The Aspinall parks legacy

FBBird said:
maybe all great people have a darker side. On balance Aspinall did more good than harm. ZSL blanked him until they needed his help to breed Gorillas.....
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I think you are probably very right about that and I personally think this is generally the case.

Even Gerald Durrell had quite a substantial darker side to his personality didn't he ?

Although this is often glossed over and seldom talked about. I once met someone who knew him / worked for him and was told that although he was brilliant he could be very difficult in some ways.
 
Isn't it interesting to contrast these three characters and their respective legacies: Aspinall, Zuckerman and Durrell ?

Aspinall was a misanthrope who had absolutely no time for humanity and all the time in the world for animals (as long as they corresponded to some of his eccentric notions of "nobility" of course ) and conservation. His legacy produced many successes, many tragedies too but now seems to have crashed and burned.

Zuckerman was anthropocentric and appears to have had much more time for humanity than the natural world (how he reached this opinion after studying zoology and becoming a professor in the subject is beyond me) and no time for conservation. His legacy produced much of the current organizational mess that ZSL is in and not much besides.

Durrell loved both the natural world and seems to have loved people too (in his own idiosyncratic way) and of course revolutionized conservation. His legacy continues throughout the world and has saved countless species.

I think of the three of these men it was undoubtedly Gerald Durrell's vision and character that has produced the most enduring and positive legacy across the globe for conservation and society as a whole. Somehow I don't think it is any accident that he was the most human of the three either.
 
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lintworm said:
Together with Jan Mager from Apenheul he really revolutionized the keeping of Gorilla in captivity, both had their own styles, but were great friends (until Mager castrated a young male to keep him in the group....).
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Its worth noting that, rather like their reintroductions to Africa, the foundation of Aspinall's gorilla groups was by no means plain sailing. They lost several individuals early on, including the first male 'Kulu'- aged 12, he had been originally obtained from Basel Zoo as he was too old to be a playmate for their homebred handraised baby 'Goma'. Aspinall himself admitted 'Kulu's premature death probably set the 'colony' as he referred to it, back about 10 years as had 'Kulu' survived they would have been able to breed much earlier,- mid sixties rather than not until 1975. But of course after that they went from strength to strength. From then on he employed the offices of a full-time vet as well.

On the other hand Apenheul never lost any of their original imported youngsters afaik, though this was somewhat later.
 
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Gavialis said:
I'm don't think it was - Aspinall Sr wrote in one of the old IZNs that Lord Peyton (then ZSL Treasurer) had offered him Whipsnade. He refused on the grounds that his own parks were losing enough money on their own and he couldn't afford to subsidise a third. Agree that, whatever improvements he may have made, his son would have let Whipsnade sink even further than it already has...
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I don't see how he could have possibly taken over a third park with his own two already costing him a fortune to run. Possibly ZSL were in such desperate straits they just focused on him as a possible buyer of Whipsnade.
 
FBBird said:
maybe all great people have a darker side. On balance Aspinall did more good than harm. ZSL blanked him until they needed his help to breed Gorillas.....
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The turning point must have been circa 1977/8 then, when ZSL sent their single adult female to Howletts for mating, accepting she needed to live in a social group if she was to rear offspring, rather than in the unsuitable situation in London. I remember seeing Aspinall Snr going in with the group(Djoum's) she was living in at Howletts- all the other gorillas clustered round him and played, while Lomie stayed high-up out of the way. He told me it was because she wasn't used to that form of socialisation. And yes she reared her next baby born there, and her subsequent ones.
 
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Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I think you are probably very right about that and I personally think this is generally the case.

Even Gerald Durrell had quite a substantial darker side to his personality didn't he ?

Although this is often glossed over and seldom talked about. I once met someone who knew him / worked for him and was told that although he was brilliant he could be very difficult in some ways.
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You could probably add an element of self-deprecation to Durrell’s character as well.

If possible, get yourself a copy of the excellent biography of Durrell by Douglas Botting. I came away from it thinking what could have been achieved if he’d lived longer and took care of himself better!
 
Panthera1981 said:
You could probably add an element of self-deprecation to Durrell’s character as well.

If possible, get yourself a copy of the excellent biography of Durrell by Douglas Botting. I came away from it thinking what could have been achieved if he’d lived longer and took care of himself better!
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Oh definitely he was much more humble than the other two that I have mentioned.

I did used to have a copy of this book and it was a brilliant read indeed (I think it is where I must have read about Zuckerman). I think that had he lived longer there is no telling what more could have been achieved but even so his legacy is incredible.
 
Gavialis said:
Quite. But I'm afraid he did have a legacy - many of the problems ZSL faces today stem from his time. The grandiose (some would say charmless) architectural statements (e.g. elephant house, Snowdon) he built replaced some really delightful, versatile Victorian buildings (e.g. the antelope house)
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There's a lovely bit in 'The Goodies and the Beanstalk' in which the villain of the week reveals that he is a former zookeeper and that he used to be in charge of the Snowdon Aviary. Graeme makes a sympathetic noise in response and the villain says "Yes, I know."
 
Aspinall Snr always seems/seemed to be held in high regard by the staff I spoke to on my numerous visits. They certainly strived to keep PL a going concern. The keepers always seemed to dread Damian’s impromptu visits however, and the after effects with which they had to deal with!
 
Panthera1981 said:
Aspinall Snr always seems/seemed to be held in high regard by the staff I spoke to on my numerous visits. They certainly strived to keep PL a going concern. The keepers always seemed to dread Damian’s impromptu visits however, and the after effects with which they had to deal with!
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Exactly the sentiment I've always heard as well.

~Thylo
 
Panthera1981 said:
Aspinall Snr always seems/seemed to be held in high regard by the staff I spoke to on my numerous visits. They certainly strived to keep PL a going concern. The keepers always seemed to dread Damian’s impromptu visits however, and the after effects with which they had to deal with!
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What after effects?
 
ThylacineAlive said:
Well I'm sure they're not happy with their charges getting dumped into the wild to die all the time. Or with the relentless anti zoo campaigning he does while simultaneously playing with baby animals and other such nonsense.

~Thylo
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Fair point, believe it or not those things didn't come to mind when I wrote the comment (though they should have).

I was wondering whether Panthera's comment alluded more to interpersonal and organizational type after-effects.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Fair point, believe it or not those things didn't come to mind when I wrote the comment (though they should have).

I was wondering whether Panthera's comment alluded more to interpersonal and organizational type after-effects.
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I once visited Howletts, the day after one of these particular visits (or "D-days" as the keepers called them!) and enjoyed a long, informal talk with one of the elephant keepers. They apologised that not all the herd had been let out as some were still suffering the after-effects of one of Damian's impromptu visits with a group of friends - the party had fed the herd, amongst other things, copious amounts of cheese and chocolate!

One of the cat keepers also noted that Aspinall Snr would be "turning in his grave" if he found out the collection was keeping meerkats - which they were at Port Lympne!
 
Panthera1981 said:
I once visited Howletts, the day after one of these particular visits (or "D-days" as the keepers called them!) and enjoyed a long, informal talk with one of the elephant keepers. They apologised that not all the herd had been let out as some were still suffering the after-effects of one of Damian's impromptu visits with a group of friends - the party had fed the herd, amongst other things, copious amounts of cheese and chocolate!

One of the cat keepers also noted that Aspinall Snr would be "turning in his grave" if he found out the collection was keeping meerkats - which they were at Port Lympne!
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"D-days" ! LOL ! I Love it , they must be harrowing visits indeed ! :D

Chocolates and cheese !? o_O :confused: That sounds like a very healthy meal for elephants ! Maybe he was preparing them for their eventual "reintroduction" to the wild ? :rolleyes:

Well, it seems like that is another thing in Aspinall Snr's favour and against DA in my opinion as I am not very fond of them being in zoos either.
 
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Certainly, along with gorillas, African elephants have been a success - at Howletts in particular. It’s a shame the same couldn’t be said for the collection’s Asian elephants. I’ve never quite fathomed what factors conspired against the group, or was it just rotten luck?

Regardless, I know of nowhere (in the UK certainly) that, back in the day, could keep both a large group of both African AND Asian elephants. The feeding costs alone must’ve been astronomical!

It really is such a wasted area at Port Lympne now. :(
 
Panthera1981 said:
Certainly, along with gorillas, African elephants have been a success - at Howletts in particular. It’s a shame the same couldn’t be said for the collection’s Asian elephants. I’ve never quite fathomed what factors conspired against the group, or was it just rotten luck?
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I believe it was a combination of bad luck, unsuitability of the hilly, exposed site at Port Lympne and the dreaded EEHV. They had several births (I was there one day when one cow was in labour but think the calf was stillborn) but they were either stillborn or survived only a very short time. The one bull calf that survived longer finally succumbed to EEHV and that was the final nail for them as it were, and they dispersed the group into European zoos (none stayed in the UK from memory).

As to the Africans at Howletts, yes, they are a successful group. But what is the object of breeding there? Have any being relocated to Africa?

Incidentally I have also heard the 'chocolate and cheese' story but in the context of the Gorillas- maybe it related to both...!
 
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Pertinax said:
I believe it was a combination of bad luck, unsuitability of the hilly, exposed site at Port Lympne and the dreaded EEHV.
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The Africans didn’t last long at PL either for similar reasons I assume? Regarding EEHV, weren’t both groups mixed before the Asians transferred to PL? And how and where did Aspinall Snr manage to acquire his elephants? (I’m assuming through gambling profits)

On a separate note, does anyone know who’s the matriarch at Howletts now since Massa died?
 
Truly bizarre ! o_O Fromages for endangered species :confused: but I actually don't think it is inconceivable given how eccentric both Aspinalls were / are.

Perhaps the Malayan tapir are given fine wine :rolleyes:
 
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