Taiping Zoo Taiping Zoo visit Dec 2007

N

Nigel

Well-Known Member
I last visited this place 16 years ago , and could see the whole zoo in 10 minutes back then -- all of the animals were in concrete cells with no shade , no enrichment , and poor substrate . It was really depressing back then .

Well I got a big surprise today . I wouldnt say that the zoo is up to "Great Zoos of the World " standards , but 90 % of the enclosures would be of reasonable size for the animals ( as far as city zoos go ) and many of them had so much vegetation in them that you had to look very carefully if you were going to see any specimans .

There were numerous old enclosures throughout the zoo that were closed for renovations ( not that there was any actual construction , but at least this is the fate for the worst of the enclosures )

The zoo itself has a rustic jungle atmosphere which provides shade for the animals , as well as hiding spots , and substrate seemed to be preferable for the animals .

There is still a fair bit of work to be done to clean the place up , and make alterations here and there , but it is on par with Wellington Zoo now , and is better than Seoul Zoo .

Quite aside from the furore the zoo got itself into re gorillas from Africa a few years ago ( I wanted to see what the actual zoo was like ) it certainly has improved heaps from its earlier days .
There is a new LARGE animal hospital almost completed which would be the pride and joy of any zoo ( especially Wellington Zoo -- the operating theatre is a glorified broom cupboard with a fold down ironing board ! )

noted problem areas that I saw ;
Unfortunately they had 5 elephants ( including 2 juniors ) in 1/4 acre , and some of the adults were swaying trunks ,
The hippo enclosure was a large lake but very little land

I will give the zoo a cautious thumbs up , provided that they dont do any more really silly things ......
The snake house was poorly signposted
 
Due to them buying in poached gorilla infants I have to give them a thumbs down.
 
the "poached gorilla " incident

I figured that this was going to come up , and so I did some investigation into the incident .
It appears to be a case of inaccurate media reporting .

It was a city official who was given the baby gorilla as a gift from the African city he was visiting . In reciprocation he decided to give the African city some money so that the city could upgrade its services wherever the city felt best .
The city official then flew back to Taiping and presented the gorilla to the Zoo as the zoo would be the obvious place for caring for gorillas .
Neither party checked with the legal implications of these actions , but the zoo certainly did NOT instigate the matter , nor did the zoo pay any money for the gorilla , as has been stated on this thread .
The media naturally jumped on the bandwagon and made a good story of the whole issue , and to heck with facts .

When I went to the zoo yesterday , I wanted to see what the zoo was like , with the mindset of someone who didnt know of the stupid saga .

I quite agree that it was irresponsible for the city officials in both Taiping and Africa to do what they did , but that doesnt alter the fact that the zoo is now a darn sight better than it was when I first saw it .

It was the media that told NZ that a Wellington keeper was mauled by lions a year or two back . When I found out that it was Bobby , I went to the hospital to visit him . He had a few bite marks and minor lacerations , but he certainly wasnt " Mauled " The stupid %#$&$%# media werent interested in reporting FACTS !! All they care about is a story .

I will stand by my statement that Taiping Zoo is currently on par with Wellington Zoo , is heaps better than Seoul Zoo , and the animals are in far better condition now than what they were from my first visit .

PS ; I think I can safely say that the zoo will be seeking legal advice every time they want to send or acquire any animal .
 
Nigel said:
I figured that this was going to come up , and so I did some investigation into the incident .
It appears to be a case of inaccurate media reporting .

It was a city official who was given the baby gorilla as a gift from the African city he was visiting . In reciprocation he decided to give the African city some money so that the city could upgrade its services wherever the city felt best .
The city official then flew back to Taiping and presented the gorilla to the Zoo as the zoo would be the obvious place for caring for gorillas .
Neither party checked with the legal implications of these actions , but the zoo certainly did NOT instigate the matter , nor did the zoo pay any money for the gorilla , as has been stated on this thread .
The media naturally jumped on the bandwagon and made a good story of the whole issue , and to heck with facts .

When I went to the zoo yesterday , I wanted to see what the zoo was like , with the mindset of someone who didnt know of the stupid saga .

I quite agree that it was irresponsible for the city officials in both Taiping and Africa to do what they did , but that doesnt alter the fact that the zoo is now a darn sight better than it was when I first saw it .

It was the media that told NZ that a Wellington keeper was mauled by lions a year or two back . When I found out that it was Bobby , I went to the hospital to visit him . He had a few bite marks and minor lacerations , but he certainly wasnt " Mauled " The stupid %#$&$%# media werent interested in reporting FACTS !! All they care about is a story .

I will stand by my statement that Taiping Zoo is currently on par with Wellington Zoo , is heaps better than Seoul Zoo , and the animals are in far better condition now than what they were from my first visit .

PS ; I think I can safely say that the zoo will be seeking legal advice every time they want to send or acquire any animal .
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but as a primatologist who has followed the full story from the very start and knows the facts what you have posted is wrong. I can see from your post that you don't know the full story, as what you have said is incorrect and the people involved do know more that you think they do. It was actually 4 gorillas and it had nothing to do with the media beating up the story, the real facts were found out by in depth investigation.

I don't want to be rude, but you can't defend this, there were illegal acts conducted knowingly from many parties.
 
I think this is probably what he was told by someone at the Taiping Zoo when he was there. So fair enough him believing it.
 
I am sure it was damage control on their part, but what else are they going to do, admit it, I fully expect Taiping to have their own version. Nigel, the information we all received had nothing to do with the press, in fact all the info came through the primate mailing lists from the people doing the investigations, it was well documented outside the media.

I'll be avoiding this zoo until I am sure there is a different management team.
 
Taiping Zoo saga

After Jo's response , I decided to ask around town to find out more , and it appears that I was given the "official " story ( and I am not saying that it is the correct one ) The people who were interested in talking with me all had been fed a similar story .

It annoys me when zoos have to cover up their actions with lies , rather than even saying that it was something that with hindsight was not a good action ( and even that wouldnt be true ) Or the response I got from Wellington Zoo re the cheetah incident .
Pat -- I passed on your question to them and they havent responded .

What I dont figure though is this -- If this was a deliberate criminal act ( And I have no reason to doubt Jo on this issue at this time ) what else are they planning ? How come the zoo HAS actually improved HEAPS over the years ? If management were so crooked , the zoo should have stayed the same .

Personally , I wish for the perpetrators of the smuggling to be taken out of action . Throw them in ( a Malaysian ) prison , and throw the keys away ! I wont be shedding no tears !
But when a zoo had all of its animals in small cells with concrete floor and limited water ( example ; the elephant cell was about 7m x 7m , and the elephant was chained ) I was going to see how bad this zoo has deteriorated over the years . There is very little evidence of this type of housing now . It still has a lot of work ahead of it , but it isnt a bad zoo as zoos go .
To me , the important things about a zoo is the condition of the animals , and the conditions of the enclosures . You might all think that I have wrong priorities , but I am thinking of the animals that are there . Thats why I think the zoo is an improvement .
Replace the smugglers with a better zoo management team , and we will have a fairly good zoo as zoos go .

Jo , what other information do you have about this incident .
Were other Malaysian Zoos involved ?
How much involvement was by City Council , or was that a smoke screen ?
What happened to the gorrillas -- where are they now ?
 
I can get hold of all the information, but will take a few days because all the saved emails were on my stolen laptop and would have to go back to the lists, but for an overview now go here
International Primate Protection League ~ IPPL ~ Working To Protect All Living Primates Since 1973

and if you google Taiping 4 you will get some more info. It has been an ongoing saga for many years, the gorillas have only just this month been returned to Cameroon.

While I appreciate that some animals in their care may be well looked after, the fact they sought out smuggled gorillas negates all that happens in their zoo. It is well known that many gorillas must die to provide one live infant, the zoo proceeded knowing this so I question their commitment to all animals.

Gorillas are my heart animal so I am a bit touchy when it comes to poaching for infants in this day and age.
 
Small mamals at Taiping Zoo

Firstly , many thanks to Jo for your response .
I certainly do not condone poaching or smuggling of animals , and the sooner that the perpetrators are out of commission the better -- even if they were zoo directors ( who should know better ! )

Small mammals ( and I may include marsupials in this one ) included ; Dole , small clawed otter , larger otter ( no sign ) asiatic wild dog , lesser mousedeer , binturong , striped hyena , numerous civet and related species , asiatic wild dog , tree kangaroo , giant squirrels ......
Unfortunately I left my notes behind , and since that time I also visited Melaka Zoo , so I have to go by memory and zoo map .

There was no real fish exhibit , apart from one moat that had catfish as well as the usual koi .

Hope this helps.
 
I believe the Taiping Zoo director Kevin Lazarus knew very well about the origins of the gorillas. He was probably trying to outdo Singapore Zoo which failed many years ago in trying to house gorillas. European/American bred gorillas had lost their natural immunity to tropical diseases and only Equatorial African-born gorillas would be able to survive in Malaysia.

I guess Lazarus thought that by using a Nigerian Zoo as middleman, Taiping would be spared any backlash or that the matter would be covered up.
 
Jo said:
Due to them buying in poached gorilla infants I have to give them a thumbs down.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a dire thing that a zoo wants to buy into illegally held and threatened gorillas and I surely do not condone this. To me the whole affair seems shady dealings, but I lack full disclosure of all the facts. TRAFFIC being the international overseeer of illegal wildlife trade should have this information on offer. And I will find out my own way.

However, it is entirely another thing to disqualify a zoo's management on the basis of this incident alone. In effect Taiping Zoo is one of the better run zoos in Malaysia as it is and Ken Lazarus is a well respected individual in SEAZA zoo circles.

Their record for instance in maintaining and breeding elephants is something Taronga or Melbourne could only savy and dream off.

So, I will second Nigel's experience in early December 2007. :cool:
 
Malaysian Zoos

I had the opportunity to meet with a zoologist and Malaysias best known herpetologist . I asked them about their views of the Taiping Zoo .

They told me that the Taiping Zoo was in very poor condition some years ago , but now it is currently the best one in Malaysia , with more improvements in the pipeline . They both told me that the Zoo director , and all other people who knowingly was involved with the Gorilla issue , should be tossed in jail and the key thrown away . What was done was very wrong , and the current Zoo director doesnt deserve any sympathy ( and I wont give him any )

But as Jelle pointed out -- there is a difference between a zoo and a zoo management team . Is it the reptiles fault that the zoo is bad ? Was the writhed hornbill responsible in any way with the Taiping 4 incident ? How about the well looked after gardens , the improved enclosures , or the new plans to come ? Of course not .

Think of an example of what you would call a zoo that has noticably improved over the years .
Then imagine if the Director of that Zoo did some equally foolish thing , and knows better .
Does that now make the zoo a bad zoo ?

Of course not .

When I write a report about a zoo I write about what I see , and the conditions that are there . I do not write about the Director or any of the staff unless I personally experience something that is worth reporting .
I will write my views of KL Zoo and Melaka Zoo for the benefit of this forum

I do not know if the Directors of those zoos were involved in the Taiping 4 Racket -- they may well be for all I know . But I will be writing about how I found the ZOO rather than the ethics ( or lack of , in Taipings case ) of the Zoo Directors .

The Taiping Zoo was not perfect , but it appeared to be heading in the right direction ( The Directors callous stupidity re gorillas being the exception )
The elephants certainly need more stimulation and a far larger enclosure is an example of the zoos issues that needs to be addressed . But to be fair , the conditions were not much/any better in the two other major zoos . And if Taiping Zoo can make so much change in the last 15 years , I would be looking forward with interest to the next 15 years
 
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