Osedax
Well-Known Member
I believe they only had two deer in that exhibit. At least, that's all I saw in 2012 and 2014.
Taronga Zoo Taronga Zoo News 2024
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loganjmuir
Well-Known Member
The deer certainly required a larger space, but not Ekundu. Towards the end of their lifespan, Bongo males tend to go completely solitary, and can live in a small area and easily justify their needs. Bongo have always bred well in cities with sub-par exhibits as Taronga managed themselves. While he does deserve more space, Ekundu is content, and his age shows it.
It’s a shame Taronga didn’t give consideration to building a Congo precinct with Eastern bongo replacing Okapi. From the beginning, gorillas were intended to be the headliner; and while I know a number of us were excited about Okapi, their significance would have likely gone over the heads of the general public. Eastern bongo are stunning antelopes that many people enjoy admiring.
It’s clear from engagement on social media that the Pygmy hippopotamus is Taronga’s new animal star. I’m glad at least this species has a future at Taronga, with concrete plans for a new exhibit.
Yeah there was only ever a few at that time, they initially begun with a group of 1.4 and the male (Panki) was one of the last individuals in 2013/14.
Of memory the deer were pure filler as people found an exhibit with just a fake leopard in a tree not engaging enough. Then after the deer they housed jungle fowl in there. So an actual leopard would be far more ideal. I have always thought the exhibit looked to small for a bongo.
Sri Lankan leopard are ideal as they’re adept climbers, so well suited to tall cages. This reduces the footprint of the exhibit, which is always a bonus in a city zoo like Taronga. There’s the potential to build a multi-level viewing tower depending on how creative they want to be; but certainly a tall cage (fully enclosed as per containment requirements) would suffice.
With that in mind. I wonder if the white cheeked gibbon now squirrel monkey enclosure would be better. While its not very wide it is quite long and tall. But is a fully enclosed cage style exhibit.
The mesh looks a little flimsy, but with some strengthening/reinforcement, it could well prove suitable for a single male Sri Lankan leopard (it’s not a huge space). It’d be a nice compliment to the other rainforest species and while the Fishing cat may be uncomfortable living in close proximity to a big cat, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Taronga Zoo phase out Fishing cat.
It's a nice idea but I believe it does have some downsides.
One - the enclosure's ground level can be difficult to view (as it's an elevated enclosure on a cliff side).
Two - cats are known to dislike enclosures that allow visitors to look down on them, so I'm not so sure this will work. To add to that, the ground space isn't overly large too, with far more arboreal space.
An arboreal species would be far better suited to that enclosure imo.
The former Gibbon aviary is 300 sq m (30m x 10m) would of been suitable for a Leopard 25-35 years ago but with the vigilant watch most especially on Big Cats, Apes, Bears and Elephants now as the 4 most prioritised imo (Hoofstock and Wild Dogs and few others similar) I think it would be considered too small and the looking down issue @Jambo mentions a big one too.
I think Ekundu's yard/former Chital Deer quintet yard would be about 20% bigger and I think if done right it could actually be workable...but I'd advise a holding space built on about a quarter of the exhibit at an elevated level to give more daytime yard space so 25% of the exhibit have a roof on it and a night quarters above (quite like the Tiger and Lion (and Clouded Leopard, Binturong, Red Panda, Indian Porcupine) exhibits until 7-8years ago now off-display part of Tiger Trek where the night quarters were above viewing bay. Would not advise any more space be taken up by viewing bays. Just make it an enclosed exhibit with strong piano wire (or steel frames welded into similar size as narrow piano wire) and the foliage would give a Sri Lankan Leopard a preferred habitat with more obscurity. Would be a reason to make that Leopard model actually more relevant (every time have seen have just been made to think how Taronga has not had any panthera pardus Leopards in over 30 years, albeit decent cat collection until 8-19 years ago). If it turns out to not be enough space for a Sri Lankan Leopard it could be for a Clouded Leopard or bonded pair (Fishing Cat habitat is only 84 sq m so after the last individuals pass is not logical to keep as a cat exhibit unless perhaps a Rusty-spotted Cat or two came to Taronga from overseas someday).
I think Ekundu's yard/former Chital Deer quintet yard would be about 20% bigger and I think if done right it could actually be workable...but I'd advise a holding space built on about a quarter of the exhibit at an elevated level to give more daytime yard space so 25% of the exhibit have a roof on it and a night quarters above (quite like the Tiger and Lion (and Clouded Leopard, Binturong, Red Panda, Indian Porcupine) exhibits until 7-8years ago now off-display part of Tiger Trek where the night quarters were above viewing bay. Would not advise any more space be taken up by viewing bays. Just make it an enclosed exhibit with strong piano wire (or steel frames welded into similar size as narrow piano wire) and the foliage would give a Sri Lankan Leopard a preferred habitat with more obscurity. Would be a reason to make that Leopard model actually more relevant (every time have seen have just been made to think how Taronga has not had any panthera pardus Leopards in over 30 years, albeit decent cat collection until 8-19 years ago). If it turns out to not be enough space for a Sri Lankan Leopard it could be for a Clouded Leopard or bonded pair (Fishing Cat habitat is only 84 sq m so after the last individuals pass is not logical to keep as a cat exhibit unless perhaps a Rusty-spotted Cat or two came to Taronga from overseas someday).
All good ideas!
It’s been thrilling to see leopards make a come back within the region and a zoo of Taronga’s status should certainly be aspiring to hold them, rather than focussing on the bare minimum (lions and tigers). The enthusiasm from our region’s main zoos for Sri Lankan leopard has been very underwhelming; but I hope the major waves of redevelopment at Melbourne and Taronga will prove the turning point (especially now Adelaide has canned them to build a third tiger exhibit).
If Taronga want to breed Fishing cat, they need to dedicate more resources to them. Multiple off display exhibit and multiple breeding pairs would greatly enhance their success. Phasing out Fishing cat and demolition of their habitat seems the way to go; replaced within the collection by Clouded leopard - which I hope more zoos beyond the WCCC and Hamilton acquire.
Ideally gibbons would be great for the exhibit!.
The new type of mesh they are using for the tigers and lion exhibits would work to enclose the current bongo enclosure to turn it into a leopard enclosure. If the zoo doesn't want to go down the caged style exhibits which they did move away from at one point.
It wouldn't be difficult to widen the caged exhibit. However the floor being on a cliff and the walkway being viewed from above aren't going to be fixed easily.
For some reason that exhibit has always looked/given the impression it was bigger!.
Taronga Zoo has a long history with gibbons. They’ve held various species over the decades and so it’s rather strange to see them without gibbons at this point in time. The transfer of their male to Perth was necessary to provide him with companionship; and allowed Taronga to accomodate their surplus male squirrel monkeys, but long term, I imagine gibbons will return to Taronga. With much of that trail up for redevelopment, it’s an ideal opportunity; and there’s even the potential for a mixed species or rotational configuration with orangutan, should they also make a comeback.
@Tiger91
Its about 500 sq m t0 maybe 650 sq m but the shape of it is 'awkward' in getting that size, 45m-50 long at longest and 12-13 (maybe 14) metres at widest (I think the dense foliage including big trees surrounding give that impression of biggerness). I think the current yard is actually smaller than that by about 100 sq m, 500 sq m would involve remaking the boundaries closer to the walkways and lower path.
Personally though think if Taronga wasnt giving up on Bongos and Dholes were still a possibility would be better for continued use of older solo male Bongos like Ekundu and then maybe a small pack of Dholes eventually if Taronga sees (imo sense) and decides to build Bongo habitats in Congo precinct someday (holding out hope will become a precinct someday).
Adding the needed wire including a roof for a cat species would remove much of the naturalistic look of the area now that have thought more on it today (don't get me wrong very much want to see Leopards return to Taronga, maybe that spot not the place after-all). Clouded Leopards obviously being smaller would have more space. Personally would like seeing Leopards or Clouded Leopards living there with clever use of camouflage painted wiring and glass viewing.
Can imagine perhaps management would rather keep the area free of bars and glass, though never know maybe they wouldn't mind (Melbourne's Treetops/Arboreal walkway is a great precedent example) personally would just be happy to see charismatic animals in a comfortable home there and love the ideas you guys have shared already.
Re back to Leopards: but as to Sri Lankan Leopards who along with Clouded Leopards very passionate about seeing (back) at Taronga: for Sri Lankan Leopards when the Gorilla family move someday theres about 1000 sq m of space in that area; or Taronga realise the mock supermarket and airplane in 'Tiger Trek' are (imo) wasted space (few billboards and donation box to ranger stations can carry good conservation messages. As much as am sure a marketing person would argue the village supermarket etc are bigger more effective examples of messages to general public, still personally argue they should be short term components of that precinct, replaced by billboards etc).
Wondering if a Gibbon species returning to the zoo they would be incorporated into a time share thing with Orangutans returning (possibly big 'islands' surrounded by moats not too far from visitors with the elevated viewing of the Elephants currently being reused to see them at tree top levels.
Think the ex-Gibbon aviary would be good for Dusky Langurs, De Brazzas Guenons, BH Spider Monkeys or B+W Colobus Monkeys.
Its about 500 sq m t0 maybe 650 sq m but the shape of it is 'awkward' in getting that size, 45m-50 long at longest and 12-13 (maybe 14) metres at widest (I think the dense foliage including big trees surrounding give that impression of biggerness). I think the current yard is actually smaller than that by about 100 sq m, 500 sq m would involve remaking the boundaries closer to the walkways and lower path.
Personally though think if Taronga wasnt giving up on Bongos and Dholes were still a possibility would be better for continued use of older solo male Bongos like Ekundu and then maybe a small pack of Dholes eventually if Taronga sees (imo sense) and decides to build Bongo habitats in Congo precinct someday (holding out hope will become a precinct someday).
Adding the needed wire including a roof for a cat species would remove much of the naturalistic look of the area now that have thought more on it today (don't get me wrong very much want to see Leopards return to Taronga, maybe that spot not the place after-all). Clouded Leopards obviously being smaller would have more space. Personally would like seeing Leopards or Clouded Leopards living there with clever use of camouflage painted wiring and glass viewing.
Can imagine perhaps management would rather keep the area free of bars and glass, though never know maybe they wouldn't mind (Melbourne's Treetops/Arboreal walkway is a great precedent example) personally would just be happy to see charismatic animals in a comfortable home there and love the ideas you guys have shared already.
Re back to Leopards: but as to Sri Lankan Leopards who along with Clouded Leopards very passionate about seeing (back) at Taronga: for Sri Lankan Leopards when the Gorilla family move someday theres about 1000 sq m of space in that area; or Taronga realise the mock supermarket and airplane in 'Tiger Trek' are (imo) wasted space (few billboards and donation box to ranger stations can carry good conservation messages. As much as am sure a marketing person would argue the village supermarket etc are bigger more effective examples of messages to general public, still personally argue they should be short term components of that precinct, replaced by billboards etc).
Wondering if a Gibbon species returning to the zoo they would be incorporated into a time share thing with Orangutans returning (possibly big 'islands' surrounded by moats not too far from visitors with the elevated viewing of the Elephants currently being reused to see them at tree top levels.
Think the ex-Gibbon aviary would be good for Dusky Langurs, De Brazzas Guenons, BH Spider Monkeys or B+W Colobus Monkeys.
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Like most people on here, I resent phase outs; but what I resent even more is when they don’t do the remaining species justice - a solitary male here; a small non-breeding group here.
While Taronga has its follies (fake supermarkets; an obsession with recreational amenities), they’ve at least dedicated the space to breeding many of the species they hold. They have a Sumatran tiger breeding hub (with five exhibits); and were the only main city zoo in the region to have bred African lions in nearly two decades. They also hold the region’s largest chimpanzee troop, which functions as a community; and have held a breeding troop of gorillas since the 1990’s.
By showing a willingness to accomodate their own surplus on site, Taronga have been able to act as the breeding hub for several species, enriching the lives of those individuals and better engaging the public.
Realistically Taronga has been on the decline for years now, The once large imported Gorilla troup is just a shadow of its former self, Gibbons as far as I recall all but gone, Dholes gone, fishing cats almost gone, elephants almost gone the list gos on, Sure they still have a few major exhibits but surely that would be expected of what many would expect from what one could say in the country's top zoo?
I wouldn't call the Taronga the country top zoo anymore. There were a few FB polls when T swift visited Sydney zoo asking what people favourite zoo was. And the overwhelming majority of people voted Sydney zoo.
Unless Taronga starts to really do itself up again animal wise, going forward I feel like they will eventually keep turning the space into a human space with minimal animals until it has all gone. Or its effectively a mall with some giraffe and a couple lions and tigers.
I would be great to see dhole return to taronga!. Being a dog species they would be relatively easy to import as canines have fewer restrictions.
Creating a mesh Sri Lankan leopard exhibit where the fake sumatran village and supermarket/plane are would be the best idea. A meshed fully enclosed exhibit would match the one used for tigers (fig tree exhibit). There is enough space there with all the wasted space that would be better used by an engaging species people would take more notice of. It would the into the area nicely having tigers, sun bear and Sri Lankan leopards all housed in the same area from a visitor stand point.
Personally I would like to see the gibbons return to the exhibit where the silvery gibbons were. Maybe do the area up a bit. But the gibbons look better displayed in a large tree then a large cage. Then like you said spider monkeys or some other active primate species would work in the exhibit where the white cheeked gibbons were.
If taronga needs space for the squirrel monkeys. They need to create an exhibit for them at western plains zoo. Around the areas where they have play areas and cafes they would be suited for. And would make better sense then having multiple meerkat exhibits.
loganjmuir
Well-Known Member
The general theme throughout the Rainforest Trail is natural barriers ie. faux rock, foliage, water. so it wouldn’t make sense to incorporate glass viewing in Ekundu’s enclosure. IMO, it doesn’t make sense to hold Leopards there at all. The only area backstage would be viable is down at Ekundu’s ‘barn’. As this acts as the main viewing vista into the exhibit, it limits viewing into the exhibit, without removing the current masking foliage up the length of it.
As @steveroberts mentioned, Dholes would be a great addition to the collection, in Ekundu’s exhibit in particular. A backstage for a breeding pair would be easily incorporated, even where Ekundu’s barn sits.
Zoos have always been targeted at families, with children in particular, and Sydney Zoo offers just that. You can see everything in the zoo in a few hours without much complaint. The flatness of the zoo would of course factor into this, as Taronga’s elevation isn’t suitable for a lot of people. Phasing out as many animals as we have hasn’t helped either unfortunately. Many people tend to avoid the aviaries, which are in my opinion the best parts of Taronga, so many people are left wondering where all the animals are. Taronga aren’t even promoting their collection, leaving people confused as to where they keep the animals. A lot of people don’t even go to the Rainforest Trail, which definitely doesn’t help. While we have been an extremely successful breeding hub, we can’t just rely solely on these species. Something needs to happen, preferably before we lose the Elephants.