The Future of Zoos Victoria 2024 (Speculation/Fantasy)

On a related note, in my opinion an Indian theme is something that ZV should seriously explore:

Firstly, ZV already have several Indian species:

Elephants
Tigers (I know they aren’t Bengal tigers but they are still tigers)
Snow Leopards
Red Pandas
Blackbuck
Otters

Then there are others that would be so easy to get from other Australian facilities:

Axis Deer
Hog Deer
Himalayan Tahr
Leopard (Sri Lankan subspecies)

There are others that could easily be imported from overseas:

Common Langur
Rhesus Macaque
Himalayan Black Bear
Indian Rhino
Sloth Bear
Lion Tailed Macaque

The beauty of this is that most of these species (with the exception of elephants) could be displayed at both MZ and WORZ - even at Kyabram. A breeding group at one zoo and surplus males at another.

Of course there are also valid sensible reasons against a major Indian theme too - but I personally think it would be a great idea.
 
Grant Rhino said:
On a related note, in my opinion an Indian theme is something that ZV should seriously explore:

Firstly, ZV already have several Indian species:

Elephants
Tigers (I know they aren’t Bengal tigers but they are still tigers)
Snow Leopards
Red Pandas
Blackbuck
Otters

Then there are others that would be so easy to get from other Australian facilities:

Axis Deer
Hog Deer
Himalayan Tahr
Leopard (Sri Lankan subspecies)

There are others that could easily be imported from overseas:

Common Langur
Rhesus Macaque
Himalayan Black Bear
Indian Rhino
Sloth Bear
Lion Tailed Macaque

The beauty of this is that most of these species (with the exception of elephants) could be displayed at both MZ and WORZ - even at Kyabram. A breeding group at one zoo and surplus males at another.

Of course there are also valid sensible reasons against a major Indian theme too - but I personally think it would be a great idea.
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I’d love to see one of our open range zoos diversify to an Asian theming. We simply don’t have the availability of African species overseas zoos have e.g. Secretary bird, Greater flamingo, Ratel etc.

Sloth bears are my preferred replacement for Malayan sun bears. They breed well and would do greater in an open range zoo, where a large habitat would allow several bears to be on exhibit at once.
 
Grant Rhino said:
I think there is zero chance of them getting any Indian primates. I don’t think an Indian theme is on their radar at all.

I’m actually a volunteer at WORZ and thus I do hear things. The only primates ever been mentioned by anyone of note are colobus and hamadryas baboons - nothing definite though.
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Has there been anything mentioned to cohabit with the elephants that you know of? Also, about a year ago you said there was a large creature you could definitively rule out as a replacement for the elephants, are you able to reveal that yet?
 
Grant Rhino said:
Surely blackbuck and axis deer are the easiest and most natural choice: they live together with elephants in many major national parks in India, and have been displayed together in the past at both MZ and WORZ and both are very easy to get. It’s a no brainer to me.

If we do get Indian rhino in, then a good choice would be hog deer - again easy to get, and they are the common deer species in Kaziranga National Park in Eastern India - the main stronghold of Indian rhinos.

I guess the major reluctance to obtaining these common Indian species (along with common langur and rhesus macaque) is that none are endangered.

However if you want an Indian theme, well these are the species you’re likely to see in Indian national parks.
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I have seen in the past Hog deer living in among the Indian Rhinos at the Toronto zoo so yes a good choice.
 
Jambo said:
Interesting to hear; hopefully you'll be able to confirm then. I heard Rhinos have pretty much been ruled out, so there's certainly a possibility another large species has been too.
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All I can think of (without really outside the square like white rhinoceros) is Nilgai. They may be held in private hands within Australia. Blackbuck will apparently inhabit the complex, but they’re not large.
 
Just on Indian Rhino:

I've never heard anything about Indian rhino being ruled out.

But I've also never heard anything about Indian rhino ever being considered in the first place.

I think the whole idea of Indian rhino replacing the elephants is something being discussed here on Zoochat (and I agree with it personally myself).

However, while it's being discussed a lot here on Zoochat, I've never once heard anything about it at the actual zoo itself.

Generally, what gets discussed on Zoochat and what gets discussed at zoos by the people there are 2 completely different things:

On Zoochat people talk a lot about taxonomy and about the future (ie what species a zoo might or might not bring in).

In an actual zoo, people (staff, keepers, volunteers etc) very rarely talk about that (if at all). The talk inside a zoo is almost always about the present (ie about what species a zoo does have rather than what it might have one day).

On this forum we are all Zoo nerds (to some degree or another) whereas most people who work or volunteer in a zoo aren't zoo nerds. It's a very different environment to Zoochat and I think a lot of Zoochatters would be surprised by what it's like.
 
Grant Rhino said:
Just on Indian Rhino:

I've never heard anything about Indian rhino being ruled out.

But I've also never heard anything about Indian rhino ever being considered in the first place.

I think the whole idea of Indian rhino replacing the elephants is something being discussed here on Zoochat (and I agree with it personally myself).

However, while it's being discussed a lot here on Zoochat, I've never once heard anything about it at the actual zoo itself.

Generally, what gets discussed on Zoochat and what gets discussed at zoos by the people there are 2 completely different things:

On Zoochat people talk a lot about taxonomy and about the future (ie what species a zoo might or might not bring in).

In an actual zoo, people (staff, keepers, volunteers etc) very rarely talk about that (if at all). The talk inside a zoo is almost always about the present (ie about what species a zoo does have rather than what it might have one day).

On this forum we are all Zoo nerds (to some degree or another) whereas most people who work or volunteer in a zoo aren't zoo nerds. It's a very different environment to Zoochat and I think a lot of Zoochatters would be surprised by what it's like.
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Yeah, definitely do agree with what you have to say. I've had plenty of conversations with keepers and volunteers over the years and can advocate to the notion that future plans (especially within Zoos Vic) are kept very hush hush by senior management. Not unexpected when you consider plans especially within this industry constantly change. I do applaud zoos that do share future initiatives (like Zoos SA), but do understand why some organisations tend no to.

Re. the Indian Rhinos, I had a conversation with an elephant keeper a few years back and he did say that he doubted Indian Rhinos would be a replacement for the elephants when I asked him about them specifically. Obviously he isn't the one making those decisions, and this was a while ago (things change) but I myself would also agree with his take on IR at Melbourne.
 
Grant Rhino said:
Just on Indian Rhino:

I've never heard anything about Indian rhino being ruled out.

But I've also never heard anything about Indian rhino ever being considered in the first place.

I think the whole idea of Indian rhino replacing the elephants is something being discussed here on Zoochat (and I agree with it personally myself).

However, while it's being discussed a lot here on Zoochat, I've never once heard anything about it at the actual zoo itself.

Generally, what gets discussed on Zoochat and what gets discussed at zoos by the people there are 2 completely different things:

On Zoochat people talk a lot about taxonomy and about the future (ie what species a zoo might or might not bring in).

In an actual zoo, people (staff, keepers, volunteers etc) very rarely talk about that (if at all). The talk inside a zoo is almost always about the present (ie about what species a zoo does have rather than what it might have one day).

On this forum we are all Zoo nerds (to some degree or another) whereas most people who work or volunteer in a zoo aren't zoo nerds. It's a very different environment to Zoochat and I think a lot of Zoochatters would be surprised by what it's like.
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Totally agree, so much here is just speculation.
 
Jambo said:
Yeah, definitely do agree with what you have to say. I've had plenty of conversations with keepers and volunteers over the years and can advocate to the notion that future plans (especially within Zoos Vic) are kept very hush hush by senior management. Not unexpected when you consider plans especially within this industry constantly change. I do applaud zoos that do share future initiatives (like Zoos SA), but do understand why some organisations tend no to.
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I don't think it's a "hush hush" thing - or even an intentional thing.

I think it's more that this stuff just doesn't really interest people that much at ZV. It's just not the sort of thing that really gets talked about in that particular place. It's like some circles, people talk about sport or music or politics and other things a lot more than in other circles. I think it's just not a topic of conversation that is particularly normal amongst ZV people. They talk more about what is there already - it's more "in the moment" so to speak rather than the future.
 
Grant Rhino said:
I don't think it's a "hush hush" thing - or even an intentional thing.

I think it's more that this stuff just doesn't really interest people that much at ZV. It's just not the sort of thing that really gets talked about in that particular place. It's like some circles, people talk about sport or music or politics and other things a lot more than in other circles. I think it's just not a topic of conversation that is particularly normal amongst ZV people. They talk more about what is there already - it's more "in the moment" so to speak rather than the future.
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Probably, and fair enough honestly.

I've come across some keepers who have no idea about anything and others that do seem have to some sort of grasp on the zoos future direction, so I guess it could also come down to circles (who they know and interact with, and what interests them). Funnily enough I've actually chatted to a few of the volunteers about sport too, so it's not always about the zoo itself! :p
 
Grant Rhino said:
I don't think it's a "hush hush" thing - or even an intentional thing.

I think it's more that this stuff just doesn't really interest people that much at ZV. It's just not the sort of thing that really gets talked about in that particular place. It's like some circles, people talk about sport or music or politics and other things a lot more than in other circles. I think it's just not a topic of conversation that is particularly normal amongst ZV people. They talk more about what is there already - it's more "in the moment" so to speak rather than the future.
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Jambo said:
Probably, and fair enough honestly.

I've come across some keepers who have no idea about anything and others that do seem have to some sort of grasp on the zoos future direction, so I guess it could also come down to circles (who they know and interact with, and what interests them). Funnily enough I've actually chatted to a few of the volunteers about sport too, so it's not always about the zoo itself! :p
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Zoos Victoria’s volunteers (or at least the ones I spoke to) were very knowledgeable compared to the volunteers I’ve spoken to at other zoos; but I would have to agree that their knowledge was solely confined to the here and now and that none of them were able to answer questions regarding the future of Melbourne or Werribee.

As mentioned by @Grant Rhino this is likely due to a lack of interest from the general public in these matters, meaning knowing this information is of little use to them in these roles. To a lesser extent we can attribute it to them being one of the lowest on the information chain.
 
Jambo said:
Re. the Indian Rhinos, I had a conversation with an elephant keeper a few years back and he did say that he doubted Indian Rhinos would be a replacement for the elephants when I asked him about them specifically. Obviously he isn't the one making those decisions, and this was a while ago (things change) but I myself would also agree with his take on IR at Melbourne.
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I would agree Indian rhinoceros are unlikely for Melbourne Zoo. I recall a lot of speculation on here revolving around an expectation the elephants would be replaced by something big enough to rival them in crowd-pulling factor and after discounting more dramatic ideas like Giant panda, Indian rhinoceros seemed the best fit.

I would imagine Werribee would be seen as the site for IR however given that they’re large ungulates and an expectation Melbourne are now expanding their orangutan facilities.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Zoos Victoria’s volunteers (or at least the ones I spoke to) were very knowledgeable compared to the volunteers I’ve spoken to at other zoos; but I would have to agree that their knowledge was solely confined to the here and now and that none of them were able to answer questions regarding the future of Melbourne or Werribee.

As mentioned by @Grant Rhino this is likely due to a lack of interest from the general public in these matters, meaning knowing this information is of little use to them in these roles. To a lesser extent we can attribute it to them being one of the lowest on the information chain.
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Actually volunteers are told quite a lot - but it’s such a busy place that the here and now is front of mind.

Behind the scenes in a zoo (particularly a big one) is not only a very busy place but also an ‘in the moment’ place. There is always something happening every day and it’s usually not something anyone expects. In that environment everyone really just lives/works in the moment.

Obviously future planning happens but it’s just so far from any focus as there are so many other more urgent things to be doing or keeping in mind on any given day.

When something is confirmed though we are usually told fairly quickly. For instance we knew about the nyala at least two years before they arrived.
 
Grant Rhino said:
When something is confirmed though we are usually told fairly quickly. For instance we knew about the nyala at least two years before they arrived.
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This is certainly the case - I've been advised of an array of things by volunteers over the years (prior to their occurrence). Ongard's move to Miami springs to mind, this was something most zoo staff and regulars were aware of for months prior to his departure.

So I guess it can really depend. A lot of factors do go into these sort of things.
 
Grant Rhino said:
Actually volunteers are told quite a lot - but it’s such a busy place that the here and now is front of mind.

Behind the scenes in a zoo (particularly a big one) is not only a very busy place but also an ‘in the moment’ place. There is always something happening every day and it’s usually not something anyone expects. In that environment everyone really just lives/works in the moment.

Obviously future planning happens but it’s just so far from any focus as there are so many other more urgent things to be doing or keeping in mind on any given day.

When something is confirmed though we are usually told fairly quickly. For instance we knew about the nyala at least two years before they arrived.
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I also know that often staff (and volunteers) are aware of information, but aren’t allowed to share it (or have restrictions on what they can share). In one example I noticed a pregnant animal at a zoo and was told upon asking I was the first person who’d noticed. They were allowed to confirm what I’d seen; but weren’t otherwise announcing it.
 
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