Phoneutria was one I wanted..only few places had them historically in uk, and not on display in most
Species you hate to see in zoos
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AmbikaFan
Well-Known Member
It's not that they're necessarily boring for me, rather that the opportunity to show displacement and habitat loss right here is being lost. I live in the suburbs of New York City, and the gradual addition of homes to the side of a mountain has brought deer and bear into our daily lives. Not a day goes by that I don't see at least one group of deer in someone's front yard, at least six new deer lying dead on the highway, and more:frequent
black bear, dead and alive. I've stood face to face from one standing tall across a full trash can. Showing habitat loss here will make it's seriousness worldwide much more compelling. No longer can someone say, "Ah, that's just happening far away. It'll never really affect my life."
TLD, if this bounty excited you, there's no admission ticket needed!
black bear, dead and alive. I've stood face to face from one standing tall across a full trash can. Showing habitat loss here will make it's seriousness worldwide much more compelling. No longer can someone say, "Ah, that's just happening far away. It'll never really affect my life."
TLD, if this bounty excited you, there's no admission ticket needed!
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Not too difficult to get, and relatively cheap, too.
.:www.schaben-spinnen.de - Jörg Bernhardt :. Shop
Believe it or not I consider this to be among the most boring species to see of all time - I see them in the wild every day and they are still common in zoos!Important correction - multiple plain old White-Tailed Deerand just remember, there are US native species you had to cross the pond to see for the first time!
Batto..zoos like that particular one I was working with didnt tend to use private suppliers.
Not in the zoo world my friend..tends to be captive bred from other zoos..and as the post explained many zoos you work in will find a more cheap and easier alternative..e.g. lactrodectus with free anti venom
I think trying to teach Batto about venomous species in zoos is a bit like selling coal to Newcastle
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I think trying to teach Batto about venomous species in zoos is a bit like selling coal to Newcastle
Probably more chance of selling coal in Newcastle
No need to be patronizing. Most zoos (even the major ones) still obtain the majority of their reptiles, amphibians, invertebrates and fish, in particular marine species, from commercial suppliers and at best from private breeders. There are a few exceptions, like easily bred species such as Amphiprion ocellaris or species like Neurergus kaiseri in official zoo breeding programs, and there are a few dedicated zookeepers / curators who might bring in offspring from their private breeding stock. Some zoos even manage to breed rather tricky species on a regular base (like the aquarium at Zoo Berlin & jellyfish). But where do you think the butterflies for the popular butterfly gardens, mudskippers, ant colonies, Hadogenes scorpions, African bullfrogs / cane toads, the whitish salties at Stuttgart / Eskilstrup (...) or the Bitis parviocula zoo specimens (as a recent example) come from? Not captive-bred from zoos, I can tell you that. Some zoos & aquaria might pretend that they breed all the animals they display themselves, and a few might actually do, but you should know better than to take me and others here for ignorant, starry-eyed fools.
@TeaLovingDave and @zoogiraffe
No need to be patronizing. Most zoos (even the major ones) still obtain the majority of their reptiles, amphibians, invertebrates and fish, in particular marine species, from commercial suppliers and at best from private breeders. There are a few exceptions, like easily bred species such as Amphiprion ocellaris or species like Neurergus kaiseri in official zoo breeding programs, and there are a few dedicated zookeepers / curators who might bring in offspring from their private breeding stock. Some zoos even manage to breed rather tricky species on a regular base (like the aquarium at Zoo Berlin & jellyfish). But where do you think the butterflies for the popular butterfly gardens, mudskippers, ant colonies, Hadogenes scorpions, African bullfrogs / cane toads, the whitish salties at Stuttgart / Eskilstrup (...) or the Bitis parviocula zoo specimens (as a recent example) come from? Not captive-bred from zoos, I can tell you that. Some zoos & aquaria might pretend that they breed all the animals they display themselves, and a few might actually do, but you should know better than to take me and others here for ignorant, starry-eyed fools.
@TeaLovingDave and @zoogiraffe
There is a world of difference between private keeping and zoo keeping..I know private keepers that have kept mambas when they were 18..a zoo would still start them on milk snakes..
I have been on all end s of the scale from highly strict professional collections to some that would happily have a volunteer walk around enclosures unattended
Some collections I.e. a small non affiliates butterfly farm might get a venomous spider from a private supplier..but a biaza zoo with more rules than a british shooting range wouldn't..zoos share with zoos..its about swapping and sharing relations, and sharing knowledge..
In the zoo environment it is risk assessment after risk assessment..and I see plenty of suppliers selling inverts which can be a risk to clueless people.
You didnt come across starry eyed, nor do I think non professional people on here are as such. In fact I see people who spend a lot of time talking to keepers to get the info and read professional published papers.
And chicks for feeding snakes and a postman butterfly are a WORLD of difference to a highly toxic spider, with probably v little anti venom in the country, aside from one of the finest institutions in the world..the Liverpool school of tropical medicine venomous research..
Then theres the risk of unused and probably poor quality supplier, cost of spider, training for keepers on species, new security protocol and risk assessment. .
I think the other guy who commented and my fellow tea drinking brit would agree the subject is wrapped up.
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It might be beneficial to the conversation for you to know that @Batto owns a public zoo that specializes in venomous species, and therefore is very well educated on protocols and the potential risks of keeping/working with such species...
~Thylo
Yes.. places very in different countries, im speaking of uk collections, and very different when attached to certain professional bodies like biaza in the uk. I only knew of one instance where a number of species were from a non zoo source...from a wild collector that was affiliated with our invertebrate curator at one very well known and old collection..a selection from Arizona..lactrodectus, few scorpion species and vinegaroons...back in the day uk zoos used to use wild collectors and sellers..v different now..we were very hesitant to even take exotic species that were found accidentally in luggage..I.e. huntsmen spiders from Asia on one occasion..
Thanks @Thylo for the clarification.
Now to you @James w :
Your assumptions about me are so far from the truth that I can't even take the hardly veiled insult seriously. Let's clarify some things before you call for a premature wrap-up: I'm the founder of an exhibition / privately owned zoo called "Welt der Gifte" (World of Toxins), which deals with everything toxic, including animals, fungi, plants etc. For this very purpose, I've trained in various international institutions and obtained all necessary local permits. And I'm currently in the progress to become the first legal venomous snake owner in the whole federal state I'm living in, which is, given the requirements, quite a task. I don't do this for cheap thrills or to elevate my status among my peers, but for the sake of public education, including training firemen, the police, animal rescue organisations and local military units in the safe handling of venomous species. I know my way around venomous and poisonous species both privately and professionally, I don't take any unnecessary risks and I don't need to downplay others to elevate myself. Nor do I free-handle venomous snakes. I take this project of mine very seriously and do not appreciate people, who know nothing about it and myself, to make wrong(ful) assumptions. Since you've mentioned Liverpool's Herpetarium: I'm glad to be able to consider Rob Harrison and Paul Rowley an important part of my professional network regarding venomous snakes.
I'm well aware of the issues connected with the husbandry of venomous species in zoos - to the point that I can inform you that even Latrodectus species are no longer kept in most continental European zoos due to heightened security protocols. I mentioned the German seller of Phoneutra fera because I thought you might be interested to acquire one and wanted to do you a favour.
You failed to acknowledge the truth of the point I made: that a great number of the species in zoos that are not part of the classic zoo species (i.e. charismatic megafauna, meerkats etc.) is still all too often purchased from commercial providers or private breeders, zoo trading or not. Even in the UK, I somehow doubt that BIAZA zoos exchange guppys or other common commercial species with one another.
Now to you @James w :
Your assumptions about me are so far from the truth that I can't even take the hardly veiled insult seriously. Let's clarify some things before you call for a premature wrap-up: I'm the founder of an exhibition / privately owned zoo called "Welt der Gifte" (World of Toxins), which deals with everything toxic, including animals, fungi, plants etc. For this very purpose, I've trained in various international institutions and obtained all necessary local permits. And I'm currently in the progress to become the first legal venomous snake owner in the whole federal state I'm living in, which is, given the requirements, quite a task. I don't do this for cheap thrills or to elevate my status among my peers, but for the sake of public education, including training firemen, the police, animal rescue organisations and local military units in the safe handling of venomous species. I know my way around venomous and poisonous species both privately and professionally, I don't take any unnecessary risks and I don't need to downplay others to elevate myself. Nor do I free-handle venomous snakes. I take this project of mine very seriously and do not appreciate people, who know nothing about it and myself, to make wrong(ful) assumptions. Since you've mentioned Liverpool's Herpetarium: I'm glad to be able to consider Rob Harrison and Paul Rowley an important part of my professional network regarding venomous snakes.
I'm well aware of the issues connected with the husbandry of venomous species in zoos - to the point that I can inform you that even Latrodectus species are no longer kept in most continental European zoos due to heightened security protocols. I mentioned the German seller of Phoneutra fera because I thought you might be interested to acquire one and wanted to do you a favour.
You failed to acknowledge the truth of the point I made: that a great number of the species in zoos that are not part of the classic zoo species (i.e. charismatic megafauna, meerkats etc.) is still all too often purchased from commercial providers or private breeders, zoo trading or not. Even in the UK, I somehow doubt that BIAZA zoos exchange guppys or other common commercial species with one another.
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Meerkats are very trendy now, but I understand what you are saying lol...I used to work with them. Pretty easy, people love them thanks to disney and countless programs...in the UK there are constant annoying adverts with talking meerkats..
What would you prefer as alternative?..another mongoose species or completely different?
i just, see them everywhere these days, i would love to see more variety of the mongoose family, ive seen yellow mongoose as much a si have seen meerkats be truthful, i love banded mongooses, would love to see a slender mongooses, as they come in such variety of fur colours another fave is a white tailed mongoose, black mongoose, just enough with the meerkats please and ASCO as well, give me a hairy nosed otter or even a spotted neck otter, LOL i might be asking for too much?
Lol..we are very similar..working in collections, despite understanding why and what they display, you
Still get annoyed with dull things.
Good example..I walked passed gorillas every morning from the insect house to hippos and seals ( weird I know)..and I ignored the new baby gorilla..I looked at the wood ducks..had a picture of one as a kid, loved them and didnt see one till years later..
I saw coypus in a few zoos. We had them as an invasive species for years in the U.K.. wrecked river backs but they were cool..that would replace mongooses as a social small display.
Difference between zoo visitor and enthusiasts..I barely looked at a giant panda in berlin..spent 20 mins trying to see a vampire bat. Sure you have read of them, but berlins sister zoos are great for weird and obscure..
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LOL i know what you mean, i want to see something different but its hard to see them now these days, i can walk past elephants, giraffes, rhinos, lemurs etc, etc i remember I looked in an aviary it had white-winged ducks but had a gorgeous mandarin drake which i enjoyed more seeing than anything else!
We have them in a river near village I live I in England..not native of course..introduced..v beautiful..love the pheasants too..quetzal is the one id like to see..
Can go other way lol..I had a dutch zoo keeper I worked with translate tier park guide book for me before berlin tour..took family member along on trip..my mum notices silly things..surrounded by species will never see in uk zoos..and I dreamed of working with..,3 types hyenas, polar bears, wolverines ( only one uk zoo at time of visit)...and see keeps pointing out a sparrow lol..
Harpy eagles were an unexpected shock..seriously undervalued though with exhibit..in some zoos would be key species to promote..where do you call home?
i like in england as well herefordshire is where i live
Indian Peafowl. It's obvious that they're commonly kept because they're very photogenic and therefore give the illusion of being rare. It's not fun knowing that they're even kept in very basic zoos around the world.
Farm animals, except for long-tailed chicken breeds (but I'm pretty sure that not even Japanese zoos hold these breeds often). If a proper zoo must have farm animals, then they should be kept in a single area that is intentionally farm-themed. So, I'm obviously glad that Wellington Zoo didn't continue keeping pigs very close to the zoo entrance after the peccaries died, and replaced the pigs with capybaras after a relatively short time. I'm not happy with domestic goats still being kept near the African hoofstock, though.
Farm animals, except for long-tailed chicken breeds (but I'm pretty sure that not even Japanese zoos hold these breeds often). If a proper zoo must have farm animals, then they should be kept in a single area that is intentionally farm-themed. So, I'm obviously glad that Wellington Zoo didn't continue keeping pigs very close to the zoo entrance after the peccaries died, and replaced the pigs with capybaras after a relatively short time. I'm not happy with domestic goats still being kept near the African hoofstock, though.