I suspect where they do have involvement with EEP programmes it is because the animals they hold are not their own. I know that with the Drills for example, they were obtained from Stuttgart Zoo so they must comply with the EEP over their management- but with many other species, notably Gorillas and Rhinos, these are their largely their own property so they do as they wish with these species.. That's my take on it anyway.
 
zoogiraffe said:
I do not know what standing David Gill has in the EAZA zoo community.
Also he`s just had his zoo inspection and that didn`t go well as their were some health and safety concerns raised by them over quite a few things
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He does seem to attract a lot of critisism. Maybe there are parallels here with the early days of the Aspinall Parks. Before they were opened to the public, Howletts would never have passed Health and Safety inspections, even by the standards of the 1960's.
 
Pertinax said:
He does seem to attract a lot of critisism. Maybe there are parallels here with the early days of the Aspinall Parks. Before they were opened to the public, Howletts would never have passed Health and Safety inspections, even by the standards of the 1960's.
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Problem here is that the park is open to the public and the inspection found some serious helth and safety issues,ok i personnel don`t mind a Ring-tailed Lemur landing on my head while eating,but the way they are chased out with brooms and water spray bottles i do object to particular when you get wet and don`t get an apology from the staff is out of order.Also if you are apart of EEP programs you should follow their guide lines i know of at least one species in which South Lakes are not.
 
I have NOT been there, but from everything I have heard, read, been told, seen photos of, and also from the reports on this forum too- it does seem South Lakes is something of a 'cowboy collection'- hurriedly built, has probably grown to fast, boastful claims about conservation policies, health and safety issues, animal escapes, species kept in unsatisfactory multiple mixed exhibits, car parking issues, a murder attempt on the owner, owner's track record in Australia... need I go on?
 
Pertinax - You need to see it for yourself before judging. It is idiosyncratic, particularly with regard to the mixed species exhibits which seem a bit over-ambitious at times. However, it is an interesting collection and the standard of the enclosures and husbandry seems high to me.
 
Pygathrix said:
Pertinax - You need to see it for yourself before judging. It is idiosyncratic, particularly with regard to the mixed species exhibits which seem a bit over-ambitious at times. However, it is an interesting collection and the standard of the enclosures and husbandry seems high to me.
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Yes, I agree- unfortunately its a long way away. You'll note that I didn't criticise the standards of actual animal care or management(apart from the reference to mixed exhibits) as I'm aware you can't judge that properly without seeing it, nor have I heard any adverse reports on that score. Its just that it seems to attract more than its fair share of bad publicity. :confused:
 
reports in newspapers

If we believed all we read in Newpapers the world would collapse into a world that uses gossip and exaggeration as its basis of creating a "new fact". Sadly it seems that characters that are innovative, successful or indeed determined to change establishment are usually described as maverick or worse. I read some childish and simply disgusting uneducated comments on this site from people who clearly rely on gossip, newspapers and have no experience at all of the person or the park. We are all very quick to take personal jibes and critisise but how many of you out there commenting have put your life on the line, borrowed to the hilt, worked 24/7 for years in order to fulfill an in situ /ex situ conservation project that contributes with serious passion? The latest comments in this thread are reliant on a rag newspaper. The actual Zoo inspection was introduced to the council as an" excellent inspection report" and the committee approved all the changes to the licence without any concerns at all. The Health and safety issues you mention? Well I have seen the report and I cant see any? but hey Newspapers dont sell unless there is controversy ! The keepers at South Lakes should be and I know are very proud of their park , the differences and indeed the management that allows conservation to drive the way the park develops. So yes I have heard of the john aspinal mirror and maybe its true a little but I am aware that South Lakes has managed 8 ESB studbooks and an EEP for many years and has excellent standing in EAZA as they are also on a number of committees. Not only that they are very close to ALPZA doing some great work in assisting South American Zoos to change and design new facilities. I think there is too much focus on the negativity especially from the Aussy contingent who also it is clear from the threads have no idea of the real situation that happened out there. I know David is a Englishman who built his park in his home town and what ever you may say, the public love what he has done and continues to do simply by going there in their droves constantly and supporting the conservation projects and the two charities that it supports . I also know that the 2 female rhino are pregnant and due in mid 2008 although results are awaited from europe on faecal testing. my final word here would be , that before laying into people for whatever reason you may have , just think whether you have done more or contributed constructively to the zoo world or conservation...it is difficult enough to work under the way our world operates but to have negative comment that is not fair makes it more difficult. regards to all.
 
Rhinos at South Lakes

I'm glad to hear that the 2 female rhinos are definately pregnant and due this year. Do you think there is any chance of the giraffes ever being changed from a batchelor herd to a proper breeding herd. It would be an amazing sight to see baby rhinos and giraffes mixing on the huge exhibit they have.

A few points though with these impending births:
1) I know South Lakes have another male that has been dsicarded from the group, will be stay at the park or are plans been made for him to move to another park
2) If this was to happen though could it affect the chances of breeding. The reason the breeding male has been so successful may be because he has male competition in sight and smell of him
3) When the baby rhinos are born what will the procedure be in terms of the baboons and giraffes that share the enclosure, will they stay or be moved out while the rhinos grow big enough to look after themselves
 
all of yorik's posts are simply attacking other members' posts and saying how everybody on here is ignorant, uneducated, moronic, etc etc etc. Apparently everybody except him/herself knows absolutely nothing. What's the deal with that?
 
Chlidonias said:
all of yorik's posts are simply attacking other members' posts and saying how everybody on here is ignorant, uneducated, moronic, etc etc etc. Apparently everybody except him/herself knows absolutely nothing. What's the deal with that?
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Childonias, I've already brought this up in the spectacled bears at chester thread where he/her posted a near identical message...

so much conflict on these boards nowadays...
 
Chlidonias said:
all of yorik's posts are simply attacking other members' posts and saying how everybody on here is ignorant, uneducated, moronic, etc etc etc. Apparently everybody except him/herself knows absolutely nothing. What's the deal with that?
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Yes I'm sure Yorik would know quite alot about South Lakes but I'd say Yorik's opinion and comments are very biased
 
CZJimmy said:
Childonias, I've already brought this up in the spectacled bears at chester thread where he/her posted a near identical message...

so much conflict on these boards nowadays...
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Yes, I'd like to see less hostility too.
 
Can anyone explain to me why they have so far had no success in breeding their tigers? (unless I have missed something). In some collections, Sumatran tigers do very well indeed, and breed again and again (dudley, thrigby, paignton, chessington), but in others, nothing at all. I would really like to study the different factors and variables affecting this species in zoos. I wonder whether cortisol levels are affected by the proximity/ volume of visitors, proximity of other carnivores, noise levels etc, and whether there is an optimum level below which the cats are more likely to breed?
 
johnstoni said:
In some collections, Sumatran tigers do very well indeed, and breed again and again (dudley, thrigby, paignton, chessington), but in others, nothing at all. I wonder whether cortisol levels are affected by the proximity/ volume of visitors, proximity of other carnivores, noise levels etc, and whether there is an optimum level below which the cats are more likely to breed?
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Yes, this is an interesting subject. Another zoo that fails, having only bred one cub, is ZSL. Here they are in close proximity with lions- but so they are at Chessington, Paignton and perhaps(?) Dudley so that doesn't seem the answer. Sumatrans can sometimes be very nervous- possibly if even one of a pair is easily stressed (for whatever reason) it might reduce the chance of successful breeding. Just an idea and I don't really know.
 
I was thinking that other cats may contribute certainly, but then enclosure design also, especially how secure the tigers feel, whether visitors have access all round the edge of the enclosure, whether the sleeping areas are situated in a quiet part of the exhibit, and whether visitor numbers are particularly high. I wonder how, chemically, large cats react to having to 'work' for their food and consume it in front of large numbers of visitors, or with a PA system amplifying a keeper talk around the enclosure at the same time?

I don't know what it is about the ZSL cat terraces, but the tiger area 'seems' so claustrophobic, I have no idea whether the cats react badly to the area, but there aren't really any good quiet areas they can slope off to. I'd be really interested to hear anyone's opinion on this as I'm seriously considering doing an animal behaviour-related masters at some point and I'm wondering if studies have been done already. One the other hand, what would you do if there really was a magic recipe for breeding this animal, are there really enough institutions with space for them if everywhere was able to breed from all genetically-valuable stock?
 
johnstoni said:
I don't know what it is about the ZSL cat terraces, but the tiger area 'seems' so claustrophobic, I have no idea whether the cats react badly to the area, but there aren't really any good quiet areas they can slope off to.
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You could have a point there- the Tiger enclosure at ZSL is effectively an island as people can go all around it(even if they're not close to the animals at all points) and they can't retreat that far away from the sound of people. At most zoos visitors tend to have acces only at the front, or say, on two sides of an enclosure, rather than all around it.
 
Photos

I was wondering if anyone had many photos of the mixed bear/tapir exhibit? Ones with both in view would be amazing?

Thanks guys!
 
The sumatran tigers at melbourne have two viewing areas. 1 is behind glass and a high fence while the other is open and moated. They seem to spend more time at the glass area. They did breed very soon after being introduced so maybe noise and being able to get away from it does have an effect or maybe melbourne were lucky with their pair.
 
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