I do agree with all of my heart. London zoo has had a tough time recently,losing one of their beautiful animals, Melati. Antis are just making it harder and harder for London. They should just leave the situation alone!
ZSL London Zoo Sumatran tiger Melati killed by Asim
- Thread starter oflory
- Start date
I do agree with all of my heart. London zoo has had a tough time recently,losing one of their beautiful animals, Melati. Antis are just making it harder and harder for London. They should just leave the situation alone!
I visited London Zoo on Wednesday 13 February. Tiger territory is now fully open but the atmosphere is understandably sombre. There is a notice saying there are no tiger talks today (and probably for the time being) and there is a table near the entrance by the covered part of the enclosure where some people have left flowers and tributes for Melati. There didn't appear to be many ZSL staff around.
Interesting Asim the tiger was visible the whole time when I was at the enclosure which was for around half and hour. He was resting at first but then he was stolling around both sides of the enclosure and looked lively and generally quite settled there. It was reported that he was slightly injured in the fight with Melati but he didn't appear to me to have any obvious injuries. He was exploring almost all of the enclosure when I was there and was actually showing signs of being quite settled. At one stage he was even rolling around on the floor on his back with his stomach exposed which I believe is very positive body language. (In a domestic cat this would mean that they are in a good mood and want to play with you or another cat). However soon after this he had wandered to the covered part of the enclosure and appeared more agitated and I heard him roaring. When I briefly went back to Tiger territory about an hour later he was asleep in the enclosed bit.
So just from my visit Asim seems to be an animated and intelligent tiger but his behaviour seems to be a bit unpredictable.
Here are some pictures and a video from my visit.
It obviously remains to be seen if he has a future at London Zoo.
Interesting Asim the tiger was visible the whole time when I was at the enclosure which was for around half and hour. He was resting at first but then he was stolling around both sides of the enclosure and looked lively and generally quite settled there. It was reported that he was slightly injured in the fight with Melati but he didn't appear to me to have any obvious injuries. He was exploring almost all of the enclosure when I was there and was actually showing signs of being quite settled. At one stage he was even rolling around on the floor on his back with his stomach exposed which I believe is very positive body language. (In a domestic cat this would mean that they are in a good mood and want to play with you or another cat). However soon after this he had wandered to the covered part of the enclosure and appeared more agitated and I heard him roaring. When I briefly went back to Tiger territory about an hour later he was asleep in the enclosed bit.
So just from my visit Asim seems to be an animated and intelligent tiger but his behaviour seems to be a bit unpredictable.
Here are some pictures and a video from my visit.
It obviously remains to be seen if he has a future at London Zoo.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
They certainly will, but you can't just reflexively oppose antis on every front ('They say Melati dying was bad so we must say it's totally ok', to construct a slightly ludicrous strawman). To be clear, I have absolutely no issue if ZSL conclude that they did everything right and that they would do the same in the same situation in the future, and I have absolutely no doubt that they will be (have been) examing the incident at great length to determine if this is the case.
That’s really nice that people are leaving tributes to Melati, and that the zoo have created a space for people to share what she meant to them (note that Melati’s poster board is in the background). They should put out a condolence book also.
That’s a really good point. Melati was with Jae Jae for close to 7 years ie. most of her life and was probably very much in the mind set that she was the dominant cat and this was her territory.
Assim should have been allowed longer to settle IMO before introductions. New enclosure,smells,keepers to get used to would have been enough in the first week I would have thought.
1 week doesn't seem long enough especially IF his behaviour was already known to be POTENTIALLY volatile and aggressive towards a previous female. However I am aware that this may have happened regardless of time frame, just wish they'd of let him settle for longer. I hope a new mate (if brought in) isn't rushed into.
1 week doesn't seem long enough especially IF his behaviour was already known to be POTENTIALLY volatile and aggressive towards a previous female. However I am aware that this may have happened regardless of time frame, just wish they'd of let him settle for longer. I hope a new mate (if brought in) isn't rushed into.
No disrespect but as far as I know you have no keeping experience of tigers (ZSL does). Whilst it's not unreasonable to question timescales I don't think statements like yours help an already (over)heated debate.
In fairness to @Embu, he states in his post that it his opinion. He is entitled to his opinion (as are you and everyone else); and has the right to express it on ZooChat as long as he follows the guidelines for posting.
I believe he has been constructive in expressing his opinion, brought up some good points, and has stated he is aware of not knowing the full picture (as do none of us).
You're quite right in that I have no experience in tiger keeping, as possibly most of us on here do not have. However the fact remains that the introductions could have been left a little bit longer and as this is a forum we are all allowed our opinion.
If you read my post I'm only expressing my personal view not going off facts. This incident could have happened after one week or one month.
But he's only referring to the 'antis' getting involved, rather that any internal investigations by the Zoo themselves...
I don't think in this video the two cats are serious about hurting each other, they just seem to be working out who's boss. I don't think the hose contributed much to ease the introduction.
I understand that and, subtle though my point is, my issue is that you're expressing an opinion which is not based on facts/knowledge (rather than raising a question). i.e. you have no basis to suggest a week is too little time. It's like saying Zoo XXX is rubbish even though you knew nothing of it's circumstances and had not visited it.
Exactly, the introduction would (unless other informed facts come to light) have been based on best knowledge and experience and, although moot, there's no evidence to suggest waiting longer would have impacted on the outcome (happy to read papers suggesting otherwise, and reconsider my opinion, if there are any).
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
My reply was aimed at the '**** happens' part of the comment, although that wasn't perhaps clear.
My point was that this sort of thing will sometimes happen, any collection is going to review their practice and see if things might have been managed better. What they don't need, is ill-informed criticism from the 'Great Unqualified to Judge'.
Regardless of our opinions on the matter, fact remains a genetically important(i believe from what I've read) Sumatran tiger has been lost from the breeding program. I also don't hold anything personal against ZSL London for what has happened and wish them all the best in the future.