The Aspinall parks legacy

[Panthera1981]

This is merely a hypothetical question however, considering the current face of both Howletts and Port Lympne seems Hell bent on their collective closure, my question is... what would be the legacy of the Aspinall collections were both sites to close? Pioneering? Cavalier? Belligerent perhaps?

I was a regular visitor to both between the early to mid 1990s (I never did see the Sumatran rhino though!) but I last visited both sites in 2012 and certainly didn’t like the way Port Lympne was going. Certainly nothing I’ve heard or read on these forums in recent years sounds particularly positive either!

 

[DavidBrown]

In North America if anyone knows the Aspinall parks at all, the main legacy is a distant memory of a weirdo romping around in a cage with his pet gorillas and a zoo where bad practices got a lot of keepers killed. For anyone who really knows the Aspinall parks, a further legacy would be a failed attempt to reintroduce gorillas to the wild and a model of how not to do reintroductions.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

In North America if anyone knows the Aspinall parks at all, the main legacy is a distant memory of a weirdo romping around in a cage with his pet gorillas and a zoo where bad practices got a lot of keepers killed. For anyone who really knows the Aspinall parks, a further legacy would be a failed attempt to reintroduce gorillas to the wild and a model of how not to do reintroductions.

Agreed on most, if not ... how zoos can and should (and make more of an effort) instigate reintroduction projects for species like gorilla, rhinos, tapirs, zebras, tigers, leopards following the IUCN guidelines on reintroduction and being a guiding light in the science. For now, we have the archetypal examples like Arabian oryx or Przewalski horse ... where this is commonly done. Where I sometimes become a tad exasperated is when and where species like for example Grevy's zebra are successfully bred to the point they need to restrict breeding, zoos are actively supporting in situ initiatives and examples of in-country reintroduction projects using a mix of captive-bred and wild translocated Grevy's zebra are introduced in a protected environment and new location from its historical range. It can be done, but why is it not being done or even contemplated?

 

[Pertinax]

my question is... what would be the legacy of the Aspinall collections were both sites to close? Pioneering? Cavalier? Belligerent perhaps?

I was a regular visitor to both between the early to mid 1990s (I never did see the Sumatran rhino though!) but I last visited both sites in 2012 and certainly didn’t like the way Port Lympne was going. Certainly nothing I’ve heard or read on these forums in recent years sounds particularly positive either!

I am sure they would see their own legacy as 'pioneering'! But as to what those on here think, it might be rather different! But it seems to me closing them is just talked about, without ever being a real target.

 

[Panthera1981]

I am sure they would see their own legacy as 'pioneering'! But as to what those on here think, it might be rather different! But it seems to me closing them is just talked about, without ever being a real target.

It’s certainly been used as a “threat” many times over the years. I remember one such promise from Aspinall Snr after one of the keeper fatalities in the 1990s

 

[Dassie rat]

It’s certainly been used as a “threat” many times over the years. I remember one such promise from Aspinall Snr after one of the keeper fatalities in the 1990s

I remember a rather heated argument between zoo volunteers. One side said that it was a good idea for keepers to play with dangerous animals. The others said it was a bad idea.

A keeper let some volunteers touch female tigers at London Zoo. We touched them through bars in a squeeze cage and were safe. I have also been allowed to feed a peanut to a bear at Wildwood. Once again, it was safe and I wasn't at risk.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

In North America if anyone knows the Aspinall parks at all, the main legacy is a distant memory of a weirdo romping around in a cage with his pet gorillas and a zoo where bad practices got a lot of keepers killed. For anyone who really knows the Aspinall parks, a further legacy would be a failed attempt to reintroduce gorillas to the wild and a model of how not to do reintroductions.

I would say anyone who's more informed on the attempted Sumatran Rhino program will know the Aspinalls as once being a leader in rhino reproduction and believed by the Indonesian government to be the key collection in an ex-situ breeding program. Sadly, Cincinnati did not want to give them fertile animals...

Personally, I know the collections as once being a huge starter of breeding programs for endangered species, many of which have since been purposefully managed to extinction by Damien. Howletts in particular I knew once had a fantastic primate collection. My opinion today is more that they sooner they're gone and Damien is out of the zoo business the better...

~Thylo

 

[snowleopard]

In North America if anyone knows the Aspinall parks at all, the main legacy is a distant memory of a weirdo romping around in a cage with his pet gorillas and a zoo where bad practices got a lot of keepers killed. For anyone who really knows the Aspinall parks, a further legacy would be a failed attempt to reintroduce gorillas to the wild and a model of how not to do reintroductions.

It's amazing that at least FIVE zookeepers were killed at the Aspinall parks, with 3 dead via tiger attacks and 2 dead by elephants, and still keepers proceeded to go inside enclosures with dangerous animals. There was also a chimpanzee that ripped the arm off a young boy in the 1980s. There doesn't seem to have been any keeper deaths in the past twenty years, although the reintroduction of gorillas in 2014 was an absolute disaster and gained the zoo a certain amount of modern day notoriety.

Having said all of that, the breeding success at the Aspinall parks has been nothing short of phenomenal for a tremendous number of species. It's truly amazing at what has been accomplished via an eccentric gambler! It's really too bad that Damian Aspinall seems hell-bent on tarnishing the legacy of the two zoos.

 

[Panthera1981]

My opinion today is more that they sooner they're gone and Damien is out of the zoo business the better...

I can’t see that happening unfortunately. Howletts is the family home so that’s a non-starter but PL’s been a millstone around Damian’s neck for years so maybe theres hope?The trouble is how do you make the site financially viable? Nearly half of it’s now been given over to extortionately-priced glamping! There’s also it’s location-the Port Lympne of the 90’s was pretty unforgivable to walk around, particularly if you had young children!

Don’t expect any change in opinion from the family either I suspect. Aren’t Damian’s offspring as belligerent as he is?

 

[FBBird]

John Aspinall really kickstarted the keeping and breeding of gorillas under non-sterile conditions. Up to then, they were kept under artificial conditions on tiled or concrete floors, and not given much chance to develop robust immune systems. Aspinall’s deep litter enclosures changed all this, his animals bred prolifically, and other collections followed suit.

 

[Pertinax]

I can’t see that happening unfortunately. Howletts is the family home so that’s a non-starter but PL’s been a millstone around Damian’s neck for years so maybe theres hope?The trouble is how do you make the site financially viable? Nearly half of it’s now been given over to extortionately-priced glamping! There’s also it’s location-the Port Lympne of the 90’s was pretty unforgivable to walk around, particularly if you had young children!

Agree with all of that. It was originally aquired to give them more space for breeding and keeping their stocks- its highly unsuitable as a venue for zoo visitors to walk around. I think its proved something of a white elephant. DA tried to sell it off once but failed. They went down the ' upmarket leisure' route instead and in recent years that seems to be predominating, with the animals there more as props in the background.

 

[Panthera1981]

A good debate so far, looking forward to hearing further.

As an aside, as I’ve stated in previous threads over the years, there were rumours of Aspinall Snr purchasing Whipsnade from ZSL during the Society’s crisis of the early 90’s. Substantive or not, I do wonder what Whipsnade would have become under Aspinall ownership.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

A good debate so far, looking forward to hearing further.

As an aside, as I’ve stated in previous threads over the years, there were rumours of Aspinall Snr purchasing Whipsnade from ZSL during the Society’s crisis of the early 90’s. Substantive or not, I do wonder what Whipsnade would have become under Aspinall ownership.

Very strange to imagine that alternative history that could have been

Somehow I don't think Aspinall sr. would have gone for crazy golf but I wouldn't put it past Aspinall jr.

 

[Pertinax]

A good debate so far, looking forward to hearing further.

As an aside, as I’ve stated in previous threads over the years, there were rumours of Aspinall Snr purchasing Whipsnade from ZSL during the Society’s crisis of the early 90’s. Substantive or not, I do wonder what Whipsnade would have become under Aspinall ownership.

To add further, the last time I went to Port Lympne was a year or so ago now, and possibly my last visit. I was very disappointed in the changes, the preponderance of the glamping and golf buggies, the closed-off areas etc. For example, I wanted to see the excellent Drill group- but since they have been moved you have to ignore a 'No Entry for Pedestrians' sign to get to see them on foot. What is the point of that? The safari trucks drive past so quickly the occupants hardly notice them. Because of the revised layout and where they live (in the old Elephant area) other interesting species like the Spectacled Bears cannot be viewed on foot either, and its hit or miss whether you get a glimpse of them from the truck. No chance to see them properly. I thought the Safari truck commentary was really poor too. It is as if they just don't care about the visitors so long as they get to see 'some' animals.

As to Aspinall Snr buying Whipsnade, yes I remember that. Just another zoo myth of the time as it turned out. In hindsight it might now be a safari park like most of PL, if it had happened...

 

[Gavialis]

As to Aspinall Snr buying Whipsnade, yes I remember that. Just another zoo myth of the time as it turned out. In hindsight it might now be a safari park like most of PL, if it had happened...

I'm don't think it was - Aspinall Sr wrote in one of the old IZNs that Lord Peyton (then ZSL Treasurer) had offered him Whipsnade. He refused on the grounds that his own parks were losing enough money on their own and he couldn't afford to subsidise a third. Agree that, whatever improvements he may have made, his son would have let Whipsnade sink even further than it already has...

What I'm curious about is the supposed ZSL/Aspinall feud. I know that JA never had much time for Solly Zuckerman (something he had in common with Durrell) but, again like Durrell, relations appear to have thawed by the 1990s. He certainly seemed more complimentary about David Jones (Director General around the closure crisis and the 'villain' in Molly Dineen's The Ark). Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I'm don't think it was - Aspinall Sr wrote in one of the old IZNs that Lord Peyton (then ZSL Treasurer) had offered him Whipsnade. He refused on the grounds that his own parks were losing enough money on their own and he couldn't afford to subsidise a third. Agree that, whatever improvements he may have made, his son would have let Whipsnade sink even further than it already has...

What I'm curious about is the supposed ZSL/Aspinall feud. I know that JA never had much time for Solly Zuckerman (something he had in common with Durrell) but, again like Durrell, relations appear to have thawed by the 1990s. He certainly seemed more complimentary about David Jones (Director General around the closure crisis and the 'villain' in Molly Dineen's The Ark). Does anyone know anything about this?

I've read some dark things about Zuckerman and his concept of zoos and general attitudes towards conservation.

Frankly he seemed to be a bit of a **** really.

All I can say is I'm thankful he never had a legacy.

 

[Gavialis]

I've read some dark things about Zuckerman and his concept of zoos and general attitudes towards conservation.

Frankly he seemed to be a bit of a **** really.

All I can say is I'm thankful he never had a legacy.

Quite. But I'm afraid he did have a legacy - many of the problems ZSL faces today stem from his time. The grandiose (some would say charmless) architectural statements (e.g. elephant house, Snowdon) he built replaced some really delightful, versatile Victorian buildings (e.g. the antelope house) and succeeded in pretty much bankrupting the society.

Meanwhile the animal collection was pared down without rhyme or reason and ZSL's reputation was trashed at a 1970s conference at which he denounced the importance of captive breeding and conservation and took several swipes at the likes of Durrell and Aspinall. Attendances plummeted and the zoo stagnated, culminating in the various closure crises in the 1990s.

How much ZSL has really recovered is up for debate.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Quite. But I'm afraid he did have a legacy - many of the problems ZSL faces today stem from his time. The grandiose (some would say charmless) architectural statements (e.g. elephant house, Snowdon) he built replaced some really delightful, versatile Victorian buildings (e.g. the antelope house) and succeeded in pretty much bankrupting the society.

Meanwhile the animal collection was pared down without rhyme or reason and ZSL's reputation was trashed at a 1970s conference at which he denounced the importance of captive breeding and conservation and took several swipes at the likes of Durrell and Aspinall. Attendances plummeted and the zoo stagnated, culminating in the various closure crises in the 1990s.

How much ZSL has really recovered is up for debate.

Well actually it does make sense considering the ZSL of today and its problems.

Thank you for sharing that as it is interesting for me to hear a bit more of this history.

I suppose one thing worth remembering is that for all Aspinall's many flaws (and by all of the accounts that I've read he could be a very unpleasant and sinister man) at least he wasn't as much of a **** as Zuckerman.

 

[lintworm]

John Aspinall really kickstarted the keeping and breeding of gorillas under non-sterile conditions. Up to then, they were kept under artificial conditions on tiled or concrete floors, and not given much chance to develop robust immune systems. Aspinall’s deep litter enclosures changed all this, his animals bred prolifically, and other collections followed suit.

Together with Jan Mager from Apenheul he really revolutionized the keeping of Gorilla in captivity, both had their own styles, but were great friends (until Mager castrated a young male to keep him in the group....).

 

[FBBird]

I'm not so sure about that - Aspinall Sr wrote in one of the old IZNs that Lord Peyton (then ZSL Treasurer) had offered him Whipsnade. He refused on the grounds that his own parks were losing enough money on their own and he couldn't afford to subsidise a third. Agree that, whatever improvements he may have made, his son would have let Whipsnade sink even further than it already has...

What I'm curious about is the supposed ZSL/Aspinall feud. I know that JA never had much time for Solly Zuckerman (something he had in common with Durrell) but, again like Durrell, relations appear to have thawed by the 1990s. He certainly seemed more complimentary about David Jones (Director General around the closure crisis and the 'villain' in Molly Dineen's The Ark). Does anyone know anything about this?

Well actually it does make sense considering the ZSL of today and its problems.

Thank you for sharing that as it is interesting for me to hear a bit more of this history.

I suppose one thing worth remembering is that for all Aspinall's many flaws (and by all of the accounts that I've read he could be a very unpleasant and sinister man) at least he wasn't as much of a **** as Zuckerman.

maybe all great people have a darker side. On balance Aspinall did more good than harm. ZSL blanked him until they needed his help to breed Gorillas.....