Chester Zoo The Islands development - planning, development and build (2012-2015)
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I have to agree that the increase in vistor numbers can be handled by the zoo. I personally hope the zoo hits 2 million visitors at some point as it will mean the zoo is doing well. Sure there will be busy days, but that will tend to be set times of the year. I'm sure the zoo will still have quiet off-peak times in which us members can enjoy the zoo without it being too busy, but in my mind a busy zoo = more income = quicker/easier development of the Natural Vision Plans, which in my eyes is only a good thing.
But at what cost? It'll become a miserable experience for many and not just from a catering standpoint; I personally wouldn't want to walk through RotRA, Islands in Danger, Spirit of the Jaguar or queue by the meerkat viewing window with >20K others.
As for quiet times, it's only March, the zoo is inexplicably hectic and many of the staff look shattered. As previously mentioned one of the HoA goals was to even out visitor numbers across the year, so the precious quiet moments might be on the decline. That said, those figures were also accompanied by projections of a reduction in visitor numbers post 2009, all of which were totally unfounded.
More visitors does mean more income (not all of which goes on conservation projects, some is totally squandered) but there has to be a cut-off point where excessive crowds mean going to the zoo is no longer a pleasurable experience. I'd hate for it to get that way.
For me, the number 1 criteria with this development is that they construct exhibits and facilities with large crowd capacities in mind. That means:
1) Large window area/field of view on the exhibits.
2) sufficiently wide pathways to allow smooth flow of guests without feeling a sense of harassment to 'move along', a row of benches separating the viewing area from the pathway is a great tool to aid guest flow.
3) multiple floors of viewing would be fantastic(especially for photographers), like Barcelona & San Diego zoos elevated walkways.
4) Take a look at some of the US zoos solutions to some of these problems, wide and airy is much more pleasant than narrow and claustrophobic.
Realm of the Red Ape is an example of an exhibit that can be truly miserable as a visitor on a busy day with so few windows and such narrow and constricted corridors. If UK zoos want to move up a league in visitor numbers they need to ensure their exhibits are a pleasant and relaxing place to be for guests.
I don't believe it is ever acceptable to have to queue to view an exhibit.
1) Large window area/field of view on the exhibits.
2) sufficiently wide pathways to allow smooth flow of guests without feeling a sense of harassment to 'move along', a row of benches separating the viewing area from the pathway is a great tool to aid guest flow.
3) multiple floors of viewing would be fantastic(especially for photographers), like Barcelona & San Diego zoos elevated walkways.
4) Take a look at some of the US zoos solutions to some of these problems, wide and airy is much more pleasant than narrow and claustrophobic.
Realm of the Red Ape is an example of an exhibit that can be truly miserable as a visitor on a busy day with so few windows and such narrow and constricted corridors. If UK zoos want to move up a league in visitor numbers they need to ensure their exhibits are a pleasant and relaxing place to be for guests.
I don't believe it is ever acceptable to have to queue to view an exhibit.
It is only March, but the last weekend has had a mixture of an adopters day and quite nice weather for the time of the year. Last Saturday was the first truly busy day I've seen this year. As for weekends prior to that [except half term with the new exhibits] I have been able to go into the houses at peak times and be one of a very small handful of visitors.
At the end of the day we're both members of the zoo - that means we can go again and again throughout the year. If I only see half the zoo because crowds are large, then I'll just see the other half another day. I personally think we won't notice the crowds increase from what they are now, as has been said by the time the zoo has the extra visitors they may have 1 or maybe even 2 [depending on how successful Islands is, and what the next project is] on undeveloped land - in short the zoo is growing in size to accomodate the visitors.
Pootle
Well-Known Member
I have been a member since Christmas and it does make a huge difference to me on how I view the place now than I did previously. Before I paid for the annual membership I think I visited the zoo roughly eight times in the previous five years. When you are paying for a days entry you want to see it all that very day and like it or not you become part of the crowd yourself. Since having the membership I have been six times since the beginning of January and I have seen the place in a different way to before. I posted on here maybe twelve months ago that I found the zoo to be slightly claustrophobic and everything felt as though it was cramped in tightly. However, now as a member I choose when I go and when I leave, my view on the place has changed quite a lot. One or two hour zoo visits are an option at opening and at closing times, If something is particularly busy ie RotRA (it really does get full quite quickly I’m sure most of you know), I just don’t go in knowing there will be another time soon, I spend much longer viewing the ‘less popular exhibits’ which are often very quiet. I enjoy Chester Zoo a lot more than I did previously it is fair to say (I accept it is only mid March so the real crowds haven’t arrived!). However if visitor numbers continue to increase as people predict then I really do sympathise with the people who have been members for years and years as I too know from experience it is annoying. More visitors obviously equals more money for development, but if it takes some of the enjoyment away due to very busy crowds then I would not want more visitors. If you are queuing for drinks, queuing for exhibits, or having to shuffle yourself along in a busy area rather than being able to stop and view at leisure then what enjoyment is there in that? I certainly wouldn't want more people coming, who in their right mind would?
Envisage a person who is either fairly or very enthusiastic on zoos coming to the UK and visiting Chester for their first time and all they seem to do all day is queue or try to peer around bodies to see animals and waste ‘zoo time’ again queuing for a drink or some food, they would go away thinking it wasn’t too good I would imagine.
Envisage a person who is either fairly or very enthusiastic on zoos coming to the UK and visiting Chester for their first time and all they seem to do all day is queue or try to peer around bodies to see animals and waste ‘zoo time’ again queuing for a drink or some food, they would go away thinking it wasn’t too good I would imagine.
I don't really see the catering side of the zoo too much as 9 times out of 10 I have my own packed lunch [I'm a fussy eater, and I can eat what I want whilst walking around] - If I know it'll be a quiet day and I'll have time, then sometimes I will buy food in the cafe.
The biggest problem is the time at exhibits, but members are just as guilty of 'hogging' exhibit viewing space as general visitors are [whereas I've seen members watching something for much longer, after all general vistors have paid a fair amount to get in if a typical family, so they'll want to keep moving and see as much as possible. We just need to learn to have a touch of patience
From my experience, a family will walk away from the exhibit after a few minutes. Of course there are the odd exceptions, but whilst crowds move painfully slowly in narrower parts they DO move.
adrian1963
Well-Known Member
I would love to see the Islands bring in more visitors to the UK’s number one zoo but I would like to add a note on the people saying it would bring in more money for the zoo.
First of all they would probably have a loan to have the Islands project built thus having to make repayments on the loan, and then they would have to employ more people to look after the increase in the visitor numbers.
Then they would have to improve the facilities (toilets, first aid area) and the running costs of the day to day things would also increase.
Then you have the more serious one improvements for the disabled making the Islands Project accessible for the disabled plus bringing other facilities up to date for the disabled making the pathways wide enough to take one wheelchair and allow 2 people to pass at the side without causing a queue, more ramps not steps more disabled toilets, more baby changing rooms shall I go on.
Then you would have the food facilities they would need more room for food outlets or picnic area’s more lighting, more heating, more water supplies, more parking bigger entrance area the list goes on.
As someone else has already said some of the big zoos around the world have visitor numbers of 2m and look at what they have achieved with the money they make, there is one thing missing from that what are the outlays of the other zoos as people I have spoke to say the UK zoos have the biggest outlay in the world.
So an increase in visitors does not mean a lot more money it just means there may be more money, I am just being realistic but I hope all goes well and Chester make this a roaring success.
First of all they would probably have a loan to have the Islands project built thus having to make repayments on the loan, and then they would have to employ more people to look after the increase in the visitor numbers.
Then they would have to improve the facilities (toilets, first aid area) and the running costs of the day to day things would also increase.
Then you have the more serious one improvements for the disabled making the Islands Project accessible for the disabled plus bringing other facilities up to date for the disabled making the pathways wide enough to take one wheelchair and allow 2 people to pass at the side without causing a queue, more ramps not steps more disabled toilets, more baby changing rooms shall I go on.
Then you would have the food facilities they would need more room for food outlets or picnic area’s more lighting, more heating, more water supplies, more parking bigger entrance area the list goes on.
As someone else has already said some of the big zoos around the world have visitor numbers of 2m and look at what they have achieved with the money they make, there is one thing missing from that what are the outlays of the other zoos as people I have spoke to say the UK zoos have the biggest outlay in the world.
So an increase in visitors does not mean a lot more money it just means there may be more money, I am just being realistic but I hope all goes well and Chester make this a roaring success.
mazfc
Well-Known Member
I don't really see the catering side of the zoo too much as 9 times out of 10 I have my own packed lunch [I'm a fussy eater, and I can eat what I want whilst walking around] - If I know it'll be a quiet day and I'll have time, then sometimes I will buy food in the cafe.
The biggest problem is the time at exhibits, but members are just as guilty of 'hogging' exhibit viewing space as general visitors are [whereas I've seen members watching something for much longer, after all general vistors have paid a fair amount to get in if a typical family, so they'll want to keep moving and see as much as possible. We just need to learn to have a touch of patience
From my experience, a family will walk away from the exhibit after a few minutes. Of course there are the odd exceptions, but whilst crowds move painfully slowly in narrower parts they DO move.
Crowding can definitely be a factor to repeat visits. During my first visit to Chester zoo a few years ago, the crowd at the RotRa was about 7 deep at the windows (and this after queuing to get in with a small child!). Several other exhibits were the same as well. It really put me off and I didnt return for a couple of years, and then only after a fellow zoo chatter had told me about their trips to Chester. To be honest I wouldn't have gone back at all if I hadn't had not wanted to miss out on a day out with friends.
It was a totally different experience off peak and I've loved it ever since. But I wonder how many others never went back?
An excellent posting. Restricted space for actually looking at the ****** animals has been a failure of several recent Chester developments/ redevelopments - Orangs, Jaguars, Elephants .....
I do tend to agree about the restricted space, larger viewing areas would mean a quicker flow through as well as providing space for those people to 'linger' a little longer if they want.
As has been said previously "sufficiently wide pathways to allow smooth flow of guests" is a real must for future exhibits. Certainly in the RofRA,I have seen 2 people both with double width pushchairs blocking the path on more than one occasion. In one case, the one was actually going around the wrong way! It is therefore clear that pathways must be wide enough to account for visitors who either can't read the signs or who think that signs don't apply to them. Either way allowing enough room to pass a particular point would be appreciated by all I am sure.
I'm relieved it isn't only me thats had a bad experience of ROTRA, as per my earlier post. Mine was last April on a members day when it was packed, but I dread to think what its like in the summer! They really should have provided better viewing of the back enclosure,those porthole windows are useless! I visited Twycross, Chester & Blackpool in the 3 days & although Chester is obviously a better zoo & has better orang accomodation I have to say it probably wasn't the best day of the 3 & I got to see the orangs far better at the other two.
This hasn't put me off & i'll be back this year,but I can see some people not returning if their experience matches ours!
That's a plan, but what if what you want to see is in a particular bottleneck, for example a baby elephant or orang?
I'm more concerned about those who only visit the zoo once, usually at the weekend and when the weather is set fair (and as a result the zoo is busy). These are the sort of people who'll have experiences such as those related by mazfc, and are unlikely to return as a result.
That over-simplifies the sitatuation because it depends on what is built and how it is presented. A vast elephant paddock could increase the zoo by 50% in terms of enclosure size, but the public wouldn't be in that area, they'd be confined to pathways that only represent a small increase in the area available to visitors, especially when said enclosure can only be viewed through a handful of windows.
I was in the Zoo on both Friday afternoon and Saturday last week . I was surprised that there a lot of people around on the Friday afternoon , though nothing like the crowds on the Saturday .
With a large member base I wonder how many of the weekday visitors are local members coming in to enjoy a walk on a pleasant day , rather than paying visitors .
I really enjoyed watching the giant otters , apparently showing off to the public in their indoor pool , but did think that not many people would be able to enjoy this experience at any one time .
With a large member base I wonder how many of the weekday visitors are local members coming in to enjoy a walk on a pleasant day , rather than paying visitors .
I really enjoyed watching the giant otters , apparently showing off to the public in their indoor pool , but did think that not many people would be able to enjoy this experience at any one time .
ChesterZooFan
Well-Known Member
It is a catch 22 situation. Chester want as many visitors as possible to fund future expansion but need to maintain a pleasant visitor experience. The whole Natural Vision project was based upon a significant increase in visitor numbers to pay for it all! I think it has been acknowledged by Zoo staff that Chester will struggle to cope with a big increase in numbers during peak season. However, the more the zoo introduces new exhibits the more people will explore these instead of focussing on just the 'big bottlenecks' (RoRA, Jags, Chimps etc). Painted dogs and related development has definitely taken a small amount of traffic to a different part of the zoo where some more guests stay a while at the food outlet and picnic table area etc. Chester could do a better job of managing large crowds though by encouraging guests to view certain exhibits at a different time. E.g. there are signs at Giant Otter encouraging viewing at the window at certain times. The same could be done at RoRA e.g. for better viewing visit before 11am or after 3pm etc.It is all about managing visitor expectation and I think staff or volunteers at the busiest exhibits could help to do this better. Some zoos provide a suggested itinerary to help manage traffic flow, whilst I know Chester had a very clear plan about managing this in the Natural Vision plans - by creating a 'one way' system based off a central wide pathway. For now though I have to admit I will only visit the zoo during the week when the families are at school/work!!
Bwassa
Well-Known Member
Our only bad experience has been in ROTRA. We went on the week it was opened. I think we actually missed the day it was officially opened, we went the day before. It was horrible.
We now only bother to go through ii the area has no school kids at the end of the day, if we happen to be in that area of the zoo. Obviously as the viewing public we only get to see less than 50% of the building as a whole. However the experience is awful, especially if it's a blisteringly hot day. It's the same with the Croc House at Paignton, another horrible exhibit for the visitor. Can't really imagine the animals are overly pleased with the little space they have either though.
We now only bother to go through ii the area has no school kids at the end of the day, if we happen to be in that area of the zoo. Obviously as the viewing public we only get to see less than 50% of the building as a whole. However the experience is awful, especially if it's a blisteringly hot day. It's the same with the Croc House at Paignton, another horrible exhibit for the visitor. Can't really imagine the animals are overly pleased with the little space they have either though.
Do you mean the orangs? You can't! I guess the Borneans are no worse or better off than they ever were but the Sumatrans have loads of space and freedom to use it as they choose.
The last sentence goes with the one to proceed it. The croc's at Paignton.
I'm sure the Orang's are now much happier with all the space they have. I never saw the zoo with the old Orang house. The wife visited in the mid 80's, however she doesn't really remember any specific's about the place.
I'm sure the Orang's are now much happier with all the space they have. I never saw the zoo with the old Orang house. The wife visited in the mid 80's, however she doesn't really remember any specific's about the place.
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