Sudan the Northern White Rhino's Health

lintworm said:
I think that is quite unfair, the zoo has collected the remaining NWR in Europe and has bred them several times. Where should they have gone according to you? Dvur Kralove is one of the most prolific breeders of Black rhino worldwide, so husbandrywise they are not stupid. More blame would go to San Diego who clung on to their one pair....
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Africa. sooner.
I'll admit, I think 90% of other zoos in the same scenario would probably have made the same mistake, but thats kind of my point. Yes I'm disappointed that people could not preserve them in the wild. But i'm also disappointed that in this case "the zoo" failed at providing an insurance population: which is really their only valid reason for existence. I think the directors of Dvur Kralove should have accepted much, much earlier that their success' were far too small and far between to turn the tide, and accepted that they were not giving the animals the best chance of survival. Dvur Kralove were the custodians of these priceless animals. Do you really think they did EVERYTHING they could? I don't.
 
FunkyGibbon said:
Except for entertainment, education, research, economic benefit, public health and so on....
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I'd like to see education and research a lot higher up that list than entertainment, but otherwise, I concur.
It is always going to be more cost effective and efficient to conserve populations of megafauna like rhinos in-situ rather than ex-situ. Simply viewing these animals as an insurance population really glosses over so many of the benefits they can provide.
 
Whose responsibility would it be to pay the $9 million required for them to attempt a programme of artificial insemination, the conservancy themselves or another body?
 
I remember seeing a northern white rhino at San Diego when I was in middle school and rembering how upset I was when I heard that there are less than 5 left in the world. It is extremely depressing that Sudan is sick and I only hope the best for the species.
 
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Interview with Director of Dvur Kralove Zoo, about the future of Northern Whites (in Czech): Ohrožený druh nosorožce má naději na záchranu. Znovu ho rozmnožíme, říká ředitel dvorské zoo | Aktuálně.cz

Main points: They have sperm from 3 males (My guess is Sudan, Suni and Angafilu as they were the 3 last males remaining) and in labs in San Diego they managed to get stem cells(?) from females Fatu and Nabiré. Thus they are confident that they´ll be able to create a healthy embryo.
 
HOMIN96 said:
Interview with Director of Dvur Kralove Zoo, about the future of Northern Whites (in Czech): Ohrožený druh nosorožce má naději na záchranu. Znovu ho rozmnožíme, říká ředitel dvorské zoo | Aktuálně.cz

Main points: They have sperm from 3 males (My guess is Sudan, Suni and Angafilu as they were the 3 last males remaining) and in labs in San Diego they managed to get stem cells(?) from females Fatu and Nabiré. Thus they are confident that they´ll be able to create a healthy embryo.
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Hopefully that confidence can translate into reality.
 
Chlidonias said:
The Northern White Rhino was split as a full species in 2010, based on morphology and genetics. A separation date between the two white rhinos (Southern and Northern) was estimated at a million years using the genetic results. It's not a "misconception" that Northern White Rhinos are a species instead of a subspecies, it is a difference in taxonomic opinion.
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Sometimes I can't help but wonder if here in the 21st century we are mistaking genetic or morphological distinction in populations for distinct taxa when in fact they are simply inbred isolated relicts of what was once a large, continuous and diverse population of a given species.
 
toothlessjaws said:
Sometimes I can't help but wonder if here in the 21st century we are mistaking genetic or morphological distinction in populations for distinct taxa when in fact they are simply inbred isolated relicts of what was once a large, continuous and diverse population of a given species.
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Certainly NWR's and SWR's are virtually identical in appearance- at London Zoo they used to have a pair consisting of one of each-physically indistiguishable from memory.
 
toothlessjaws said:
Sometimes I can't help but wonder if here in the 21st century we are mistaking genetic or morphological distinction in populations for distinct taxa when in fact they are simply inbred isolated relicts of what was once a large, continuous and diverse population of a given species.
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But white rhino have been separated for over a million years and you can't call the northern original distribution a relic when it spanned from the CAR to Uganda. So the reasoning seems invalid with regards to NWR.
 
toothlessjaws said:
Sometimes I can't help but wonder if here in the 21st century we are mistaking genetic or morphological distinction in populations for distinct taxa when in fact they are simply inbred isolated relicts of what was once a large, continuous and diverse population of a given species.
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lintworm said:
But white rhino have been separated for over a million years and you can't call the northern original distribution a relic when it spanned from the CAR to Uganda. So the reasoning seems invalid with regards to NWR.
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For comparison, the last common ancestor of the Jungle Cat and Sand Cat dates back to only slightly longer ago than the last common ancestor of the two extant members of Ceratotherium - something like 1.2 mya.

You'd be hard-pushed to call those two species relict populations of a single taxon :p
 
I just did some googling and I have to concede - I had zero idea that white rhinoceros even historically had such divided populations! Forgive my ignorance: it stems from the fact that there are so many southern whites in East Africa now (contextually, speaking), That I had never realised so many of those, such as all those in Kenya, are actually not even analogues for the northerns, but just introduced populations of a species not naturally even found there.

So there is no doubt that regardless of precise classification (species or subspecies) these taxa would have undoubtably naturally had a distinction.

That said, $10 to anyone who cant visually ID the difference! I sure can't.
 
toothlessjaws said:
That said, $10 to anyone who cant visually ID the difference! I sure can't.
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I was once told fringed ears was a characteristic of Northerns but it doesn't hold true- many Southerns exhibit that too. As I said, the London 'mixed' pair showed no obvious differences.
 
I always thought, the Northern have larger horns, as all of the NWR I saw on photos (Dvur & San Diego) had remarkable horns. But later, I´ve learnt that this isn´t a confirmed difference at all...
 
May you rest in peace knowing that you were beloved by all who knew you.

Sudan
The Last Male Northern White Rhino
1973 - March 19, 2018​
 
Sort of ironic...just on sunday I was watching The Last Animals documentary by Kate Brooks, whichnwas partly about Northern whites too...(btw. I the possibility occurs, go watch it it's absolutely amazing)
 
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