Twycross Zoo The Baby Orang
- Thread starter Jane Doe
- Start date
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this information, much appreciated. They state that the baby died after sustaining injuries overnight, and how may I ask did the poor little sole sustain these injuries?
I agree that when news regarding a much publicised birth is made and if the particular animal does not survive (for any reason whatsoever) a mere acknowledgement of untimely passing would be in place. Whether we should all be party to exact cause of death I somehow feel uneasy with.
What people feel may or may not have happened is their prerogative to state / air on this forum ... et cetera (it is a free country after all). However when and if one volunteers statements suggestive / to the effect anything untoward may have happened and not providing any concrete evidence / or further details as to why, how, when and where, they are in my view barking up the wrong tree. It may even be potentially slanderous.
I cannot decide / nor would I like to judge whether any of us have their own agenda on this. If for any or other reason one is party to full details and something would be wholly wrong than it is for the relevant authorities to deal with it and one should report it. Whether in an individual case like the recent orang birth is that I honestly do not know.
For sure, TWZ has had its fair criticism in the past as to how management ran affairs and I am not the best party to judge or decide whether Ms. Redrobe is anything different to that. What I will say is that I would have thought and felt more at ease with a candidate not in any way attached to the old managerial elite and whom would be more at ease with the old guard of experienced zoo keeping fraternity that once worked within TWZ's grounds (this is not taking anything away from the current zoo keeping fraternity over there, just that a good team is a good mix of old and new ...).
What people feel may or may not have happened is their prerogative to state / air on this forum ... et cetera (it is a free country after all). However when and if one volunteers statements suggestive / to the effect anything untoward may have happened and not providing any concrete evidence / or further details as to why, how, when and where, they are in my view barking up the wrong tree. It may even be potentially slanderous.
I cannot decide / nor would I like to judge whether any of us have their own agenda on this. If for any or other reason one is party to full details and something would be wholly wrong than it is for the relevant authorities to deal with it and one should report it. Whether in an individual case like the recent orang birth is that I honestly do not know.
For sure, TWZ has had its fair criticism in the past as to how management ran affairs and I am not the best party to judge or decide whether Ms. Redrobe is anything different to that. What I will say is that I would have thought and felt more at ease with a candidate not in any way attached to the old managerial elite and whom would be more at ease with the old guard of experienced zoo keeping fraternity that once worked within TWZ's grounds (this is not taking anything away from the current zoo keeping fraternity over there, just that a good team is a good mix of old and new ...).
I still think just saying "It would never have happened in the old days" at that point was unjustified. It's quite possible for a very young animal to die for many reasons. I hate all this accusation without backing it up that goes on.
I am extremely sad about what happened and do desperately wish things had happened differently.
I am extremely sad about what happened and do desperately wish things had happened differently.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that if you knew exactly how the baby orang "sustained injuries overnight" you would agree that it could have been prevented, and that it would not have happened in the old days.
Not knowing who is in charge of that section anymore. Orangs are solitary animals but the new bosses have this thing about every animal must be in a group well with some animals it wont work.
I think I have an idea of what happened and yes I am going to say it again it would NOT have happened in the old days, because in those days the keepers knew the animals they cared for and it was more than just a job to them, the animals they cared for were part of their family, for instance the keepers knew the animals likes and dislikes.
OK I keep harping on to the old days but Twycross had always had a good track record when it came to orang births now taking into account Kibria is a good mother then HOW DID THE BABY SUSTAIN INJURIES THROUGH THE NIGHT ?
I think I have an idea of what happened and yes I am going to say it again it would NOT have happened in the old days, because in those days the keepers knew the animals they cared for and it was more than just a job to them, the animals they cared for were part of their family, for instance the keepers knew the animals likes and dislikes.
OK I keep harping on to the old days but Twycross had always had a good track record when it came to orang births now taking into account Kibria is a good mother then HOW DID THE BABY SUSTAIN INJURIES THROUGH THE NIGHT ?
Are the orangs at Twycross group housed or just individually (as he male with female and female with baby on their own)?
hippophilic
Member
during the day the orangs are mixed though I believe Batu was separated from his girls a lot of the time during nov/dec/jan with baby being so young, and at night they sleep in their own separate areas for alone time except from mums with offspring.
yep i did mean the shelves as there is 3 different levels of shelf, i just wasnt sure as dont they ussually nest high
i have to admit im no animal expert, just someone who has gone to twycross about bi-weekly for the last 10 years and proposed to his wife there
see thread 4 for the other comments about todays visit
I have my own theory about what happened, if I'm right I completely agree it could have been prevented, my argument was with saying "It would never have happened in the old days" without any explanation of what might have happened when babies do die due to no one's fault.
I find the rosy picture of the old Twycross hard to accept seeing the raw deal their apes, particularly the chimps were dealt by the 'old days'.
If the orangutans had a better enclosure they could be managed better, pity they didn't build them one in the 'old days'.
This is a particularly nasty quote to me. Being a keeper is a highly contested job, many people have spent years trying to get there, and many have degrees and years of training, for which they are often paid little more than a cashier at maccys.
It is never 'just a job', if it was then they'd dive to something easier pretty quick!
More than once whilst at Twycross we've found ourselves watching the chimps, gorillas or orangutans with an off-duty member of staff or someone on maternity leave, I can tell you no one comes in and hangs round our photocopiers whilst on maternity leave.
Very well put.
Perhaps I put it down wrong, I know very well that Twycross had its problems in the old days with enclosures, orang house has always been a big issue, I personally think instead of building another gorilla house they should have reduced the numbers and built an orang house instead but that was just my opinion. I have never been a keeper but I know that the old ones never had any qualifications I don't think, what I do know is some of the keepers started out on the YTS scheme, but as one told me their qualification started the day they started work at the zoo.
I know Twycross had its problems, but if you knew Miss Badham and Miss Evans like I did then you would understand how they thought. Both of them were in the army in 2nd world war and when they started Twycross they were the only women in charge of a zoo, if I remember right they were one of the first zoo 's to try and re-introduce chimps to the wild but don't quote me on it.
I know keepers that used to work at Twycross they still visit to see the animals they used to look after as they are a big part of their life and extended family, but I also know people and ex-keepers that are ashamed of how the zoo has gone, all the favourite animals have gone giraffes, lions, tigers, sea lions and camels and people that used to go often say it has been spoilt and that is just the everyday person.
I am saddened to see Twycross Zoo the way it is being treated, OK I am not denying it need to be brought into the 21st century but in my eyes Boardman walked all over Twycross Zoo, Miss Badham memory, all she saw was pound signs and now Redrobe going on telly and the PG Tips adverts were brought up after 40 years saying "taking the baby's from the wild and making them dress up she would not do that" of course it would not be done now that was years ago, and then there is a statement on their Webb site saying something completely different.
OK waiting for everyone to start on me.
I know Twycross had its problems, but if you knew Miss Badham and Miss Evans like I did then you would understand how they thought. Both of them were in the army in 2nd world war and when they started Twycross they were the only women in charge of a zoo, if I remember right they were one of the first zoo 's to try and re-introduce chimps to the wild but don't quote me on it.
I know keepers that used to work at Twycross they still visit to see the animals they used to look after as they are a big part of their life and extended family, but I also know people and ex-keepers that are ashamed of how the zoo has gone, all the favourite animals have gone giraffes, lions, tigers, sea lions and camels and people that used to go often say it has been spoilt and that is just the everyday person.
I am saddened to see Twycross Zoo the way it is being treated, OK I am not denying it need to be brought into the 21st century but in my eyes Boardman walked all over Twycross Zoo, Miss Badham memory, all she saw was pound signs and now Redrobe going on telly and the PG Tips adverts were brought up after 40 years saying "taking the baby's from the wild and making them dress up she would not do that" of course it would not be done now that was years ago, and then there is a statement on their Webb site saying something completely different.
OK waiting for everyone to start on me.
I think these comments are more reasoned than some you have made previously.
We all have memories of how much better 'our zoos' were in the past- i for one am always criticising Marwell & London for their diminishing collections, so it would be wrong of me to deny someone the right to question the direction Twycross has taken. If that is what you are doing, no harm can be done.
We all have memories of how much better 'our zoos' were in the past- i for one am always criticising Marwell & London for their diminishing collections, so it would be wrong of me to deny someone the right to question the direction Twycross has taken. If that is what you are doing, no harm can be done.
Thats the best written statement i have heard yet, if you had started off with that no-one would have a go
personally i have to admit that i never knew mrs badham or evans, we have been visiting the zoo bi-weekly for around 10 years, i proposed to my now wife there, but we are wondering about renewing our passes again, its more gut feeling about the zoo than anything else
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
They are and were 2 people that I am proud to say that I had the honour and pleasure of meeting,even if Molly did nearly run me over one day because she got distracted say hello to Danny(A Chimpanzee that she hand reared for those that don't know)!!