The Australian Rhino Project - South African Import (Discussion)

[Zorro]

I’m glad their stance has changed on that with several privately owned zoos joining the Southern white rhinoceros breeding programme in recent years.

With 35 new founders arriving from South Africa in the next few years, there will be a significant surplus of rhinos in the region (especially bulls) and the region would be extremely lucky to have your zoo join the region as a new holder.

With the immense knowledge and experience of your team; plus the space you have available, Darling Downs Zoo would be an asset to the breeding programme.

I don't believe you seeing the full picture here, yes "some" private zoo/s were allowed to hold old stock from the pre-import animals BUT my understanding/take is that NO private zoos could be part of the new importation of the new animals?
I would have thought any zoo who are members of the ZAA and who would support the project would be welcome of the inclusion. I really can't see a valid reason why these members would be excluded?.

 

[Zoofan15]

I don't believe you seeing the full picture here, yes "some" private zoo/s were allowed to hold old stock from the pre-import animals BUT my understanding/take is that NO private zoos could be part of the new importation of the new animals?
I would have thought any zoo who are members of the ZAA and who would support the project would be welcome of the inclusion. I really can't see a valid reason why these members would be excluded?.

Yes, you’re right. I assumed @Steve Robinson was referring to joining the ZAA Southern white rhinoceros breeding programme; but looking back at his post, it’s clear it referred to the Australian Rhino Project.

I agree with your comments and that of @steveroberts that it makes sense to accept any offers from ZAA accredited zoos to support the project, as this would maximise the numbers of founders that could be imported.

While I’m not suggesting this is the rationale behind this rule, it will however ensure better use of the 35 founders is made with regards to reproduction. There’s only so many rhinos that can be bred and there will now be places at private zoos that may otherwise have been allocated to imported rhinos.

Mogo Wildlife Park (as @steveroberts mentioned), have the capacity to hold a large number of rhinos and could potentially play an invaluable role in housing large numbers of first generation offspring of the imported founders a decade from now.

 

[Zorro]

Yes, you’re right. I assumed @Steve Robinson was referring to joining the ZAA Southern white rhinoceros breeding programme; but looking back at his post, it’s clear it referred to the Australian Rhino Project.

I agree with your comments and that of @steveroberts that it makes sense to accept any offers from ZAA accredited zoos to support the project, as this would maximise the numbers of founders that could be imported.

While I’m not suggesting this is the rationale behind this rule, it will however ensure better use of the 35 founders is made with regards to reproduction. There’s only so many rhinos that can be bred and there will now be places at private zoos that may otherwise have been allocated to imported rhinos.

Mogo Wildlife Park (as @steveroberts mentioned), have the capacity to hold a large number of rhinos and could potentially play an invaluable role in housing large numbers of first generation offspring of the imported founders a decade from now.

Lets not forget that Australia zoo has huge holdings for white rhino I am sure they also could soak up a few new founder’s but touching on @steveroberts comment there could be a slight smell of elitism creeping into this

 

[Zoofan15]

Lets not forget that Australia zoo has huge holdings for white rhino I am sure they also could soak up a few new founder’s but touching on @steveroberts comment there could be a slight smell of elitism creeping in with this

Australia Zoo would benefit from an additional breeding bull. If there’s a recommendation Hamilton Zoo ceased breeding on the basis their rhinos are over represented, then surely DJ at Australia Zoo is close to being sufficiently represented through his 3.2 offspring (all surviving), which includes a daughter in a breeding herd at Altina.

Caballe similarly has produced eight offspring (3.2 surviving) and is now 27 years old.

Within the next decade I’m confident we’ll see a new cow transferred in (and hopefully a bull) to join the breeding herd which also includes Inyeti (2005) and Kibibi (2012), the latter of which is from a poorly represented line due to the high mortality of calves at Monarto.

 

[Zoofan15]

Orana while I know only the basics about its story I think I'm being accurate by saying has had a long 30-35 year (possibly longer) legacy with their work with Sth White Rhinos' and wanted to acknowledge that, so I hope with this joint-partnership in the Rhino import project that Orana will get as optimal a new imported group of Sth White Rhinos' as they are asking for.

Orana Wildlife Park has held Southern white rhinoceros since 1986, so 36 years and counting. Unlike Hamilton Zoo, they’ve never been highly successful in breeding this species with two females failing to conceive; another producing only one calf in her lifetime; and another dying after falling into the exhibit moat attempting to escape the mating attentions of the bull. Only one female (Tamu) has to date bred more than one calf - producing two surviving calves and a third that died shortly after birth.

The import from South Africa will be their chance to form a successful breeding herd. My assumption is they’ll receive two bulls from the import (one breeding bull; one stimulant bull) and three or four cows. It’s likely they’d breed from Tamu again - neither her brother or two sons are in breeding herds and together, the four of them are the only descendants of her parents (one of which was wild born).

 

[Zoofan15]

I wouldn't rule out Monarto as a potential destination. Not only are they the closest facility to Perth, but the new facilities within Wild Africa will give them the opportunity to hold additional bulls (as is the plan with the African import).

In the meantime, Bakari will be a welcome addition considering they theoretically only have one proven male at the moment and perhaps the addition of another potential breeding bull will bolster their chances within their dwindling program.

Additionally, Monarto has the stock to send a female or two back to Perth, which at the same time would also alleviate a lot of the potential estrus suppression occurring amongst their current cows.

I’m really excited for the plethora of opportunities the imports from the Australian Rhino Import will create within the region - for both re-mixing non-performing herds; and providing mates for non-paired individuals.

Monarto’s other bull (Ibutho) is not genetically valuable as he comes from the well represented San Diego line; but he’s played a valuable role as a stimulant bull and Bakari could well do the same (if not going in as a breeding bull).

Sending a pair or even trio of well represented or non-viable cows from within the region to Perth could be a viable option. I’d personally choose Hamilton’s cows: Moesha (likely non-viable and well represented); Kito (well represented); and Imani (behavioural non-breeder). Combined with Zahra (2020) approaching breeding age, this would give Hamilton a clean slate to receive 2-3 cows from the upcoming import.

 

[Luke899]

If the rhino import ever happens that is...

 

[Zoofan15]

If the rhino import ever happens that is...

Once the import (by Orana Wildlife Park) occurs, they’ll be a delay of 12 months as the rhinos will initially quarantine in New Zealand. It is still in the plans, but imports can take a long time to arrange.

In the meantime, there’s been several transfers as of late. Dubbo and Monarto have swapped bulls; a bull has been loaned to Altina; and a transfer of Hamilton’s younger bull to Orana is planned. Their only viable cow hasn’t produced offspring in six years, so it’d be preferable for her to breed again soon.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

If the rhino import ever happens that is...

Given how long it has been since first announced it must be extreme slow dive. Quite probably when they get around to it all white rhino have disappeared from Southern Africa. (Am I being sarcastic, .... Hell no!). It is just getting beyond the absurd. ZAA seems to lack the determination nor business acumen or lobbying power at Govt. Level to deal with this challenge.

 

[Luke899]

ZAA seems to lack the determination nor business acumen or lobbying power

... or funds? Its not cheap getting these fatties over here

Although, I'd like to see them get here before I turn 100 and all our rhinos die. They need to hurry up. Your either committed to getting these rhinos or your not. We've built all these enclosures for them and they've remained empty for half a decade.

 

[Tiger91]

I wouldn't rule out Monarto as a potential destination. Not only are they the closest facility to Perth, but the new facilities within Wild Africa will give them the opportunity to hold additional bulls (as is the plan with the African import).

In the meantime, Bakari will be a welcome addition considering they theoretically only have one proven male at the moment and perhaps the addition of another potential breeding bull will bolster their chances within their dwindling program.

Additionally, Monarto has the stock to send a female or two back to Perth, which at the same time would also alleviate a lot of the potential estrus suppression occurring amongst their current cows.

Australia Zoo could be another destination, im not sure how they are currently sitting but they have had some breeding success, and may be on the look out for a new bull.

We really need to start looking at how we keep our rhinos and start doing better. We know that young (around 12 months) get chased away from there mother and find another unrelated female to virtually hang around after weaning for safety and company. The cows tend to tolerate these satellite young. Why are we not doing similar with our white rhino. Our breeding program and struggling, between behavioural non breeding and young females appearing to die early due to injury. Something is up with our husbandry that isnt seeing breeding results. While it is probably top notch for caring for the rhino itself it isnt being conducive to breeding.

I have always wondered if the zoos are using oestrus suppression in place of contraceptives. It makes things easier, and more manageable but seems to be causing issues with breeding.

 

[Steve Robinson]

Given how long it has been since first announced it must be extreme slow dive. Quite probably when they get around to it all white rhino have disappeared from Southern Africa. (Am I being sarcastic, .... Hell no!). It is just getting beyond the absurd. ZAA seems to lack the determination nor business acumen or lobbying power at Govt. Level to deal with this challenge.

I know that everybody is getting frustrated at the glacial progress of this very important import but it needs to be said that there are many forces at play here.

Firstly, the evolving position of the government of the RSA on exports is not giving anyone a lot of confidence at the moment.

Secondly, it is incorrect to apportion blame to ZAA on the slow progress. ZAA are not an animal importer and can only make recommendations to members. ZAA has no financial stake holding in this project - nor should it. It is purely a member based industry organisation. The wheels have to be driven by the members themselves. I am not privy to all details of this project but I do know that there have been large amounts of money raised in the past which have yet to be put to use - if they can all be found.

Thirdly, the recently reported financial woes at Orana can't be filling anyone with confidence. Without Orana this project is dead in the water. I am guessing that it could be possible that ZAA
may be able to make up some of that shortfall with a donation from their conservation fund - there's a few bob in there. But that's only a guess from me! And that won't speed up the actual process.

And think about it - if you all are frustrated by the slow progress spare a thought for how frustrated the participants are!

 

[Luke899]

I know that everybody is getting frustrated at the glacial progress of this very important import

Its worse then glacial, it's tectonic...

 

[MRJ]

I am guessing that it could be possible that ZAA may be able to make up some of that shortfall with a donation from their conservation fund - there's a few bob in there. But that's only a guess from me! And that won't speed up the actual process.

I hope not! There is no conservation value in importing white rhinos into Australia. They are only NT and money would be much more usefully spent in range countries.

 

[Luke899]

I hope not! There is no conservation value in importing white rhinos into Australia. They are only NT and money would be much more usefully spent in range countries.

Would much rather establish a large insurance population in Australia than send money to countries where corrupt officials will line their pockets!!

 

[Steve Robinson]

I hope not! There is no conservation value in importing white rhinos into Australia. They are only NT and money would be much more usefully spent in range countries.

I don't disagree in principle and would like to see much more money being honestly spent on some of our own species.

However, I also feel that we do have some responsibility to assist some more endangered species from other countries as well - once again, providing we can avoid the corruption that seems to go hand in hand with some of these projects. Including the one under discussion here.

 

[MRJ]

I don't disagree in principle and would like to see much more money being honestly spent on some of our own species.

However, I also feel that we do have some responsibility to assist some more endangered species from other countries as well - once again, providing we can avoid the corruption that seems to go hand in hand with some of these projects. Including the one under discussion here.

Of course we do. But we do not have to import hundreds of animals into this country to do so. Especially those zoos that are focused on exotic species. It gives them the chance to associate their exhibits with conservation programs in range countries.

But I'd challenge you to nominate an exotic species that could benefit in the wild from a breeding program in Australia.

As for the white rhino, I believe there are more than 1000 animals in captivity around the world, more than enough for a genetically viable population without resorting to taking more animals from the wild (or is the proposed import from a breeding establishment?)

As an aside, Moonlit Sanctuary does support a program overseas, the Begawan Foundation in their work with threatened birds, particularly the critically endangered Bali starling.

 

[ZooNews2024]

Of course we do. But we do not have to import hundreds of animals into this country to do so. Especially those zoos that are focused on exotic species. It gives them the chance to associate their exhibits with conservation programs in range countries.

But I'd challenge you to nominate an exotic species that could benefit in the wild from a breeding program in Australia.

As for the white rhino, I believe there are more than 1000 animals in captivity around the world, more than enough for a genetically viable population without resorting to taking more animals from the wild (or is the proposed import from a breeding establishment?)

As an aside, Moonlit Sanctuary does support a program overseas, the Begawan Foundation in their work with threatened birds, particularly the critically endangered Bali starling.

Referring to the above which I emboldened. If you dont mean specifically Australia, and in the wider context meant a spp benefitting from a breeding programme outside its natural range countries, there must indeed be many, many examples, from the early days of the Per David's Deer and Przewalski's Horse to much more recent ones. I would have thought that Australian zoos could be involved and succeed in such too.

 

[Steve Robinson]

As for the white rhino, I believe there are more than 1000 animals in captivity around the world, more than enough for a genetically viable population without resorting to taking more animals from the wild (or is the proposed import from a breeding establishment?)

These posts should probably be moved to a more relevant thread - mods?

The Rhinos proposed for importation come from the ranch of a family in the RSA. I have no idea how many are captive born or wild caught.

However, it is important to keep in mind that, although the importing zoos have to drive the import, it has needed ZAA endorsement to get to this stage and I would expect that the TAG convenors etc would have established the worth of importing these animals and guaranteed the legality of their source before endorsing the import.

 

[Steve Robinson]

Including the one under discussion here.

Have just re-read this and feel that my words could have been better chosen. Thus I withdraw this sentence and replace it with - "Parts of this project have been under a bit of a cloud for some time".