Speculative Zoo Design and Planning forum

Great Argus said:
Pretty straightforward, things like references you use on a regular basis, how you determine the realism, sharing some process in how you make maps and figure out zoo design. Just things you've found helpful and might help others in designing their fantasy zoos. How much you contribute would be entirely up to you, I just wanted to extend that to you since you do some great work on your ideas. :)
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Thank you for your nice comment.

I can definitely do the things you mentioned, please let me know if and when you start said thread and I will contribute with some of the things that I regularly do or that I find useful.
 
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LionTamarin said:
I mean, I just wish they didn't close down the Species List Ideas thread by @ChunkyMunky pengopus. That really comes in handy for people who are struggling with species lists.
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Some advice if you want it: there are more ways to go about designing a spec zoo than looking through species lists - better ways, I'd argue. Starting out with a concept and rough draft of what kind of zoo you want and what types of animals you'd like featured in it will take you a lot of the way in choosing specific species.

That being said, I would think both Zootierliste and the numerous species lists from American facilities on the forum will be better guides for you than people simply imagining species lists for zoos and then sharing them; both of these options give you a more realistic and functional picture of what is around and what seems to mostly work.
 
LionTamarin said:
I mean, I just wish they didn't close down the Species List Ideas thread by @ChunkyMunky pengopus. That really comes in handy for people who are struggling with species lists.
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We explicitly do not want SpecZoo threads to merely comprise lists of species comprising little-to-no thought or effort, per the rules set out in the initial posts of this thread; as such approaching the issue of how to start a speculative zoo thread by viewing species-lists as the first and foremost factor isn't going to be helpful.
 
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I'm kinda sad that it got closed, and the literal dream zoo thread is honestly one of my favorites. Too bad it doesn't meet the criteria though.
 
Would it be acceptable for me to post a design and a species list, then to cut the full discussion of it into a few parts/posts to be submitted at different times, but within a somewhat narrow time frame?

I am working on something that is rather large and I'm not sure whether I can get a massive post with the full discussion done in one sitting.
 
KevinB said:
Would it be acceptable for me to post a design and a species list, then to cut the full discussion of it into a few parts/posts to be submitted at different times, but within a somewhat narrow time frame?

I am working on something that is rather large and I'm not sure whether I can get a massive post with the full discussion done in one sitting.
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As long as there is actual content not just a "I'm gunna do this" and your posts otherwise meet the criteria we've specified, you'll be fine.
 
Simon Hampel said:
As long as there is actual content not just a "I'm gunna do this" and your posts otherwise meet the criteria we've specified, you'll be fine.
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For the most part I will be doing the same as I did before, but just splitting the large posts into different smaller posts. If I understand things well, that should be okay.

Thank you for your answer.
 
Would it be allowed to make some sorts of polls about some of the zoo's arrangement? I'm currently working on a project and I already have my species list, but I'm deciding which way I want to showcase the animals; I'm asking this because as much as it is a problem of mine I also wanna make something enjoyable for the readers and incorporate a bit of "fan service"
 
Mickey said:
Would it be allowed to make some sorts of polls about some of the zoo's arrangement? I'm currently working on a project and I already have my species list, but I'm deciding which way I want to showcase the animals; I'm asking this because as much as it is a problem of mine I also wanna make something enjoyable for the readers and incorporate a bit of "fan service"
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You can only have one poll per thread, and you should not be creating more than one thread to discuss your zoo.

So while I don't have a problem with polls in this forum as such - the fact that you'll only be able to post one, which may not be very useful for helping you design your zoo.

You also need to be careful that you don't cross the line into your zoo discussion thread becoming an interactive game - which is strictly against the rules.
 
Simon Hampel said:
You can only have one poll per thread, and you should not be creating more than one thread to discuss your zoo.

So while I don't have a problem with polls in this forum as such - the fact that you'll only be able to post one, which may not be very useful for helping you design your zoo.

You also need to be careful that you don't cross the line into your zoo discussion thread becoming an interactive game - which is strictly against the rules.
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The poll I meant to do was only one anyway so that rule wouldn't be violated, but I think I'll just have to make my decisions alone as even if I create a poll and asked for people's opinion it'd take me a while before I get everything ready for showcase and the thread may get closed before I can even post, so no polls as for now.

Thank you for responding
 
Is the inclusion of species never before kept in captivity or which captivity attempt went wrong considered fantasy?
Like, for absurd, let's say I design a zoo with a whale in it (not killer whale, just any other "pure" whale): of course the habitat would be huge, very much optimistic and even the whole habitat complex itself would be described, because I can't just throw it there because of a weak to non-existent reason.
Before you say anything, remember SeaWorld rescued a grey whale (it was a youngling yes, but if a zoo could afford all the expenses it would be possible to keep probably until its death).
Another case that comes to mind are Mountain Gorillas: they have been kept in captivity, the zoos just couldn't meet their needs, so again, what if in the speculative zoo somehow the zoo can meet their needs?

What I'm asking basically is, are we allowed to "experiment" new holding strategies for animals that never met captivity or that did but their holders failed to keep? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch than displaying extinct animals...
 
Mickey said:
Is the inclusion of species never before kept in captivity or which captivity attempt went wrong considered fantasy?
Like, for absurd, let's say I design a zoo with a whale in it (not killer whale, just any other "pure" whale): of course the habitat would be huge, very much optimistic and even the whole habitat complex itself would be described, because I can't just throw it there because of a weak to non-existent reason.
Before you say anything, remember SeaWorld rescued a grey whale (it was a youngling yes, but if a zoo could afford all the expenses it would be possible to keep probably until its death).
Another case that comes to mind are Mountain Gorillas: they have been kept in captivity, the zoos just couldn't meet their needs, so again, what if in the speculative zoo somehow the zoo can meet their needs?

What I'm asking basically is, are we allowed to "experiment" new holding strategies for animals that never met captivity or that did but their holders failed to keep? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch than displaying extinct animals...
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Hello,
It would be very difficult to keep true whales for a long time, not to mention breeding : very huge tanks would be necessary.
I can go to the same conclusion with the Sperm Whales and some other Cetaceans (Narwhals...).

There isn't the same problem with the Mountain Gorillas ; their husbandry wouldn't be extremely difficult, I presume (like for the more common Lowland Gorillas). The main difficulty is mainly linked to the low numbers of this species ; and as their protection in situ remains efficient, imports of captive animals aren't needed. I add that capturing of wild apes is notoriously deadly (and not sustainable) for a large proportion of animals ; maybe it would be feasible with orphaned animals maintained in wildlife refuges, if they exist in the range of Mountain Gorillas.
 
Mickey said:
Is the inclusion of species never before kept in captivity or which captivity attempt went wrong considered fantasy?
Like, for absurd, let's say I design a zoo with a whale in it (not killer whale, just any other "pure" whale): of course the habitat would be huge, very much optimistic and even the whole habitat complex itself would be described, because I can't just throw it there because of a weak to non-existent reason.
Before you say anything, remember SeaWorld rescued a grey whale (it was a youngling yes, but if a zoo could afford all the expenses it would be possible to keep probably until its death).
Another case that comes to mind are Mountain Gorillas: they have been kept in captivity, the zoos just couldn't meet their needs, so again, what if in the speculative zoo somehow the zoo can meet their needs?

What I'm asking basically is, are we allowed to "experiment" new holding strategies for animals that never met captivity or that did but their holders failed to keep? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch than displaying extinct animals...
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I personally believe I may start a zoo plan thread, and I’d definitely like to make a paleo zoo thread.
 
Haliaeetus said:
Hello,
It would be very difficult to keep true whales for a long time, not to mention breeding : very huge tanks would be necessary.
I can go to the same conclusion with the Sperm Whales and some other Cetaceans (Narwhals...).

There isn't the same problem with the Mountain Gorillas ; their husbandry wouldn't be extremely difficult, I presume (like for the more common Lowland Gorillas). The main difficulty is mainly linked to the low numbers of this species ; and as their protection in situ remains efficient, imports of captive animals aren't needed. I add that capturing of wild apes is notoriously deadly (and not sustainable) for a large proportion of animals ; maybe it would be feasible with orphaned animals maintained in wildlife refuges, if they exist in the range of Mountain Gorillas.
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The reason behind why they're being kept in captivity could fall into the roleplay aspect which is banned in the new speculation forum, so the visitors (the readers) would have to assume that the animals are there for any of the following reasons:
  • Their in-situ habitat faces threats too big to be ignored so all population/some specimens were captured to secure a breeding program;
  • Incest is inevitable if a breeding program isn't established and the in-situ condition don't/can't allow it safely;
  • It's an orphaned specimen;
  • It's a speciment that can no longer live in the wild;
  • It's a specimen which needs rehabilitation before being released back into the wild;
  • It's a confiscated specimen;
  • It's a specimen which is being reintroduced in captivity to establish a population for whatever reason you may find justifying.
 
Mickey said:
The reason behind why they're being kept in captivity could fall into the roleplay aspect which is banned in the new speculation forum, so the visitors (the readers) would have to assume that the animals are there for any of the following reasons:
  • Their in-situ habitat faces threats too big to be ignored so all population/some specimens were captured to secure a breeding program;
  • Incest is inevitable if a breeding program isn't established and the in-situ condition don't/can't allow it safely;
  • It's an orphaned specimen;
  • It's a speciment that can no longer live in the wild;
  • It's a specimen which needs rehabilitation before being released back into the wild;
  • It's a confiscated specimen;
  • It's a specimen which is being reintroduced in captivity to establish a population for whatever reason you may find justifying.
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I think that the reason of their presence in a zoo would be interesting and useful to explain, otherwise it wouldn't have any sense.
For example, having and breeding Sumatran Rhinos or Mountain Gorillas should be interesting, but only in a very special context that must be explained, assuming that these species are virtually absent from all the zoos of the planet nowadays.
I hope no one here can believe that they are easily available in any corner of the world.
 
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Haliaeetus said:
I think that the reason of their presence in a zoo would be interesting to explain, otherwise it wouldn't have any sense.
For example, having and breeding Sumatran Rhinos or Mountain Gorillas should be interesting, but only in a very special context that must be explained, assuming that these species are virtually absent from all the zoos of the planet nowadays.
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Fair, but I'd still wait for Mr. Simon's reply before jumping to a conclusion
 
Having a theoretical discussion about how to keep a specific animal is fine in the speculative forum. Just don't make a game or challenge out of it.

Acceptable thread: "What type of exhibit would be needed to house a whale"

Not acceptable thread: "The whale exhibit design challenge"

I get that this is a fairly subtle distinction - but the key is that I want to see discussion, not just a bunch of people throwing random ideas into a thread.

Mickey said:
Is the inclusion of species never before kept in captivity or which captivity attempt went wrong considered fantasy?
Like, for absurd, let's say I design a zoo with a whale in it (not killer whale, just any other "pure" whale): of course the habitat would be huge, very much optimistic and even the whole habitat complex itself would be described, because I can't just throw it there because of a weak to non-existent reason.
Before you say anything, remember SeaWorld rescued a grey whale (it was a youngling yes, but if a zoo could afford all the expenses it would be possible to keep probably until its death).
Another case that comes to mind are Mountain Gorillas: they have been kept in captivity, the zoos just couldn't meet their needs, so again, what if in the speculative zoo somehow the zoo can meet their needs?

What I'm asking basically is, are we allowed to "experiment" new holding strategies for animals that never met captivity or that did but their holders failed to keep? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch than displaying extinct animals...
Click to expand...

We allow the discussion and speculation about extinct animals - so I don't see why we wouldn't also allow discussion about animals that are not currently kept in captivity or animals which are impractical to keep.

I think these types of "what if" threads are ideal for the speculative zoo design and planning forum.
 
Would writing down in chronological order the things that happened in the history of the zoo to, for example, explain how the facility got in possession of some animals, be considered roleplay or futile or useless for realism purposes?
This of course would not be the entirety of the thread
 
Mickey said:
Would writing down in chronological order the things that happened in the history of the zoo to, for example, explain how the facility got in possession of some animals, be considered roleplay or futile or useless for realism purposes?
This of course would not be the entirety of the thread
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I think it's useful for at least two reasons :
  • to explain the developments, the choices (or the non-choices) of the zoo, in a given context (geographical location, policies...)
  • in a wider chronological approach, il may be interesting to know the evolution of a zoo in the long term ; the old urban zoos (Paris, London, Vienna, Berlin, Antwerpen, to mention only European examples) give very good examples of how a park can evolve (the current Ménagerie du Jardin des Plantes is pretty different from the same zoo in 1820, 1935 or 1980), but it's also the case of any zoo that has a few decades of existence (in France, I can mention Beauval, Doué or La Palmyre).
 
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