Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens Sumatran rhino returning to LA Zoo

[IanRRobinson]

I can't help but sense an "its all too late anyway" attitude over the whole situation. While the SRT captive program was surely a massive failure overall, it was at least an attempt to do something. After the failure became clear, the efforts made since seem half hearted at best. Considering the huge political and logistical obstacles in the way, I don't really see who or what could turn the tide anymore. I believe secretly, the conservation and zoo community involved has already said goodbye to the Sumatran rhino - they are just too coward to openly admit it - again mostly for financial and political reasons.

I have had the great fortune to see a rather large number of Sumatran rhinos in person between Port Lympne, the US and Sepilok and I was always very moved by these extraordinary animals and their personalities. Keep in mind that this is not just a very rare species, it might very well be the friendliest large wild mammal on earth. It is absolutely sickening to me, that we will likely loose this species, but face it, hope is not in sight - not in the wild and certainly not in captivity. I can not see any coordinated international effort on the horizon - and that is what would be needed to even have a glimpse of hope.

A very heartfelt post, Saro. I agree with you. I was lucky enough to see Torgamba and Meranti at Port Lympne 20+ years ago with my father, and we both agreed that they were absolutely wonderful animals. I'd love to have the chance of seeing them again with my kids.

 

[Dicerorhinus]

The hard truth, IMHO, is if this species is going to survive then we are going to have to learn how to breed it in managed conditions. Whether that's in Europe, N America or SE Asia doesn't really matter, although the expertise is currently in Cincinnati.

It just seems that the surviving wild populations are too small and too scattered to be viable. Even without poaching or habitat loss, I don't see this animal surviving on just in-situ conservation. More animals need to be caught up, and the sooner the better.

But I'm not holding my breath.

Well it's a relief that the opinions of people who can't be bothered to do some basic research aren’t considered when decisions are being made.

The remaining (known) population is consolidated in a few protected areas. The largest of which numbers 60-80 individuals double the current population of Javan Rhino.

Pertinax, things are happening unfortunately politics keep progress slow. I wish I could tell you more. Sorry

 

[Dicerorhinus]

I can't help but sense an "its all too late anyway" attitude over the whole situation. While the SRT captive program was surely a massive failure overall, it was at least an attempt to do something. After the failure became clear, the efforts made since seem half hearted at best. Considering the huge political and logistical obstacles in the way, I don't really see who or what could turn the tide anymore. I believe secretly, the conservation and zoo community involved has already said goodbye to the Sumatran rhino - they are just too coward to openly admit it - again mostly for financial and political reasons.

I have had the great fortune to see a rather large number of Sumatran rhinos in person between Port Lympne, the US and Sepilok and I was always very moved by these extraordinary animals and their personalities. Keep in mind that this is not just a very rare species, it might very well be the friendliest large wild mammal on earth. It is absolutely sickening to me, that we will likely loose this species, but face it, hope is not in sight - not in the wild and certainly not in captivity. I can not see any coordinated international effort on the horizon - and that is what would be needed to even have a glimpse of hope.

The interest is still there as is the money. There has only been one recorded incident of a poached animal in the last 5 years.

Habitat encroachment is the biggest threat right now. The species is for all intents and purposes confined to four locations now. It's a much less daunting prospect to protect four populations than the dozen or so of a decade ago. There are still many devoted people working to save the species both in S.E. Asia and the US.

It's certainly not an easy task but it’s far from hopeless. Again, sorry I can't say more.

 

[Saro]

@Dicerorhinus: One thing is for sure, time is running out quickly. Even if money and interest are still there, it is first and foremost the political situation that makes me pessimistic. I know the situation is quite different in South Africa but considering the efforts put in place by the South Africans to protect their rhinos and the huge number of rhinos lost just this year despite this, are of great concern to me. I also fear that the number of Sumatran rhinos estimated to be left in the wild might be way too optimistic. Remember we don't even know how many Javan rhinos are left at tiny Udjong Kulon. The number of viable breeders (just as it is with last Javan rhinos) is probably extremely low and they might be far apart. Recent logging at Udjong Kulon shows that even world renowned sites are not really safe. The rhino in Borneo will be the next to go and even though it might still not be too late to save them, I don't see who would have the means to do it. It is high time for action not words (there's been plenty of that), only after something really happens, I might change my mind.

 

[Dicerorhinus]

@Dicerorhinus: One thing is for sure, time is running out quickly. Even if money and interest are still there, it is first and foremost the political situation that makes me pessimistic. I know the situation is quite different in South Africa but considering the efforts put in place by the South Africans to protect their rhinos and the huge number of rhinos lost just this year despite this, are of great concern to me. I also fear that the number of Sumatran rhinos estimated to be left in the wild might be way too optimistic. Remember we don't even know how many Javan rhinos are left at tiny Udjong Kulon. The number of viable breeders (just as it is with last Javan rhinos) is probably extremely low and they might be far apart. Recent logging at Udjong Kulon shows that even world renowned sites are not really safe. The rhino in Borneo will be the next to go and even though it might still not be too late to save them, I don't see who would have the means to do it. It is high time for action not words (there's been plenty of that), only after something really happens, I might change my mind.

We do know roughly how many Javan Rhinos are left (and its not near the long touted figure of 50) and have a good idea of how many reproductively viable cows remain. Just because this data isn’t in the public domain doesn’t mean its unknown.
Recent surveys have been conservative hence the rapid decline in official estimates. There are, almost certainly, still animals outside of the four nucleus populations which are not included in the figures.

I really don't think anyone can compare conservation of S.E. Asian rhinos with Southern Whites, the situations are far too different.

 

[john]

If the Sumatran Rhino should have a chance I think 3.3 animals should brought in the USA. Without hesitation.

 

[Moebelle]

I really wish this wasn't happening.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

We do know roughly how many Javan Rhinos are left (and its not near the long touted figure of 50) and have a good idea of how many reproductively viable cows remain. Just because this data isn’t in the public domain doesn’t mean its unknown.
Recent surveys have been conservative hence the rapid decline in official estimates. There are, almost certainly, still animals outside of the four nucleus populations which are not included in the figures.

I really don't think anyone can compare conservation of S.E. Asian rhinos with Southern Whites, the situations are far too different.

Indeed, tis is not.

Worryingly, the no. of Javans is much much lower ... it is a coupla minutes before 12 for the Javans of Ujung.

 

[DavidBrown]

The rhino is now at the LA Zoo (confirmed on their Facebook page), but is not yet on exhibit. The timing of his debut at the zoo, and where his exhibit will be, has not been announced. Between Harapan (hopefully making a public debut) and the new LAIR it could be quite an exciting 2012 at the LA Zoo.

 

[condor]

Worryingly, the no. of Javans is much much lower ... it is a coupla minutes before 12 for the Javans of Ujung.

only a few days ago it was announced that 35 individuals had been captured by hidden cameras in Ujung Kulon. Assuming they follow the norm of automated cameras in rugged jungle environs, it is extremely unlikely they captured all (even 'most' would be unusual).
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/119731/cameras-show-35-rare-rhinos-in-indonesia—official

still a bad outlook and the apparent sex ratio is a serious problem but it doesn't look like this case is lost (yet).

 

[Pertinax]

only a few days ago it was announced that 35 individuals had been captured by hidden cameras in Ujung Kulon. Assuming they follow the norm of automated cameras in rugged jungle environs, it is extremely unlikely they captured all (even 'most' would be unusual).
Cameras show 35 rare rhinos in Indonesia?official | Inquirer News

still a bad outlook and the apparent sex ratio is a serious problem but it doesn't look like this case is lost (yet).

Look in a recent thread in General Forum on this subject. A post there states that the cameras have been in situ longterm and that nearly all individuals there are likely to be, are well known through this photography, and that only 27 animals are known to exist. The number of '35' may therefore be an over estimate.

 

[condor]

Look in a recent thread in General Forum on this subject. A post there states that the cameras have been in situ longterm and that nearly all individuals there are likely to be, are well known through this photography, and that only 27 animals are known to exist. The number of '35' may therefore be an over estimate.

Could you provide a link to the exact discussion? The only I found with relevant information was this and it just says 27 without providing any more information: http://www.zoochat.com/2/rhinos-250380/
(the longer 'WWF confirm Javan rhinoceros is extinct in Vietnam' thread only has posts that say 'less than 50' and '38-44' estimated in Ujung Kulon in 2008.)

35 is not an 'estimate' but the actual number they have photographed and identified, according to the press release. These were photographed over a period of less than a year, from January to October (Cameras show 35 rare rhinos in Indonesia - Channel NewsAsia). A relatively short period in which huge population changes are unlikely in a long-lived species like a rhino. At least unless there suddenly have been a huge surge in rhino poaching in Ujung Kulon and I am aware of no informations that would suggest this. Why anyone would assume they could photograph every single individual, or even close, during such a relatively short period in a rugged forested habitat is unclear to me. It would certainly be a first in the world. 2 relevant quotes from the articles:

'set up infra-red cameras from January to October this year'
'were able to identify at least 35 different rhinos — 22 males and 13 females'

 

[condor]

found it. Was in Off Topic > Wildlife & Nature Conservation section instead of General Forum: http://www.zoochat.com/65/baby-javan-rhinos-photographed-udjon-kulong-252614/

I do have a great amount of respect for the person revealing his doubts there, but as a person with a scientific background I always place published data above unpublished claims (even if there are cases where the latter ends up being right). Should there be fundamental flaws in the press release calculations, I assume it will be dealt with in a later publication. That's how science works, after all. In the Indonesian languaged press release they go into greater detail of age (7 old, 18 adult, 5 young adult, 5 babies): http://www.pikiran-rakyat.com/node/171251

 

[Pertinax]

found it. Was in Off Topic > Wildlife & Nature Conservation section instead of General Forum: In the Indonesian languaged pr...url]http://www.pikiran-rakyat.com/node/171251

Sorry, I gave you the wrong link..

I also queried how they have reached the sex/age ratio breakdown for 35 animals, if there are in fact less than this. The only way I can see this happening is if some animals have been counted more than once, to give a higher number and corresponding sex ratio.

The skewed ratio on favour of males is rather bad news, and presumably is in effect whichever the true exact number is. But either way, it is still below the 'popular' estimate for the last several decades, which has been about 50.

 

[jwer]

This news item states even lower numbers of javan rhino's...

Survey of Rare Javan Rhinos Finds Few Females

Perhaps that was what Diceros was talking about?

 

[Dicerorhinus]

This news item states even lower numbers of javan rhino's...

Survey of Rare Javan Rhinos Finds Few Females

Perhaps that was what Diceros was talking about?

Condor, thank you. I would like to tell you more but unfortunately I can't.

Take a look at the link jwer has provided.

 

[jwer]

Video cameras set up in the eastern half of Ujung Kulon National Park recorded 17 rhinos this year. Just four were female.

Park official Arif Junaedi said Friday the cameras have now been moved to the more remote western half of the park, and that "hopefully many more females remain" there. The results should be known in November.

Mind that it states that this research was conducted in the eastern part only, and that further research into numbers in the rest of the park should be known in november.

Perhaps (hopefully) the latter number of 35 including 5 young would be those results?

 

[Fuzzball]

I think, the best what they could do with all three sumatran rhinos in teh USA is to send them back to indonesia, as they have done it before with Andalas and the last european sumatran rhino. It makes no sense to keep them in the Usa with absoulutly no hope to build a captive population, but there are chances to start a breeding in Indonesia or Malaysia, its not to late for the breeding male at Cincinnati or the two young animals....

I know, sumatran rhinos are very popular animals to all zoolovers, including me, but this species is not kept just for show for zoolovers, they are the last remaning animals of a spectecular failed attempt to create a breeding outside of indonesia...

John Aspinall has recognized that after the loss of the two females and he had done the only right thing, sending Torgamba back to indonesia. They sould do the same with the Us-sumatran rhinos, instead of sending Harapan from one point to another and "hoping" to get one new female-for what ?

 

[IanRRobinson]

I think, the best what they could do with all three sumatran rhinos in teh USA is to send them back to indonesia, as they have done it before with Andalas and the last european sumatran rhino. It makes no sense to keep them in the Usa with absoulutly no hope to build a captive population, but there are chances to start a breeding in Indonesia or Malaysia, its not to late for the breeding male at Cincinnati or the two young animals....

I know, sumatran rhinos are very popular animals to all zoolovers, including me, but this species is not kept just for show for zoolovers, they are the last remaning animals of a spectecular failed attempt to create a breeding outside of indonesia...

John Aspinall has recognized that after the loss of the two females and he had done the only right thing, sending Torgamba back to indonesia. They sould do the same with the Us-sumatran rhinos, instead of sending Harapan from one point to another and "hoping" to get one new female-for what ?

But what success there has been in captive breeding has been at Cincinnati, not Way Kambas. Maybe Torgamba would have bred in the US; certainly to have a male unrelated to the young Cincinnati female would have been a huge boost.

At any event, I just don't see the argument for putting all the species' eggs into the Way Kambas basket.

 

[Fuzzball]

Maybe, but what are the options for sumatran rhinos in the USA ? You need more than three animals, which are all related to each other, to create a healthy, selfsaving population...The chances for this species are better at Way Kambas, ( Andalas has bred there , but the calf was stillborn! ) And, of course, instead of paying a lot of money to keep sumatran rhinos in captivity without any chances to breed, this money should be used for the protection of sumatran rhinos in situ.