Thank you for the explanation. There is a similar problem in the UK but it tends to be in specific areas of the hospitality industry and not the "pool" within which zoo catering operates.
The EU/Brexit vote and zoos
- Thread starter Lemurs
- Start date
Thank you for the explanation. There is a similar problem in the UK but it tends to be in specific areas of the hospitality industry and not the "pool" within which zoo catering operates.
{Note from mods - the following posts have been split from here: Twycross Zoo - Twycross Zoo News 2019}
However, it remains to be seen ... what fall-out the coming Brexit will give us and how this will affect EEP / EAZA breeding programs.
Good in the sense a new holder has been found.
However, it remains to be seen ... what fall-out the coming Brexit will give us and how this will affect EEP / EAZA breeding programs.
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Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
As there are a number of EAZA members and other EEP participants in countries already outside the EU, it wont make the slightest difference - unless of course some kind of specific changes are imposed to penalise the UK for daring to 'break the rules'. None of the current programmes (and indeed the EU itself) can continue to operate in their current form without such a major contributor, so again this just shows it will be business-as-usual. Any suggestions otherwise are simply part of the continuous scare-mongering aimed squarely at forcing the UK Government to ignore the will of the UK people, and back down from the result of the referendum.
Nothing to do with transport of animals and documentation etc but......, an example of UK collections accessing EU funding for the good. Can the Tory government guarantee projects like this get support after next month?
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, indeed - one example. It would be very interesting to know exactly how much has actually flowed back, and which projects received such (as you list projects in plural) - compared to the amount we all pay in, day-in day-out. I would guess that most of the hundreds of UK zoos would prefer to keep their contributions and spend the funds themselves.
It is also interesting that an 'Agricultural Fund' is the source of the partial funding, when in the UK zoos specifically fall totally outside agriculture, are not included in agriculture when covered by local UK or EU legislation or UK planning law; require 'change-of-use' from agriculture for their land to operate; pay different rates and taxes compared to agriculture; cannot tax their vehicles/tractors/machinery as agricultural - the list is pretty much endless...
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
As this has now been moved to the 'Brexit vote' category, I hesitate to comment on TB in case it is moved again... although I guess regular users will be more au fait with the rules.
Given that - I do not know the full detail about Paignton, but from what I have read the restrictions placed on them seem to prevent the movement of mammals both out of the collection, and also into it? This certainly seems to be inferred by those who comment on the dwindling mammal collection. If this assumption is correct and movement of mammals in, is also forbidden - then yes, this situation is different from an outbreak of TB on a farm. Positive results in an agricultural situation result in compulsory slaughter of the positive animals and close-down on exports from the farm until a number of clear tests have been recorded. Imports into the herd are still permitted, though of course they then become 'co-terminus' and subject to the same restrictions as the residents. Had this agricultural position been enforced at Paignton, they would still have been able to import into the collection.
Compulsory slaughter of animals in a farm situation as a result of Government policy, attracts Government paid compensation at 'market value', raised through taxation and therefore paid by all of us. I suppose Paignton can confirm if this is the case for zoos too; although from what I have been told, it is not. So - an animal compulsory slaughtered on a farm receives full compensation to the owner, but the same spp in a zoo does not - yet another example of the difference between the two...
We all worry about what will happen after March 29th but with all the project fear that is going on all we can do is wait and see as nothing as been agreed by any organisation as what will happen so keep the faith and wait and see.
I think this is broadly accurate. While there will no doubt be some inconveniences, transfers of animals between EAZA institutions as high up the list of challenges facing UK Zoos after Brexit as their coverage in this thread would seem to suggest.
Separately, but relevant to the wider discussion of Brexit/Zoos, I noted today that Blue Planet Aquarium in Cheshire have taken delivery of 24 tonnes of salt from France, with the press release (on their Facebook page) noting that they have hired 'extra facility to stock up on supplies pre-Brexit'. People can blame 'Project Fear' as much as they want, but what happens this month is still a source of significant concern for many UK collections...
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29th March is only an estimate at present!
I can't see the EU agreeing to an extension now as they have already stated it's too late
I was recently in Europe (changing planes in London Heathrow) and saw newspapers in the airports with headlines about Brexit and British Parliament turmoil. The only good thing about this for me as an American is it takes my mind off the fact that my country has (how shall I put this) an "eccentric" president! 
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I was recently in Europe (changing planes in London Heathrow) and saw newspapers in the airports with headlines about Brexit and British Parliament turmoil. The only good thing about this for me as an American is it takes my mind off the fact that my country has (how shall I put this) an "eccentric" president!
'...Parliament turmoil...' is a perfect summary. Britain does not have a history of referendums, or having a system in place to deal withe the results. We now have a situation where a free vote with the largest turnout in modern times, produced a result which the Government did not want, had no plans for, and the majority of UK MPs disagree with. As a result of its own arrogance the resulting UK Government now has no majority, and is negotiating in Europe with a remote, elitist and vindictive European Parliament set to punish the UK public for making the 'wrong' decision as an example to those in other countries not to do the same. Meanwhile the on-going and deepening political and financial problems in other European countries worsen, but for the moment are eclipsed by Brexit to the relief of European politicians.
However 'eccentric' your President, at least your wallet contains dollars...!
I don't really want to start a debate on Brexit (plenty of them elsewhere on the interweb) but worth pointing out that those EEP participants outside the EU will have their own agreements with the EU on the relevant issues (e.g. health, welfare standards, customs documentation). The UK has still to negotiate any such agreements - if/when we leave with No Deal (which, potentially, is just 22 days away) there will be no agreements in place.
I had said I wouldn't prod the fire of Brexit, but ... just on a point of accuracy, the UK government is negotiating with the European Commission, not the European Parliament.
We are all entitled to our own opinions. But we are not entitled to our own facts.
Worth noting there are two imminent transfers of Apes between the UK and Europe.
1. A young Orangutan from Krefeld to Monkey World( see Monkeyworld thread)- in the write-up Krefeld actually says the move is being made this month to avoid any bureaucratic complications after the cut-off date.
2. Young male gorilla from Jersey to Paira Daiza, Belgium. Move date 23rd March- may have been scheduled for then for a similar reason, or at least partly? .
Am I the only person who detests that stupid word 'backstop'...?
1. A young Orangutan from Krefeld to Monkey World( see Monkeyworld thread)- in the write-up Krefeld actually says the move is being made this month to avoid any bureaucratic complications after the cut-off date.
2. Young male gorilla from Jersey to Paira Daiza, Belgium. Move date 23rd March- may have been scheduled for then for a similar reason, or at least partly? .
Am I the only person who detests that stupid word 'backstop'...?
I don't know what your wallet contains, but I still have £5, £10 and £20 notes in mine.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I am certain that they wont. There will be no agreement between these parties. Any agreements will be at Government level (CITES and Animal Health Departments) and not between individual participants and the EU