Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens Sumatran rhino returning to LA Zoo

[DavidBrown]

Where in the article does it mention that White Oak is closing?

Well they mention that the wildlife is a liability for selling the place and that the people running it are worried about it's future. I assume that means that there is a real possibility that it could be closed.

The possibility of White Oak shutting down as a wildlife preserve and retreat seems to be what the entire article is about.

 

[gerenuk]

Well they mention that the wildlife is a liability for selling the place and that the people running it are worried about it's future. I assume that means that there is a real possibility that it could be closed. Do you need to be so sarcastic all the time? No offense, but the possibility of White Oak shutting down seems to be what the entire article is about.

Its not sarcasm, and why do you need to jump to conclusions? This is how bad rumors start. The entire article is basically an advertisement for the sale of the property and its assets.

 

[DavidBrown]

Its not sarcasm, and why do you need to jump to conclusions? This is how bad rumors start. The entire article is basically an advertisement for the sale of the property and its assets.

gerenuk, the article states clearly that the people running White Oak are worried about its future and that the wildlife may be an impediment to selling it. Am I missing something? The concluding sentence of the article is a statement from a potential buyer who indicates that he didn't buy it because of the expense of keeping the animals and that this may be a deal breaker for other potential buyers as well.

I assumed that you posted the article to indicate that Harapan was shipped off to LA because White Oak is at least in part taking apart its wildlife program, or at the very least ending their Sumatran rhino program.

 

[gerenuk]

Its very true, the wildlife portion would keep many potential buyers away. But it is not necessarily an indication that it will close out the non-profit portion of the plantation. The article is rather misleading in regards to the how the property and its assets are currently managed. The resort end being run by the foundation and the wildlife end being managed by a non-profit, but owned by the foundation.

As with Harapan, its been mentioned before on this site that white oak had been looking to get rid of him for a few years now - the conservation center has been shipping out animals for two years in response to the recession. This has included most of its birds, several cheetah to busch gardens, and hoofstock to the UAE.

 

[Moebelle]

Are there large shade canopies or just a majority of shade in general in the exhibit. Also is it all covered in mud?

 

[Michael]

Harapan is currently off exhibit in a very shaded area. Several exhibits have been suggested, but no definative exhibit has been selected. The original zoos involved were LA San Diego, Cincinnati, Bronx, National Zoo & Miami. Each zoo would receive a pair, however no one knew what sexes would be captured. National Zoo & Miami dropped out due to costs involved. More females than males were captured(one must remember that the Indonesian zoos were also going to get animals) and the ratios were skewed. The animals were more difficult to work with based on other rhino species captive diet .
The newly captured rhinos quickly tamed down. In fact, Torgamba was eating out of the hands of the keepers less than 24 hours after capture. More later!

 

[Moebelle]

Harapan is currently off exhibit in a very shaded area. Several exhibits have been suggested, but no definative exhibit has been selected. The original zoos involved were LA San Diego, Cincinnati, Bronx, National Zoo & Miami. Each zoo would receive a pair, however no one knew what sexes would be captured. National Zoo & Miami dropped out due to costs involved. More females than males were captured(one must remember that the Indonesian zoos were also going to get animals) and the ratios were skewed. The animals were more difficult to work with based on other rhino species captive diet .
The newly captured rhinos quickly tamed down. In fact, Torgamba was eating out of the hands of the keepers less than 24 hours after capture. More later!

Okay thank you. Are there any exhibits like that in L.A.?

Like these

http://photos.zoochat.com/large/cincinnati_zoo_020-12679.jpg
http://photos.zoochat.com/large/cincinnati_zoo_023-12682.jpg

 

[Michael]

Currently there are no exhibits like that. The yard were Andalas was kept was shaded and had a mudwallow. When Andalas left the shade was removed to accomodate takin. The exhibit area is quite large and the takin have had offspring. I do not know what the plan is at the present time. Prior to Harapan we had a total of 4 Sumatran rhinos at the zoo.

 

[DavidBrown]

Currently there are no exhibits like that. The yard were Andalas was kept was shaded and had a mudwallow. When Andalas left the shade was removed to accomodate takin. The exhibit area is quite large and the takin have had offspring. I do not know what the plan is at the present time. Prior to Harapan we had a total of 4 Sumatran rhinos at the zoo.

Hi Michael, it is great to have you on ZooChat. Welcome.

Do you have any insight into why the zoo is taking so long to decide if, and where, Harapan should be on exhibit? It seems very strange that they would herald his arrival in a newsletter and then just keep him off exhibit unless there is some husbandry or behavioral reason why they wouldn't.

 

[Javan Rhino]

Hi Michael, it is great to have you on ZooChat. Welcome. Do you have any insight into why the zoo is taking so long to decide if, and where, Harapan should be on exhibit? It seems very strange that they would herald his arrival in a newsletter and then just keep him off exhibit unless there is some husbandry or behavioral reason why they wouldn't.

Scanning Michael's first reply, I think this is the closest to an answer:

Several exhibits have been suggested, but no definative exhibit has been selected.

What that says to me is that they want to put him on display, but they need to pick the perfect part of the zoo, with plenty of shade. It seems that they're still undecided about where he will have the best welfare, and where he will best fit in etc.

I too was suprised with how quickly Torgamba settled in and tamed, only reading the story in a 1992 book by John Ironmonger about good British zoos [a recent purchase of ebay, and a welcome one].

It would be interesting to see, if any zoos were brave [foolish? - I don't think so] enough to try a new import of a handful of animals from the wild, what the outcome would be. The zoos [particularly those involved with the original programme] know a lot more about the captive husbandry and I think the outcome this time would be successful, or at least much more so than last time.

I think one of the biggest tragedies of the original programme was that the Aspinalls got animals that were either all too old to be receptive, or were infertile? I think one animal [Torgamba?] may have been viable, but he never had a partner that was reproductively active [if I've remembered all of that correctly - I'm in a bit of a rush so not had time to double check the info ].

 

[Michael]

Torgamba was not an exception as to taming down quickly. All of the rhinos that came thru LA were very tractable. I doubt that CITES would allow imports to the US at this time. The original plan (1985)was to go into areas that were being cleared of forest for oil palm plantations. This is how all of the rhinos were captured, a salvage plan so to speak. I believe that in today's dollars it would be very expensive to mount an group that could afford to do that. Unfortunately The first female that Aspinall received died rather quickly after her arrival and the next female suffered from some medical problem. She died a few days after I saw her in 1994. The New York female was an older animal and I believe she too was infertile. I will add more about this topic later.
The Way Kambas animals need to produce offspring first.

 

[Pertinax]

I do not know of much news. IRF (International Rhino Foundation) has its hands in a lot of the Sumatran Rhino programs in Indonesia. They are often selective in what they publicly announce. But if there is any news, it is likely to come from that source.

Just discovered my access to the IRF website site seems to have been blocked since I last looked. Any one else had this problem? Maybe I've been too curious for information about the Sumatran rhino programme on here? I guess I'll have to go on another computer to access that site.

 

[FBBird]

Sumatran rhino...

It would be interesting to review London Zoo's husbandry of their 19th century Sumatrans, at least two of which lived into their thirties. I'm not sure how many they actually acquired; it may be that they tried enough individuals that some survived and did well. It is also possible that they were doing something right. I have a suspicion that [given his runaway success with Gorillas despite his first male being a non-breeder] if Aspinall had ALL the more recent imports, he would have done well.

 

[Tim May]

It would be interesting to review London Zoo's husbandry of their 19th century Sumatrans, at least two of which lived into their thirties. I'm not sure how many they actually acquired; it may be that they tried enough individuals that some survived and did well.

Rookmaaker (1998) lists nine Sumatran rhinos at London Zoo; only two of them lived a long while:-

• Female ‘Begum’ (15th Feb 1872 – 31st August 1900)
• Male ‘Jackson’ (27th April 1886 – 22nd November 1910)

NB ‘Begum’ was captured in 1867 so known to be at least 33 years old at death.

Interestingly both of these two long-lived animals were of the ‘hairy-eared’ sub-species;
Dicerorhinus sumatrensis lasiotis indeed ‘Begum’ was the type specimen of this sub-species.

 

[Tim May]

Just discovered my access to the IRF website site seems to have been blocked since I last looked. Any one else had this problem? Maybe I've been too curious for information about the Sumatran rhino programme on here? I guess I'll have to go on another computer to access that site.

No; I can still access this site.

 

[DavidBrown]

Still no word on if the Sumatran rhino is ever going on display at the LA Zoo (assuming that he is even still there), and it has been nearing a year since he arrived.

Actions speak louder than words, so I assume that the answer to whether he is going on exhibit is "no". Would be very happy to be wrong about that.

 

[Michael]

I saw him yesterday and he looks great. In order to put him on exhibit, more shade will have to be provided wherever he would be exhibited and that will take funding that the zoo might not have at this time.

 

[rhinoman]

does anyone have an update on harapan, his whereabouts, enclosure etc
My mind is that rather than have him there waiting for the unlikely arrival of a fertile female send him off to the SRS in Indonesia.
Better chance of him breeding there than by himself in a zoo.
I appreciate any updates. I LOVE SUMATRAN RHINOS.
International Rhino Fund - RUNNING FOR RHINOS

 

[rhinoman]

updates on harapan anyone?

does anyone have an update on harapan, his whereabouts, enclosure etc
My mind is that rather than have him there waiting for the unlikely arrival of a fertile female send him off to the SRS in Indonesia.
Better chance of him breeding there than by himself in a zoo.
I appreciate any updates. I LOVE SUMATRAN RHINOS.
International Rhino Fund - RUNNING FOR RHINOS

 

[DavidBrown]

Michael, the former curator at the Los Angeles Zoo, would be the most knowledgable person here probably about what is going on with Harapan. His post above from June 20 2012 is his last post here about Harapan to my knowledge. I'm not sure that Michael is still reading and posting here on Zoochat.


The LA Zoo has made no public announcements about Harapan, nor if he is ever going on exhibit. From Michael's info above I would assume that Harapan is still behind the scenes at the LA Zoo. He is invisible to the public. From the absence of any information from the zoo it seems that there is no plan for him to be on public exhibit.