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Zoofan15 said:
It's ironic that the zoo's that didn't cooperate with loaning their surplus bulls to Sydney Zoo will one day need their input to the breeding programme. With two surviving founders (that are unrelated to most cows in the region) and many unutilised first generation bulls; this isn't likely to be for several decades however.
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I'm not sure its that ironic. No matter if you look at it from a commercial, elephant welfare or operational viewpoint, there wasn't much incentive to gift them elephants.

Taronga has no shortage of elephant accommodation and no need to move out elephants in the immediate or even mid-term. Some of the older cows at Dubbo will die soon making more room and even then there is still the option to switch the young bulls with the cows at the city zoo (something as i see being very possible) to make more room again at Dubbo.

The exhibit at Sydney Zoo is not better than either exhibits at Dubbo or Taronga. So one can't argue the animals would be happier in western Sydney. Sure they have a lonesome on-loan cow there that might benefit, but again, thats not Taronga's problem. I wouldn't even discount that Dubbo have offered to home Saigon there if the Bullen's want that.

And helping Sydney Zoo acquire another major point of competition with their city zoo isn't really in their interests either.

So I get it. And hey, this import is good for the elephant population here and its reasonable for Sydney to be expected to import elephants like everyone else if they want to join the elephant program. So putting aside my opposition to elephants in city zoos, its all good news in my book.
 
Those two young bulls come from a family plagued by very many calves and half-growns lost to herpes virus. Personaly, I hope they will never mix with other elephants in Australian zoos.
 
Jana said:
Those two young bulls come from a family plagued by very many calves and half-growns lost to herpes virus. Personaly, I hope they will never mix with other elephants in Australian zoos.
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Tukta, a young female already died from EEHV at Taronga two years ago, so I see no reason why not.

The Australasian Region will definitely need new genetics in the future to continue breeding, and these new genetics can only come from overseas. These juvenile males seem like a brilliant opportunity for new genetics to be added into the region; considering the region only has two founders ( Putra Mas and Gung). These two could mean the region has two more, which would be extremely beneficial to the diversity of genetics.
 
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toothlessjaws said:
No matter if you look at it from a commercial, elephant welfare or operational viewpoint, there wasn't much incentive to gift them elephants.
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Of course there was. Luk Chai and Pathi Harn are two adolescent bulls that cost the zoo a sh-t ton in food expenses. They likely won't be utilised in the breeding programme for at least a decade or two; and now they are no longer calves, are no greater attraction to the public than any other elephant at Dubbo. Commercially speaking, they'd be better off transferring them to another facility and putting the resources spent on them towards breeding more calves, which will not only attract more visitors; but maintain the reproductive health of the cows by more frequent breeding. It's a no brainer.

Operationally speaking, all that could be achieved by not sharing the toys in the sandpit with Sydney Zoo is delaying their plans to acquire elephants (which they managed with or without the assistance of any of our regional zoos).
toothlessjaws said:
Some of the older cows at Dubbo will die soon...
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No, just Burma...
 
An update on the Asian Elephant bulls arriving from Dublin Zoo, Ireland via Knowsley Safari Park, UK. The two males moved to the safari park for their three-month quarantine period back in January 2020. From Dublin Zoo's annual report:
Meanwhile significant work was undertaken to place Kavi and Ashoka, the five-year old 1500kg Asian elephant bulls, in Sydney Zoo, a new zoo in Australia where the animals will be kept in protected contact. Due to strict quarantine arrangements, Knowsley Safari Park in Britain agreed to keep the bulls in the three-month quarantine required by the Australian authorities before shipment to Australia; quarantine at Dublin Zoo was not an option. Elephant expert, Alan Roocroft, assisted with the transport plan. The move to Britain took place on schedule in January 2020
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Link: https://www.dublinzoo.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Dublin-Zoo-Annual-Report-2019_sml.pdf
 
Yassa said:
No, they already left for Australia in october. They are already there!
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Zorro said:
Having been here for a while :D
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I have to say, this was a difficult secret for us all to keep. I’m surprised we lasted this long. :D

I’ll be watching with interest to see if there’s any cooperation between the zoos via AI with these bulls. It’ll probably just be business as normal (especially since we have two valuable founder bulls); but from a logistics perspective, they’re closer to Taronga Zoo than any other facility that holds elephants. Not necessarily essential given Dubbo and Melbourne have flown in semen from Perth, but interesting to note nonetheless.

If Australia Zoo are never able to source to a purebred Sumatran bull, they may also wish to undertake AI with one of these bulls; though I understand their preference is to maintain a purebred herd.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I have to say, this was a difficult secret for us all to keep. I’m surprised we lasted this long. :D

I’ll be watching with interest to see if there’s any cooperation between the zoos via AI with these bulls. It’ll probably just be business as normal (especially since we have two valuable founder bulls); but from a logistics perspective, they’re closer to Taronga Zoo than any other facility that holds elephants. Not necessarily essential given Dubbo and Melbourne have flown in semen from Perth, but interesting to note nonetheless.

If Australia Zoo are never able to source to a purebred Sumatran bull, they may also wish to undertake AI with one of these bulls; though I understand their preference is to maintain a purebred herd.
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Given the highly threatened status and the genetic uniqueness of the Sumatran and Bornean elephants, the latter would be an unwise route. I would also hope that relations with RM Indonesia are as good as to allow importation of a pure-bred Sumatran bull to keep the gene pool alive.

With Australia Zoo having gone along with their acquisition and not investing in Indian/Malaysian elephant necessitates taking this route. I would like to draw your attention also to the new EAZA/EEP directional line to prevent further breeding of Bornean elephant in Europe and separating the Sumatran elephant stock from the mainland Indian/Malaysian bloodlines. I think that is a wise decision for now (even though myself, I would favour an ex situ over Continents conservation breeding program for both Sumatran and Bornean elephant).
 
There are some Sumatran and Bornean elephants elsewhere in Asia, for example in Chimelong safari park in China. Theoretically, it could be possible to obtain bulls there, especially that bulls are often surplus. Or send the cows on a breeding loan in exchange for a bull later.
 
Jurek7 said:
There are some Sumatran and Bornean elephants elsewhere in Asia, for example in Chimelong safari park in China. Theoretically, it could be possible to obtain bulls there, especially that bulls are often surplus. Or send the cows on a breeding loan in exchange for a bull later.
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If you refer to Sumatran elephants - Australia Zoo, they have a direct line to Taman Safari already. Closer over all to Australia.
 
toothlessjaws said:
Why was their arrival kept secret? Wasn't it reported in the papers many months ago that Sydney Zoo was importing elephants from Dublin?
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Its likely because it may off caused problems from some animal rights groups which now appears to be happening with the move of the Auckland zoos elephants reported in the media!
 
toothlessjaws said:
Why was their arrival kept secret? Wasn't it reported in the papers many months ago that Sydney Zoo was importing elephants from Dublin?
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Zorro said:
Its likely because it may off caused problems from some animal rights groups which now appears to be happening with the move of the Auckland zoos elephants reported in the media!
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Not to mention Sydney Zoo are the most secretive zoo I’ve ever emailed. They wouldn’t even tell me the names of their tigers (after they’d arrived). If it wasn’t for the research skills of @WhistlingKite24; and my tiger ID skills, we’d all still be in the dark.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Not to mention Sydney Zoo are the most secretive zoo I’ve ever emailed. They wouldn’t even tell me the names of their tigers (after they’d arrived). If it wasn’t for the research skills of @WhistlingKite24; and my tiger ID skills, we’d all still be in the dark.
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I believe Australia zoo would give Sydney zoo a run for its money then it comes to being secretive! :D
 
Zorro said:
I believe Australia zoo would give Sydney zoo a run for its money then it comes to being secretive! :D
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Tis true @Zorro! It shall never be public knowledge what day of 1998 Megawati was born. One can only imagine how a lad like me could run amok with such info.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Tis true @Zorro! It shall never be public knowledge what day of 1998 Megawati was born. One can only imagine how a lad like me could run amok with such info.
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I can well understand why a lot of zoos are not forthcoming with a lot of information to the public because of some animal rights groups but some take it to the far extreme :rolleyes:
 
Now the important question, when will we get to see pictures of the boys? They can only keep two young bulls hiding in that tiny barn of theirs for so long.
 
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