Writhedhornbill
Well-Known Member
Did'nt he pair up with a parrot of a differnt species?
SPIX MACAW UPDATE.
- Thread starter Pertinax
- Start date
Yes he did. An Illiger's macaw female(or possibly more than one successive partner) The female Spix they released back into the wild was actually his ORIGINAL mate before it had been captured 8 years previously..... It took them a while to get reacquainted but they seemed to be pairing up nicely, though the other Illger mate was always present too. Then the male Spix seemed to reject the female Spix in favour of the Illiger which was a real problem. They even thought about shooting the Illiger but no decision was made.
Finally the female Spix disappeared. Its believed she flew into some powerlines as a Gaucho(= cowboy) said he had found her body but didn't say so for several weeks after.
Finally the female Spix disappeared. Its believed she flew into some powerlines as a Gaucho(= cowboy) said he had found her body but didn't say so for several weeks after.
its for many of the reasons you stated grant that i'm so pro-keeping-the-population-in-situ..
of course you gotta go with whats working. but what i want to see is a location of spix's original habitat being identified as a "safe" area (those powerlines sound like a problem) and aviaries being set up in that area for breeding and eventual release. having the captive birds home exact same location as their release site probably offers a host of advantages, including potential recapture if things are not working and being raised on their native (wild) diet. even the ability to be able to return home for food if need be must be a bonus. i'm no expert, but imagine the species will naturally disperse radially from this breeding centre/release site....
of course you gotta go with whats working. but what i want to see is a location of spix's original habitat being identified as a "safe" area (those powerlines sound like a problem) and aviaries being set up in that area for breeding and eventual release. having the captive birds home exact same location as their release site probably offers a host of advantages, including potential recapture if things are not working and being raised on their native (wild) diet. even the ability to be able to return home for food if need be must be a bonus. i'm no expert, but imagine the species will naturally disperse radially from this breeding centre/release site....
As far as I know, Patrick, the area already purchased by the Spix people for eventual reintroduction is the same area where the last wild bird lived- a farm adjacent to the 'Melancia Creek' . It is just about the only bit of relatively typical Spix habitat left- it has those mature Cariba(?)trees which they feed on, growing along a semi- dry river bed. I believe there's only one other smaller section of habitat somewhere nearby.
I guess the Powerlines are a real danger- especially to newly released and inexperienced birds- they probably can get around this by having markers of some sort on them to make them visible to flying birds- I believe they did that already but(typicallly) they weren't on that section that the female Spix flew into....
Hopefully there'll be news in future of the construction of proper release aviaries etc, I know they did a trial release some years back of captive bred Illiger's macaws in exactly that area (probably using the same aviary the Spix were held in) and exactly along the lines you describe- the birds returning for food etc initially and gradually ranging further away. It did work, apart from one or two that died early on.
With Spix I still feel its quite a long way of. What do you think is the minimum number of captive birds they need to reach as security? Getting ahead of the situation rather but how many do you think they should try eventually for a first release? I really think they are going to be able to pull this species 'back from the brink' now. The darkest days were when there were only about thirty birds, all with private breeders, no cooperation, lots of secrecy and no aim of reintroduction at all. I hope that's all long past now.
I guess the Powerlines are a real danger- especially to newly released and inexperienced birds- they probably can get around this by having markers of some sort on them to make them visible to flying birds- I believe they did that already but(typicallly) they weren't on that section that the female Spix flew into....
Hopefully there'll be news in future of the construction of proper release aviaries etc, I know they did a trial release some years back of captive bred Illiger's macaws in exactly that area (probably using the same aviary the Spix were held in) and exactly along the lines you describe- the birds returning for food etc initially and gradually ranging further away. It did work, apart from one or two that died early on.
With Spix I still feel its quite a long way of. What do you think is the minimum number of captive birds they need to reach as security? Getting ahead of the situation rather but how many do you think they should try eventually for a first release? I really think they are going to be able to pull this species 'back from the brink' now. The darkest days were when there were only about thirty birds, all with private breeders, no cooperation, lots of secrecy and no aim of reintroduction at all. I hope that's all long past now.
agreed it certainly sounds as if the situation is MUCH improved since the "dark ages" you spoke of.
how many before reintroduction? thats a good question but i probably wouldn't begin to consider it until there was at least two decent-sized captive populations of birds in seperate locations (in case of desease outbreak etc..).
i would say i would aim for roughly 200 birds before you start risking sending animals into the wild, and at that stage i would release only genetically well-represented birds.
if the reintroduced population begins to breed in the wild, then i would begin to split the priority between enlarging still the captive population and continuing reintroductions until both bopulations are roughly 1000...
would that make sense? i'm just guessing..
how many before reintroduction? thats a good question but i probably wouldn't begin to consider it until there was at least two decent-sized captive populations of birds in seperate locations (in case of desease outbreak etc..).
i would say i would aim for roughly 200 birds before you start risking sending animals into the wild, and at that stage i would release only genetically well-represented birds.
if the reintroduced population begins to breed in the wild, then i would begin to split the priority between enlarging still the captive population and continuing reintroductions until both bopulations are roughly 1000...
would that make sense? i'm just guessing..
Reintroduction when?
I guess a figure of 100-120 birds is what we should aim for. The same number as was originally established for the Californian Condor. I think Spix's macaws are slow maturing birds and do not start to breed before a certain age. Also, I think the population as you said should be divided between two sub-groups in separate locations.
For now, Al Wabra Foundation is by far the most serious contender in breeding Spix's for years and it looks the population is now growing exponentially and breeding success is more evenly balanced between individual founder birds. All imperative in a successful breed and release project. Also, Al Wabra Foundation seems very serious about macaw breeding in general, also housing Illiger's and all.
Perhaps a second population can be started in Brazil with local birds with breeding options along the lines of the Al Wabra Foundation breeding group.
I guess a figure of 100-120 birds is what we should aim for. The same number as was originally established for the Californian Condor. I think Spix's macaws are slow maturing birds and do not start to breed before a certain age. Also, I think the population as you said should be divided between two sub-groups in separate locations.
For now, Al Wabra Foundation is by far the most serious contender in breeding Spix's for years and it looks the population is now growing exponentially and breeding success is more evenly balanced between individual founder birds. All imperative in a successful breed and release project. Also, Al Wabra Foundation seems very serious about macaw breeding in general, also housing Illiger's and all.
Perhaps a second population can be started in Brazil with local birds with breeding options along the lines of the Al Wabra Foundation breeding group.
That's exactly the number I was thinking of too. As Jelle says, the Al Wabra Foundation(the Sheik) now has the potential to produce birds on a larger scale than was previously possible, so it may not be so long before they reach the magic figure of 100 birds. But the other breeders have far fewer pairs between them so can't match this. But perhaps by the time a proper reintroduction schedule is planned, a release aviary etc is prepared, the population may have increased that much- lets keep hoping.
It will all depend on the sheikh. Do you think he would be willing to just hand over these valuable birds to be released in another country? The impression I got from reading the book about the last spix was that private owners treat their birds like status symbols. Expecting the sheikh to give up some birds would be like expecting an art collector giving up a master piece to a public gallery. I think that he would never even think of releasing them. I hope I am wrong.
Boof,
The Al Wabra Foundation is a non profit organisation dedicated to captive-breeding of endangered species. It is a one of a kind institution in Qatar. Whereas we are still a while off from a world "herd" of Spix's macaws, the Al Wabra Foundation goes along way to offering that promise.
The Al Wabra Foundation is a non profit organisation dedicated to captive-breeding of endangered species. It is a one of a kind institution in Qatar. Whereas we are still a while off from a world "herd" of Spix's macaws, the Al Wabra Foundation goes along way to offering that promise.
Boof- its like I said in a previous post, I think the days of secretive owners and breeders are finally past. The Al Wabra research station has managed to accumulate many(nearly all in fact) of the birds previously owned by the private breeders in both Switzerland and the Phillipines- so those mentioned in the Spix book actually no longer have the birds anymore and those chapters are now completely out of date...
I'll agree that the majority of the birds ARE still in private ownership, but I think Al Wabra and the other owner/breeders are now breeding the birds with the express puropse of reintroducing them, when in sufficient numbers, into the wild. They may well be able to achieve what the 'Spix Macaw Recovery Project' was never able to do, viz- get everyone working together.
I'll agree that the majority of the birds ARE still in private ownership, but I think Al Wabra and the other owner/breeders are now breeding the birds with the express puropse of reintroducing them, when in sufficient numbers, into the wild. They may well be able to achieve what the 'Spix Macaw Recovery Project' was never able to do, viz- get everyone working together.
Would that there were enough of them that you could be trampled to death!
Seriously, I guess perhaps the Al Wabra Centre will eventually do for Spix Macaw what Phoenix zoo did for the Arabian Oryx, or the Dukes of Bedford did for Pere David's Deer at Woburn- be majorly responsible for saving the species, that is.
Seriously, I guess perhaps the Al Wabra Centre will eventually do for Spix Macaw what Phoenix zoo did for the Arabian Oryx, or the Dukes of Bedford did for Pere David's Deer at Woburn- be majorly responsible for saving the species, that is.
nicholas
Well-Known Member
Grant, the days of secretive breeding and ownership is not over. Recently some news of Lears macaws with a swiss breeder surficed.
About the spix's, one thing I would like to know more about is how they are going to handle the problem with the limited gene pool? All the birds at Al Wabra come from de Dios, and I believe these brids all come from one pair. A pair that themselvs are siblings. I could be misstaken though.
About the spix's, one thing I would like to know more about is how they are going to handle the problem with the limited gene pool? All the birds at Al Wabra come from de Dios, and I believe these brids all come from one pair. A pair that themselvs are siblings. I could be misstaken though.
Okay, perhaps those days aren't entirely over but I do think things have improved a lot. (I have to admit I don't know if there are any Spix remaining in Switzerland now or how many were moved to Germany.) The situation with Lears is similar but perhaps more obscure still? Loro Parc bred a Lear's recently, it as hatched and raised by a pair of Greenwings. Its the first publisiced breeding for a long ime.
Regarding inbreeding of Spix- they certainly come from a very limited gene pool but it remains to be seen if this proves harmful or not. All the birds which de Dios bred I think came from two pairs; first pair from Brazil(probably related in some way) and second pair which were their offspring(full siblings)
So yes, the Al Wabra birds are all extremely closely related.
The Amazons stolen from Chester were Lilacine (Ecuadorian) Amazons. They were in an offshow area close to the bridal path. Nothing is kept there any more.
Perhaps Chester Zoo doesn't want any Spix Macaws. They have just begun a breeding programme for Blue-headed Macaws, two young males arrived last year from Antwerp. There is a limit to the number of birds the parrot section can house. The house only cost £250,000, and they had to argue to get that much. By contrast the new Tsavo Cafeteria cost £2,000,000.
Perhaps Chester Zoo doesn't want any Spix Macaws. They have just begun a breeding programme for Blue-headed Macaws, two young males arrived last year from Antwerp. There is a limit to the number of birds the parrot section can house. The house only cost £250,000, and they had to argue to get that much. By contrast the new Tsavo Cafeteria cost £2,000,000.
That's a bit ironic, isn't it?
Spix are so rare, and to certain people, so valuable I don't think a zoo like Chester could exhibit them publicly at present. Loro Parc in Tenerife does not have theirs on show to the public- I believe they are held in an offshow maximum security area. no doubt once they have a reasonable number they might risk placing a pair on public display.
Actually, not all the Al Wabra birds come from de Dios. They have got ALL of the de Dios birds,that's true, but also they've had some from the Swiss breeder(was it Meisser?) who sold(?) all his birds. So Al Wabra now have birds from two different genetic sources. Again, I don't know just how unrelated the founders of these two groups really are, and whether they will try to pair up birds from the two different groups- I guess so.