Chester Zoo sumartran orangutans

If anybody is interested, I'm using a family tree builder to create a geneology report for Henry that will go right down to Moira. I will be needing help with dates and (hopefully) photos. Photos aren't essential, but it would look very good with them hopefully. Can anybody donate photographs of the following orangs that I can use in the report?

Henry
Anne
Oscar
Ramona
Padang
Jambi
Moira
Atjeh
Puan (I have one but I'm unsure of the copyright)

There will be many more to come as I get digging into siblings and their young etc. Hopefully this can be a comprehensive report. Thanks in advance :)
 
another project JR :O)
be careful you don't end up with loads of part finished projects through taking too much on :O)

But finish the Orang one first OK - LoL
 
Javan Rhino said:
Not a problem - I'm doing well at the moment :p
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I want to see this when its finished too.;)

I would think Alan/Gentle Lemur has the best selection of photos. I have ones as far back as Henry and Anne(Oscar's parents) as small newly arrived juveniles at Bristol Zoo but don't ask me where...:(

Have you/will you be contacting Perth for details of all Puluh's siblings etc? I guess it depends on how far your 'branches' extend. Don't forget he has other relatives in Santillana(Spain) and the little male Silvestre at now at Monkeyworld- through his grandmother Anne and also at Amneville France-through Oscar's sister Julitta and her daughter. But they aren't direct relatives.

It is VERY Complex!
 
Pertinax said:
I want to see this when its finished too.;)

I would think Alan/Gentle Lemur has the best selection of photos. I have ones as far back as Henry and Anne(Oscar's parents) as small newly arrived juveniles at Bristol Zoo but don't ask me where...:(

Have you/will you be contacting Perth for details of all Puluh's siblings etc? I guess it depends on how far your 'branches' extend. Don't forget he has other relatives in Santillana(Spain)- through his grandmother Anne and at Amneville France- through Oscar's sister Julitta and her daughter.
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I may be later on, I don't know how far I'm going to take it yet :). So far I have:

Henry
Anne
Oscar
Ramona
Emma
Subis
Padang
Jambi
Budi
Utara
Kirana
Indah
Puluh
Puan
Atjeh
HsingHsing
 
1,0 Atjeh
Studbook-Nr. 976
* ~1955, Sumatra
Perth 31.12.1969
+ 01.09.1996

0,1 Puan
Studbook Nr. 978
* ~1953, Sumatra
Perth 31.12.1968

1,0 Puluh
Studbook Nr. 2130
* 23.09.1987, Perth
Atjeh x Puan
Chester 15.12.1996

______________________________

1,0 Henry
Studbook Nr. 702
* ~1962, Sumatra
Bristol 17.12.1964
+ 23.10.1977

0,1 Ann
Studbook Nr. 703
* ~1962, Sumatra
Bristol 17.12.1964, Santillan 14.12.1994
+ 01.10.1999

1,0 Oscar
Studbook Nr. 1140
* 22.04.1971, Bristol
Henry x Ann
Chester 25.09.1979, Liberec 06.06.1997
+ 03.11.1999

_______________________________________

1,0 Jussup
Studbook Nr. 414
* ~1956, Sumatra
East Berlin 10.07.1960
+ 14.02.1975

0,1 Beatle
Studbook Nr. 680
* ~1961, Sumatra
East Berlin 03.09.1964
+ 10.04.1983

0,1 Ramona
Studbook Nr. 967
* 14.10.1968, East Berlin
Jussup x Beatle
Chester 24.04.1972, Peaugres 21.11.1996
+ 03.03.1997

____________________________________

Henry + Ann = Oscar
Jussup + Beatle = Ramona
Oscar + Ramona = Subis and Emma
Atjeh + Puan = Puluh
Puluh + Emma = Padang
Puluh + Subis = Jambi
Chuji + Jambi = Moira

_______________________________________

1,0 Tuan
Studbook Nr. 538
* ~1950, Sumatra
West Berlin 01.11.1962
+ 09.11.1968

0,1 Babu
Studbook Nr. 511
* ~1952, Sumatra
West Berlin 18.08.1962
+ 15.02.2002

1,0 Sinjo
Studbook Nr. 1007
* 16.03.1969, West Berlin
Tuan x Babu
Hamburg 11.11.1987
+ 18.10.2006

_______________________________________

1,0 Charly
Studbook Nr. 497
* ~1957, Sumatra
Stuttgart 01.07.1962, Frankfurt 08.03.1978

0,1 Djambi
Studbook Nr. 808
* ~1959, Sumatra
Frankfurt 15.05.1966

0,1 Mokko
Studbook Nr. 1944
* 11.11.1983, Frankfurt
Charly x Djambi
Hamburg 25.01.1989

___________________________________________

1,0 Chuij
Studbook Nr. 2765
* 24.03.1996, Hamburg
Sinjo x Mokko
Budapest 13.12.2004

0,1 Jambi
Studbook Nr. 2867
* 23.08.1998, Chester
Puluh x Subis
Budapest 19.03.2007

0,1 Moira
Studbook Nr. ???
* 05.04.2010, Budapest
Chuij x Jambi
 
Javan Rhino said:
Ramona
HsingHsing
Click to expand...

i guess you might need Ramona's parents as she was zooborn too (see above!!).

Male 'HsingHsing' at Perth isn't related to Puluh as he was the replacement for Atjeh (Puluh's father) so he doesn't need a place in your tree.
 
Pertinax said:
i guess you might need Ramona's parents as she was zooborn too (see above!!).

Male 'HsingHsing' at Perth isn't related to Puluh as he was the replacement for Atjeh (Puluh's father) so he doesn't need a place in your tree.
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Thanks, I now have all the orangs mentioned above :)

I imagined HsingHsing would have a place on the family tree as he has fathered at least one of Puluh's half siblings? I may leave his siblings off anyway and remove HsingHsing :)
 
OK - small amount of confusion - just spent a happy hour doing a quick scooch through the 2002 stud book (latest I could find) and in that the details for Ramona are:

Sire = Unknown
Dam = 680 BEATLE

born Berlin TP

?? does anyone have a link to a later studbook?
 
Believe it or don not believe it.... Tierpark Berlin knows which male mated "Beatle"....
 
Pertinax said:
Some of the European Zoos have been breeding Sumatran Orangutans a lot longer than Chester- since the 1950's and 60's and even earlier than that, which is why they have even bigger 'dynasties' and some do have more breeding females also.

Ema and Subis at Chester do seem to be breeding very rapidly with quite short birth intervals- I don't know any reason why that should be. I also don't know if Chester plan to continue breeding from them unabated, I guess it depends on what is recommended by the EEP studbook holders, both for genetic considerations and also for placing any surplus young in other Zoos.

But it would be nice to see(eventually) some relocations of Sumatrans from Europe perhaps, along the lines Perth have now done. Perhaps such are planned eventually, I don't know.
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But given how many wild-born Orangs there are in various rehabilitation centres one wonders whether moving animals from Europe makes much sense at present.

Probably better to maintain a genetically distinctive discrete population for long-term use?
 
BjoernN said:
Believe it or don not believe it.... Tierpark Berlin knows which male mated "Beatle"....
Click to expand...

The 1980 International Studbook lists either 00414S Jussup or 00456S Hans as the father of Ramona, so I'm not so sure they do...presumably they kept them as a 2.1trio, so 'unknown' was probably entered in later listings to reflect that doubt.
 
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Javan Rhino ... you're very welcome to use any of my photos in the gallery to help illustrate your family tree project if you find any you like. From memory (haven't looked at them for ages) I'm not sure they're all labelled .... obviously Puluh and Padang are pretty obvious, but the younger ones are harder to identify - particularly if you only get to Chester irregularly like me. Think there are some of both Emma and Subis but unless you can see their hands I'm not expert enough to identify them. (My avatar is Padang for example).

Have often thought about creating orang family trees myself but unfortunately have very little time to do such a project justice. I can vaguely remember - I think - a website I came across a few years ago which listed loads of orang info, who was related to who etc - but I don't think it exists anymore and I'm pretty sure the last time I looked, it was very out of date. Might have been called something like Orange People perhaps ? Anyway, would love to see something similar set up again in the future - though appreciate that'd be much bigger job than a "simple" family tree concentrating on one zoo.
 
GillP said:
Might have been called something like Orange People perhaps ?
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It was an attempt to list all the Orangutans in the UK zoos but there were big gaps and it wasn't completed- you really need access to studbooks to do it properly.
 
JR .... sorry, I spoke too soon. Have just checked my photos and loads have disappeared (I knew they would, but am a bit baffled by some which remain, seemingly at random, which are over a year old and don't have any comments). Anyway ... I do still have loads of Chester orang pics, so please PM me if you'd like to see them. No obligation obviously !
 
Pertinax said:
It was an attempt to list all the Orangutans in the UK zoos but there were big gaps and it wasn't completed- you really need access to studbooks to do it properly.
Click to expand...

The combined brains of Zoochat would probably do the job nearly as well !
 
GillP said:
Javan Rhino ... you're very welcome to use any of my photos in the gallery to help illustrate your family tree project if you find any you like. From memory (haven't looked at them for ages) I'm not sure they're all labelled .... obviously Puluh and Padang are pretty obvious, but the younger ones are harder to identify - particularly if you only get to Chester irregularly like me. Think there are some of both Emma and Subis but unless you can see their hands I'm not expert enough to identify them. (My avatar is Padang for example).

Have often thought about creating orang family trees myself but unfortunately have very little time to do such a project justice. I can vaguely remember - I think - a website I came across a few years ago which listed loads of orang info, who was related to who etc - but I don't think it exists anymore and I'm pretty sure the last time I looked, it was very out of date. Might have been called something like Orange People perhaps ? Anyway, would love to see something similar set up again in the future - though appreciate that'd be much bigger job than a "simple" family tree concentrating on one zoo.
Click to expand...

Thanks GillP - I have used a photograph of Padang :)

I think all I can add now is siblings, the top generation has all gone back to wild caught individuals and the newest two generations don't have any young I've missed off. Some questions:

Did Henry and Anne have any offspring other than Oscar?
Did any of these have any offspring?
Did Ramona have any other offspring with Oscar (or any others)?
Did any of these have offspring?


EDIT: @GillP - If you have any pictures of Jambi that would be brilliant :)
 
Sorry, Jambi was before I ever went to Chester.

As a bit of an aside, have just been Googling, and found this which features Padang at Prague for anyone interested (ignore cheesy music, and apologies if it's been posted up before). He's such a good looking orang.
 
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