Taronga Western Plains Zoo Taronga Western Plains Zoo 2014

zoomaniac said:
@Jabiru: First, thank you for your reply and your thoughts.

Maybe I was not precisly enough. Sorry for that. What I meant with "fit better" was, that the Elephant exhibit at Dubbo is located within the "Africa area" of the park, while the one (or to be exactly: the bigger one) in Sydney ist in the "Asian zone" (or surrounded with exhibits with animals from Asia).
Also - while I have visited Sydney and Dubbo - I was told from a local (motel manager), that there are only 2(!) rainy days in Dubbo (whom one of them I had the pleasure to witness it). So this would better fit African Elephant, while Asian Elephants prefer a more humid environment normally, which is basically given at a sea coast city like Sydney. But this is only an assumption/a guess and maybe you - as a person living in OZ - knows it better. (hope that was not rude. My native tonque is German, sorry).

I agree that the foliage of the exhibit is as important (if not sometimes more important) as the climatic conditions there. I must confess that I don't know the new exhibit at Dubbo (beside a few pictures). So if this exhibit is more/better covered then the one in Sydney, then indeed it is more suitable for Asians Elephants or at least as suitable as for African Elephants.

Because of the costs, my thoughts were that at least from what I know, when a zoo buys an Elephant from a official animal dealer/national park service/gouvernement, the individual price for an Asian Elephants is higher then for an African Elephant in general. But you are right. There are other costs to regard. So maybe for Australian zoos it is cheaper to get Asian Elephants. Also, my informations about this point are not really new, so maybe no longer valid.
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Yeah no worries! It does get pretty hot out in Dubbo (and most of inland Australia) which probably does suit African species better, but Asian species can be housed just as well provided with funds (for water sustainability, management, etc). The Cocos quarantine station is very valuable in its proximity to Asia, so that's why many species are imported from Asia rather than Africa (I would assume not only benefiting costs but also convenience). One of the things that I am adamant in defending is that these elephants needed to be moved for the sake of their wellbeing which was compromised by the limited space in a city zoo. Another thing I am adamant about is that this is not entirely Taronga's fault; yeah they could have built a bigger exhibit but in fairness they were not expecting to house a bull at all (original plans were to AI the cows from Auckland, where the bull would be housed, not naturally bred at Taronga). I think that this is the best plan for the foreseeable future as there is just no room left anymore at Taronga (not only for the elephants but also for more exhibits.....the new tiger exhibit will have to knock down several others). :)
 
While its probably true that Africans would suit Dubbo better, I'd still prefer Australasian zoos to just focus on one elephant species, as there is no way the region can sustain two decent populations of elephant.
 
@zooboy28: Why is there no way? Do you mean because of the - indeed OFTEN high - cost of keeping them?

If so, I allow myself an objection: There are some zoos and/or safari parks specially in Southwestern Europe (e.g. Carbaceno, Spain and Beauval, France) with decent to very good Elephant exhibits. But compared to others like Zurich, Leipzig, Cologne and others they were cheap to built and in maintenance. These exhibits could be copied for Australian zoos, specially because most parts of Australia do not require expensive indoor enclosures for Elephants. Also, compared to Europe, there is much more space available normally.
What about keeping all Asian Elephants in urban zoos like Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth, Sydney and - new - Brisbane and Mogo as well as because of the climatic conditions in Beerwah (Australia Zoo) again (and in Darwin, if there is a zoo in this area) and African Elephants for Dubbo, Monarto, Werribee and - new - Canberra. Cairns Wildlife Safari could fit for each of both species.
And if Warner Bros. (Sea World Gold Coast) still wanna built exhibits for hippos and gorillas, why not built a complete new Africa themed attraction (= Safari park) in that highly tourist frequented region?
And why not acquire Elephants together with New Zealand zoos and Safari parks and a better (easier) exchange between zoos in South East Asia with Elephants (e.g. Singapore, Kuala Lumpur)?

I know, many "IFs" and "MAYBEs", a castle in the air, but the ideas aren't that bad, are they?
 
zoomaniac said:
And if Warner Bros. (Sea World Gold Coast) still wanna built exhibits for hippos and gorillas, why not built a complete new Africa themed attraction (= Safari park) in that highly tourist frequented region?
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Not wanting to go off-topic but I have heard rumours that the planned African area at Sea World (don't quote me on that if it actual materialises). Around five years ago there were plans to turn Werribee into an African safari park (owned by the same owners as Sea World GC) but plans fell through. Possibly if it did happen we would have seen African elephants in Australia (well, not neglecting lonely Cuddles at Dubbo, but I mean an actual breeding herd)?
 
zoomaniac said:
@zooboy28: Why is there no way? Do you mean because of the - indeed OFTEN high - cost of keeping them?

If so, I allow myself an objection: There are some zoos and/or safari parks specially in Southwestern Europe (e.g. Carbaceno, Spain and Beauval, France) with decent to very good Elephant exhibits. But compared to others like Zurich, Leipzig, Cologne and others they were cheap to built and in maintenance. These exhibits could be copied for Australian zoos, specially because most parts of Australia do not require expensive indoor enclosures for Elephants. Also, compared to Europe, there is much more space available normally.
What about keeping all Asian Elephants in urban zoos like Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth, Sydney and - new - Brisbane and Mogo as well as because of the climatic conditions in Beerwah (Australia Zoo) again (and in Darwin, if there is a zoo in this area) and African Elephants for Dubbo, Monarto, Werribee and - new - Canberra. Cairns Wildlife Safari could fit for each of both species.
And if Warner Bros. (Sea World Gold Coast) still wanna built exhibits for hippos and gorillas, why not built a complete new Africa themed attraction (= Safari park) in that highly tourist frequented region?
And why not acquire Elephants together with New Zealand zoos and Safari parks and a better (easier) exchange between zoos in South East Asia with Elephants (e.g. Singapore, Kuala Lumpur)?

I know, many "IFs" and "MAYBEs", a castle in the air, but the ideas aren't that bad, are they?
Click to expand...

I think the ideas are good, but I don't think that there would be enough support for them from the zoos. I can't see Taronga wanting two species (one per site), as it means they are extremely limited in what they can keep at the urban site - a tiny herd. None of the urban zoos would have the space to keep a good herd of elephants in acceptable enclosures, and certainly not a seperate male. And if the open range zoos have Africans, there is no space for the males and larger groups. Because the zoos would see no need to support both species. In the future, I imagine Taronga and Melbourne holding small herds breeding via AI, with larger breeding herds and males at their open range zoos, and groups at Perth, Australia, Auckland, possibly Monarto and a Gold Coast facility isn't entirely unimaginable (Sea World/Dreamworld). So you are slightly overestimating the numbers of zoos with elephant holding capabilities in the future. That's seven zoos only - hardly enough to manage two species usefully. Adelaide definitely has no space for elephants ever. Canberra, and other private zoos might have a chance to develop elephant exhibits, but that's decades away from reality.

For a large, robust, sustainable breeding programme, Australasia needs to focus on one elephant species - Asians. Cooperative imports among zoos did occur, but experienced major issues. Exchanges with South-East Asia (especially of sperm, given high cost of importing and quarantining elephants, as well as opposition from animal welfare groups) are the best way forward, but again these countries only keep Asian elephants (maybe there are some Africans, but only a handful).
 
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