The EU/Brexit vote and zoos
- Thread starter Lemurs
- Start date
Yesterday, I went to bed sure the UK will remain with us. And when I switched on my comp in the morning to quickly check weather forecast before I leave, I couldnt believe my eyes.
Right now, economic forecast says my country will lose around 0,75% of GDP this year because of brexit (that would translate in 20.000-40.000 more unemployed). And nobody knows what is to happen next years, some predict massive EU-wide recession, and that would be really bad for my small open country. So, thank you Brits.
On issue of the UK zoos, I think it might depend on their location. With falling libra and tanking economy, zoos in tourist locations might see a boost, by both UK tourists staying home and EU tourists using good exchange rate to visit. But zoos in less popular locations, or those heavily depending on donations/subsidies might get hit really hard.
I predict that the UK will go rather isolationist way. Imports of zoo animals from continent might become a nightmare (vet regulations will differ in the UK and continent). And also I guess we East-Europeans would need visa to visit, so I should hurry up with my dream of UK zoo trip.
Right now, economic forecast says my country will lose around 0,75% of GDP this year because of brexit (that would translate in 20.000-40.000 more unemployed). And nobody knows what is to happen next years, some predict massive EU-wide recession, and that would be really bad for my small open country. So, thank you Brits.
On issue of the UK zoos, I think it might depend on their location. With falling libra and tanking economy, zoos in tourist locations might see a boost, by both UK tourists staying home and EU tourists using good exchange rate to visit. But zoos in less popular locations, or those heavily depending on donations/subsidies might get hit really hard.
I predict that the UK will go rather isolationist way. Imports of zoo animals from continent might become a nightmare (vet regulations will differ in the UK and continent). And also I guess we East-Europeans would need visa to visit, so I should hurry up with my dream of UK zoo trip.
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
I heard that more than 80% of young voters in UK voted Remain in the EU, contrary to elderly voters who draw the destiny of UK outside EU, with more than 65% voting Leave the EU. Is this true? I guess those elderly voters remember how it was UK before EU and felt nostalgic?
73% of 18-24 year olds voted to remain, and 60% of 65+ voted to leave.
For further breakdowns, see: EU referendum: The result in maps and charts - BBC News
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
Thank you Giant Panda.
Maybe in near future (like in 5-10 years, UK again will join the EU). - Brentry
taun
Well-Known Member
Its not that easy Bongorob
I feel for the younger generation who did not want this, they came out and voted and now have to live with this.
Yes it could be a good and it could be a terrible thing, but the key thing here is that this is forever, not like the government changing a policy seeing it doesn't work and changing it back.
Grass is not always greener on the other side.
The Leave vote may have been a majority, but not a big one, and not the landslide some out there are making out it was. Leave had 17,410,742 votes (51.9%), Remain had 16,141,241 votes (48.1%). That is a difference of just 1,269,501.
That is true. At the moment it seems the UK is a hopelessly divided nation setting urban vs countryside, City versus industrial heartland, socio-economic elite vs disenfranchised poor and dispossessed and even with remarkable differences regionally. The traditional parties seem to have been left to their devices by the electorate.
One question: truthfully were all people in the British Isles allowed to vote in this referendum or have there been exclusions?
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
Is it possible second referendum, with greater turnout, eg. higher percent of younger population to vote.
In several countires voting is obligatory, like in Australia, because everyone should decide for future of it's own country for such big things.
In several countires voting is obligatory, like in Australia, because everyone should decide for future of it's own country for such big things.
Panthera Puss
Well-Known Member
I haven't posted for a long time, just some generalised thoughts:
The recession of 2008 definitely had a huge negative impact on the zoo I was attached to at the time. The 'Staycation' is for the large part more expensive than going abroad in my experience.
Older voters always turn out in larger numbers in the UK and for the larger part vote conservatively (i.e. Leave in this context).
Losing the influence of the EU is a potential disaster for zoos and conservation. The 1992 EU directive on zoos arguably dragged UK zoos out of the dark ages.
Ironic (and so fitting somehow) that an argument between two Eton boys has potentially destroyed the UK and the EU and sent us spiralling back into the good old days of pan-European war. David Cameron took the biggest chance in history and failed his country - that's how I feel now.
As a primary school kid in 1972 I remember our headmistress telling the school how we had joined the Common Market and how proud I felt to be part of something bigger than my home village and even my country. It's so strange to lose this after all these years.
'Sweet moderation, heart of this nation, never desert us'. Amen and good luck
The recession of 2008 definitely had a huge negative impact on the zoo I was attached to at the time. The 'Staycation' is for the large part more expensive than going abroad in my experience.
Older voters always turn out in larger numbers in the UK and for the larger part vote conservatively (i.e. Leave in this context).
Losing the influence of the EU is a potential disaster for zoos and conservation. The 1992 EU directive on zoos arguably dragged UK zoos out of the dark ages.
Ironic (and so fitting somehow) that an argument between two Eton boys has potentially destroyed the UK and the EU and sent us spiralling back into the good old days of pan-European war. David Cameron took the biggest chance in history and failed his country - that's how I feel now.
As a primary school kid in 1972 I remember our headmistress telling the school how we had joined the Common Market and how proud I felt to be part of something bigger than my home village and even my country. It's so strange to lose this after all these years.
'Sweet moderation, heart of this nation, never desert us'. Amen and good luck
One of the few comments relating to the title of the thread, rather than the bigger political ramifications.
I too am wondering what effect this result will have on our Zoos. Will they still be part of EEP breeding programmes for example? How will it affect the movement of animals between Zoos in Europe and the UK which is nowadays commonplace. Will it now become less common/more difficult? Will the standard of our Zoos be negatively affected in any other ways also?
I dont think it will come to this. You would need goverment to support it, but Cameron resigned already. And, the EU asked the UK to quickly start the process of leaving, in order to decrease unceirtainty and lessen negative economical/political impact on EU countries.
Brits succumbed to cheap populists promising to magically solve all their problems and make Britain great again. There is no easy quick way to sway the society in oposite direction, it takes years. Second referendum would end the same way as the first. Look at Slovakia, they voted for scumbak Mečiar and needed 4 years to realise what they have done. Or look at Hungary with Orban, corrupt crook, and still in office due to popular "Greater Hungary" and nationalistic sentiment. Or, as you are from Balkan, you maybe remember the speaches of ex-yugoslavian nationalistic leaders, you know, make Serbia great again.
All we can do is to arrange ourselves accordingly and let Brits to solve their demons themselves. I just pray there wont be too much explosions in Northern Ireland when old divisions will grow again.
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Remain and Scotland need to get a reality check the COUNTRY as voted and the end result is in and FINAL you can't have a second referendum because you lost all be it by a small majority but you still lost.
I didn't hear Labour ask for a second general election because the conservatives got in with the smallest majority of votes 24% (Labour 31%)
The main problem I can see is that the young voters unfortunately are stuck with the result like we were after the last referendum to join we have had to suffer since in the Midlands and in the North with our manufacturing heart destroyed by the EU and our goverments over the last 35 years.
Thursdays result was always on the cards with the heart of England more populated than most other area's so here's a suggestion just to keep the Remain people happy lets have a second referendum but exclude the midlands, the north, the over 40's then maybe you'll get the result you want.
I wonder what the result had been had they NOT extended the registration deadline?
I didn't hear Labour ask for a second general election because the conservatives got in with the smallest majority of votes 24% (Labour 31%)
The main problem I can see is that the young voters unfortunately are stuck with the result like we were after the last referendum to join we have had to suffer since in the Midlands and in the North with our manufacturing heart destroyed by the EU and our goverments over the last 35 years.
Thursdays result was always on the cards with the heart of England more populated than most other area's so here's a suggestion just to keep the Remain people happy lets have a second referendum but exclude the midlands, the north, the over 40's then maybe you'll get the result you want.
I wonder what the result had been had they NOT extended the registration deadline?
The big evil EU destroyed your heavy manufacturing? Does it mean, that now, when you are out of EU, your manufactuing will come back into these two regions? Why should it? Is your workforce cheaper then in China? Or, do you want to have lower wages and worse working conditions to outcompete the Chinese to attract manufacturing back?
This looks similar to our weakest regions (mining and heavy manufacturing specialised) that suffered greatly due to fall of Soviet empire and its markets in early 1990s and never fully recovered. And now even the remaining mines are being closed down due to very low international coal prices, people are even more angry and look for scapegoats. And so they vote hard-core communist and fashist parties, because they fondly remmember the boom during commies when they were young, and they blame gypsies too for their misery. But, if those parties would get majority in our parliament, do you think our country would be helped by it? How?
Think about EAZA. This organisation asks you to pay memberhip fee. It imposes its regulations and standarts on you. And it is possible your zoo haven´t voted for its president directly. Is EAZA undemocratic and oppresive? Should you leave it? Or is intensive cooperation too beneficial to accept it including its shortcomings too?
Unless you hadn't noticed, Scotland is a country in its own right, as is England, Wales and Northern Ireland. What voted on Thursday was the United Kingdom, a combined unity of those individual countries. At this rate though, the UK as a whole will have lost, both Leavers and Remainers, as Scotland is most likely heading for another Independence referendum which it will probably win this time. In all likelihood this will be followed by a referendum in NI, and they may rejoin Eire. The UK as a political entity may no longer exist in a few years
taun
Well-Known Member
Like comparing apples and oranges, the general election is not done the same way as the referendum.
Er...yes it is.
People go into a booth and put a cross on a voting form.
I do not see why some people are getting so agitated over the result of a vote.
The manufactoring industries in the Midlands and the North are lost for ever and will never return.
On the General Election point I did quote the amount of votes that were counted in full and not by the amount of MP's which I think was the same as the Referendum unless they changed it overnight.
We have to look forward and we can't do that overnight we have to work on it together as a nation, as one person put it this morning they will now be leaving to go somewhere else in Europe I wonder how many more people feel like this.
I currently don't know how I feel but it does make feel better to read and see people acting like babies throwing there's toys out the pram because the vote didn't go there way.
Even the Prime Minister has done it.
Let's stop bickering and thinking of ourselves (me included) and just wait and see what happens over the next 5 years it may be better or it may be worse but until then lets get back to the idea of this thread and what now for UK zoological collections and how it will affect them.
On the General Election point I did quote the amount of votes that were counted in full and not by the amount of MP's which I think was the same as the Referendum unless they changed it overnight.
We have to look forward and we can't do that overnight we have to work on it together as a nation, as one person put it this morning they will now be leaving to go somewhere else in Europe I wonder how many more people feel like this.
I currently don't know how I feel but it does make feel better to read and see people acting like babies throwing there's toys out the pram because the vote didn't go there way.
Even the Prime Minister has done it.
Let's stop bickering and thinking of ourselves (me included) and just wait and see what happens over the next 5 years it may be better or it may be worse but until then lets get back to the idea of this thread and what now for UK zoological collections and how it will affect them.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
i think the most telling thing is that the biggest indicator of a propensity to vote 'leave' was a lack of university education: the more educated you are, the more likely you were to believe the UK should remain in the EU. This ties in with the age thing: fewer people over 65 went to university, so fewer voted to stay. And while I am sure there are honourable exceptions, only ignorance can explain the decision to vote in favour of the exit - especially when those areas which benefit the most from EU membership were amongst the most enthusiastic 'leavers'.
It shouldn't have any impact, should it? Switzerland, not a member of the EU, has zoos that are keen EEP participants.
Might the vote impact up our uptake of the invasive species legislation, which will make it illegal to keep wallabies, coatis and raccoons (amongst many others)? An interesting recent piece in Zoo Grapevine suggested that the implementation of this law was very much a reflection of British, rather than EU, desires - on the continent things were being handled very differently. So even this potential silver lining might not exist....