Anybody concerned that the pandemic could spell the end of the zoo industry, especially considering a massive second wave seems to be on the horizon, which will force another massive shutdown?
The End of the Zoo Industry?
- Thread starter SharkFinatic
- Start date
I understand your concerns, but my answer is: it would not. Zoos have survived wartime and many crazy things, and many of those zoos are still open today and running. If a war couldnt trample individual zoos, how would another "world-stopper" stamp out a whole industry?
I would echo what @ZooBinh says. In 1939, Germany invaded Poland. Their target, naturally was Warsaw, to gain control of the country. Warsaw held out until late September. Then, underground militia continued to try and disrupt the German forces. During the invasion of Poland, the zoo had been bombed, killing, among many others, an elephant and a giraffe. When the Germans entered the city, they sent all the 'useful' animals to an animal park in Germany and shot (almost) all the others. However, the director of the zoo was in the underground militia, who also hid Jews threatened by the Germans. He agreed to take in over 300 Jews and hide them in the zoo, where the occupying forces would never think to check. They didn't, and they were all saved.
The animals returned to the zoo slowly, and the zoo survived, along with bits and pieces of its architecture. It survived, despite having been bombed, having all its animals shot, having half of its keepers arrested. I reckon these institutions are tougher than they look. Though we are not facing a war right now, we are facing a similar threat. Besides, can you imagine London, or Berlin, or Vienna without a zoo. Countless cities will not be complete without zoos. Zoos will survive, whether it takes vast swathes of donations to keep them up and running.
The animals returned to the zoo slowly, and the zoo survived, along with bits and pieces of its architecture. It survived, despite having been bombed, having all its animals shot, having half of its keepers arrested. I reckon these institutions are tougher than they look. Though we are not facing a war right now, we are facing a similar threat. Besides, can you imagine London, or Berlin, or Vienna without a zoo. Countless cities will not be complete without zoos. Zoos will survive, whether it takes vast swathes of donations to keep them up and running.
The zoo industry will survive, no worries, there will be however single zoos that will close, mostly ones that were already in bad financial condition (that can be really painful like Living Coasts or good riddance with some of the really bad ones). When individual zoos ask for help the results are in some cases extraordinary. Also be aware that many zoos, especially in C Europe, are (partly) owned/funded by cities or governments this gives them an extra bit of security and most large zoos will have specific buffers in place to deal with extraordinary events. For sure it hurts and it will significantly affect future investment at many zoos for years, but the zoo industry will survive.
And for the record: the US is still in the first wave and nobody can predict these second waves reliably, it all depends on government policies in place and people listening to them (that said how parts of the US are handling covid is a recipe for disaster). Data from continental Europe doesn't show any indication for large second waves under current management, even with most things re-opening.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Two thoughts on the arguments put forth:
1. A second wave during the slow visitation season of winter will not have the same effect as the spring closings have. This first period of closings though has been very hard on our facilities' financial health.
2. Comparing the current situation to WW2 is a false comparison, imo. This is not 1942. Economics have changed. Public recreation culture has changed. Zoos have changed. Only the dictatorships remain unchanged. The lengthy closures during this serious recession and the continued COVID restrictions are unprecedented. What will happen in a year from now is, as they say, a crap shoot
1. A second wave during the slow visitation season of winter will not have the same effect as the spring closings have. This first period of closings though has been very hard on our facilities' financial health.
2. Comparing the current situation to WW2 is a false comparison, imo. This is not 1942. Economics have changed. Public recreation culture has changed. Zoos have changed. Only the dictatorships remain unchanged. The lengthy closures during this serious recession and the continued COVID restrictions are unprecedented. What will happen in a year from now is, as they say, a crap shoot
Of course this is absolutely true, but to some extent wouldn't a second wave be the final nail in the coffin for some? I doubt any zoos have ever relied on the winter season before, but surely if some ever do it would be now?
I think that the large zoos will generally be safe (there might be a couple of near misses, nothing more in my opinion), although they might have to cut down on spending on conservation for a bit, especially zoos that donate a significant amount. I sadly don't think the small roadside zoos will drop in number especially either - they often have double purposes and the areas in which they are located are fairly untroubled by the virus speaking generally. Sadly, I think it will be the niche but very pleasant collections that won't survive, as exemplified by Living Coasts. LC is a good example of the kind of collection I mean - relatively high running costs, relatively low income and a relatively niche perspective. I hope I am wrong, but I don't see some of the smaller yet nicer collections getting through this crisis, and the damage done by this virus is not over yet - nor will it be over for some years to come.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
I'll add that the First Wave is by no means over. As zoos and restaurants reopen it will just ramp up the infections again. The so-called second wave is expected in the Fall. If the public gets frightened they will not go to public places like zoos.
As to zoos being re-born after a war: after a war there is often a national pride that supports the reclaiming of our institutions. If COVID19 is suppressed with vaccine, will there be the same passion to rebuild and restore?
Many zoos, even large zoos, have cut staff, cut conservation funds, cut programs. They may get bailed out once. They will not get bailed out twice. One way or another things will be different by 2022. I do not believe that the large zoos seriously fear collapse but expect a major dialing back of ambitions and new programs for several years.
As to zoos being re-born after a war: after a war there is often a national pride that supports the reclaiming of our institutions. If COVID19 is suppressed with vaccine, will there be the same passion to rebuild and restore?
Many zoos, even large zoos, have cut staff, cut conservation funds, cut programs. They may get bailed out once. They will not get bailed out twice. One way or another things will be different by 2022. I do not believe that the large zoos seriously fear collapse but expect a major dialing back of ambitions and new programs for several years.
Maybe a slight segue but if nothing else, the last three months have shown us that the Greatest Generation truly deserves that title. They fought World War II for six years, coming straight from a decade-long depression. We didn’t last a couple of months of not being allowed to go to the pub before completely giving up.
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Apparently they were more successful at facing adversity than at grandparenting
Apparently they were more successful at facing adversity than at grandparenting
Well. I imagine trying to raise Baby Boomers was a whole new level of suffering.
Well. I imagine trying to raise Baby Boomers was a whole new level of suffering.
Not sure this thread was made as joke thread but might as well carry on:
I think it was actually watching multiple episodes of 'Gilligan's Island' and 'Land of the Lost' that finally sunk them.
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Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
In Europe we often look toward the Czech Republic, for the reasons that they are further on in the curve than many other countries, and that Czechs opened zoos as leisure amenities very early with large gate quotas. There has been continued steady relaxation since, with pre-Covid levels of visitor attendance numbers now being experienced.
If, as you say, opening zoos has 'ramped up' the infections again, it should be showing in CZ first. Could you list some links?
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Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Every country is not the same in how they are behaving and those who have been in lock down for months behave differently from those who have been in lock down for weeks. Sweden claimed they did not need restrictions because the Swedish people are so well behaved. In the USA people have been shot over mask wearing. And in the USA in states where restrictions have been loosened or dropped and people began acting like the pandemic is over, infection rates have climbed
Global report: six US states report most ever new coronavirus cases
Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Further, the epidemic in the Czech Republic never reached the levels it has in the UK, Belgium, France and elsewhere.Why look there for predicting the UK's future?
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I wasn't...
- but it still doesn't stop us from watching what is going on elsewhere.
It was you who said as zoos re-open infections would 'ramp up'.
All I asked, was for you to post a link to where this had happened.... in Belgium or France maybe, as you quote them. Zoos in those countries have been open for long-enough now for any 'ramp-up' in infections due to their opening, to be noticeable.
An increase in infections doesn't need to be 'due to' zoos to mean that it is necessary to close them again, though. If there's 100 cases of live virus circulating in the community, perhaps the marginal risk of zoos being open isn't enormous. If there's 10,000, though...
No. Zoos are too much of an institution to go down that easily, they've been through worse. Yeah, zoos have plenty of critics, but the majority of people still go to them, and in recent years some zoos and aquariums have been getting record numbers of visitors. If a significant zoo is at high risk of closing I bet a lot of people will do their best to support it. I'm sure some zoos will close, and many more zoos will have to cut back on programs and expansions. And if a lot of zoos do close, more zoos are going to open up to replace them when things get better. But zoos as a whole aren't going away any time soon.
And given that most zoos are largely outdoors, I bet a lot of people are going to view them as safer options than museums, theaters, or restaurants. And in the US, the educational aspect of zoos might be especially attractive right now. Schools here closed for a long time and no one is sure what the situation is going to be like in the fall.
And given that most zoos are largely outdoors, I bet a lot of people are going to view them as safer options than museums, theaters, or restaurants. And in the US, the educational aspect of zoos might be especially attractive right now. Schools here closed for a long time and no one is sure what the situation is going to be like in the fall.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I didnt say it was 'due to' - so to state this below my reply, is miss-quoting again! Every time it seems...
If you read the above it was Zooplantman who said - As zoos reopen it will just ramp up the infections again.
ALL I did, was to ask for the evidence...!
I think @CGSwans was referring to the above excerpt. I don't disagree that some countries have sustained long periods of zoos being open as of yet without a new spike (e.g Germany, the Netherlands etc.) but of course if a new spike in cases were to occur anywhere, I doubt zoos would be to blame - rather the other places that open up in parallel with them such as high street shops here in the UK. I think that's what he was saying.
This is true now, as we've already seen with the groundswell of support for Chester. But the longer a crisis rolls on the more unthinkable things tend to happen. In most Western countries, at least, people are either still working or still receiving government financial support that is in many cases more generous than is usually the case (many Americans and Australians are in fact earning more in government support than in their regular jobs at present). However, that won't stay the case. It's one thing for people to open their wallets now in support of a zoo, and quite another in a year from now when not only are they poorer themselves, but they've also seen cafes, restaurants, retailers, movie theatres and museums they've frequented for years already go under. There's only so much that people can 'care' before it becomes too emotionally exhausting, let alone financially draining.